Why Jesus won't reign on this Earth for 1,000 years

[ewq1938]

Hi ewq,

`Hagios` can mean angel or saint, thus you need more proof. Sometimes it is used for angels and some times for saints. Who does Jesus say comes with Him at Armageddon?

Marilyn.

1Th 4:14 shows resurrected humans return with Jesus so they are the saints Paul also mentioned in the previous chapter.

G40
ἅγιος
hagios
Thayer Definition:
1) most holy thing, a saint
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from hagos (an awful thing) [compare G53, G2282]
Citing in TDNT: 1:88, 14

Which verse uses this word and it is an angel?

 

[Marilyn C]

1Th 4:14 shows resurrected humans return with Jesus so they are the saints Paul also mentioned in the previous chapter.

G40
ἅγιος
hagios
Thayer Definition:
1) most holy thing, a saint
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from hagos (an awful thing) [compare G53, G2282]
Citing in TDNT: 1:88, 14

Which verse uses this word and it is an angel?

Hi ewq,

Let`s look at the Greek word `hagios,` meaning an awful thing, sacred, pure, holy one.

There are many uses of that word - Holy Ghost, (Matt. 1: 20) Holy Place, (Matt 24: 15) Holy city, (Rev. 22: 11). So you see `hagios` has a variety of meanings. The context or other scriptures give the indication of what is meant.

And thus Jude 14 refers to Holy ones which are angels when we look further into God`s word. We go to Deut. 33: 2 and see these who came from Sinai, - ten thousands of holy ones. And David tells us who they are in Ps. 68: 17. They are the chariots of God, (angels) that went to Sinai.

Marilyn.

 

[ewq1938]

Hi ewq,

Let`s look at the Greek word `hagios,` meaning an awful thing, sacred, pure, holy one.

It in no way means "an awful thing". It's root word (hagos) means that not the word we are talking about.

There are many uses of that word - Holy Ghost, (Matt. 1: 20) Holy Place, (Matt 24: 15) Holy city, (Rev. 22: 11). So you see `hagios` has a variety of meanings. The context or other scriptures give the indication of what is meant.

And thus Jude 14 refers to Holy ones which are angels when we look further into God`s word. We go to Deut. 33: 2 and see these who came from Sinai, - ten thousands of holy ones. And David tells us who they are in Ps. 68: 17. They are the chariots of God, (angels) that went to Sinai.

Marilyn.

I am not seeing any provided scriptures where "hagios" is used to speak of an angel.

 

[JLB777]

Hi JLB,

The Body of Christ is destined for the very throne of the Lord, (Rev. 3: 21) and there we will judge the fallen angels and the world system. ( 1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) And that will be DURING the tribulation.

Marilyn.

We are getting no where.


You just keep stating your opinion, then tagging your opinion with a scripture reference.


Use scripture to make your point from the actual language of the verse.



JLB

 

[JLB777]

Hi JLB,

So are you telling me that the Lord will have His seat of power and authority over all of God`s great kingdom on His footstool?

`Heaven is my throne and earth is my footstool.` (Isa. 66: 1)

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-31


When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.


Jesus comes from heaven, where He is seated at the right hand of God, with his angels and His saints, to sit on His throne as King over all the earth.


Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.
Zechariah 14:5-9




JLB

 

[Marilyn C]

It in no way means "an awful thing". It's root word (hagos) means that not the word we are talking about.

I am not seeing any provided scriptures where "hagios" is used to speak of an angel.

Hi ewq,

The `Strong`s Concordance had that phrase. I showed you lots of scriptures & you can look up so many more under `holy` which shows you that the Greek word `hagios` is sacred, holy (one). You are saying it means `saint,` which would be ridiculous in so many scriptures.

There are many uses of that word - Holy Ghost, (Matt. 1: 20) Holy Place, (Matt 24: 15) Holy city, (Rev. 22: 11). So you see `hagios` has a variety of meanings. The context or other scriptures give the indication of what is meant.

And if you followed the line from Jude 14 to Deut. 33: 2 to Ps. 68:17 then you would see, as I wrote, that the tens of thousands are indeed ANGELS.

Again who does Jesus say comes with Him at Armageddon. (Not the rapture).

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

`

 

[Marilyn C]

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[Marilyn C]

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-31

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

Jesus comes from heaven, where He is seated at the right hand of God, with his angels and His saints, to sit on His throne as King over all the earth.

Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.
Zechariah 14:5-9
JLB

Hi JLB,

The word `throne,` means seat, and authority is implied. The Lord has many thrones in different parts of God`s great kingdom, and the throne of David on earth is one of them. However it is NOT the seat of His power and authority which is given of the Father and will be set up, visible in the third heaven.

The Lord does not get His authority from earth but from the Father in heaven. All `thrones,` will come under the Son`s rule, (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

Thus when the Lord comes at Armageddon with His holy angel army he will have the authority of His seat of power in the third heaven. That is why it is called the throne of His glory.

The Lord NEVER says He will come with His saints at that time, at Armageddon.

Marilyn.

 

[JLB777]

Hi JLB,

The word `throne,` means seat, and authority is implied. The Lord has many thrones in different parts of God`s great kingdom, and the throne of David on earth is one of them. However it is NOT the seat of His power and authority which is given of the Father and will be set up, visible in the third heaven.

The Lord does not get His authority from earth but from the Father in heaven. All `thrones,` will come under the Son`s rule, (1 Cor. 15: 24 & 25)

Thus when the Lord comes at Armageddon with His holy angel army he will have the authority of His seat of power in the third heaven. That is why it is called the throne of His glory.

The Lord NEVER says He will come with His saints at that time, at Armageddon.

Marilyn.

The Lord NEVER says He will come with His saints at that time, at Armageddon.

Sorry, you have completely ignored what the Lord said you n all these scriptures.



“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-31


When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.


Jesus comes from heaven, where He is seated at the right hand of God, with his angels and His saints, to sit on His throne as King over all the earth.


Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.
Zechariah 14:5-9




JLB

 

[ewq1938]

Hi ewq,

The `Strong`s Concordance had that phrase. I showed you lots of scriptures & you can look up so many more under `holy` which shows you that the Greek word `hagios` is sacred, holy (one). You are saying it means `saint,` which would be ridiculous in so many scriptures.

I'm saying it doesn't mean angel. You have yet to produce any evidence the term is used for an angel.

There are many uses of that word - Holy Ghost, (Matt. 1: 20) Holy Place, (Matt 24: 15) Holy city, (Rev. 22: 11). So you see `hagios` has a variety of meanings.

And none mean angel. I also want to make sure you no longer think the word means "an awful thing" since that is not part of the words definition but a different words definition.

And if you followed the line from Jude 14 to Deut. 33: 2 to Ps. 68:17 then you would see, as I wrote, that the tens of thousands are indeed ANGELS.

No, it's saints there which are people who died and who will resurrect and return with Christ. Angels will also be coming with Christ but the term saints is not for them.

Again who does Jesus say comes with Him at Armageddon. (Not the rapture).

Jesus comes with the saints and his angels.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

 

[Marilyn C]

Sorry, you have completely ignored what the Lord said you n all these scriptures.

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:31-31

When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

Jesus comes from heaven, where He is seated at the right hand of God, with his angels and His saints, to sit on His throne as King over all the earth.

Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
It shall be one day
Which is known to the Lord—
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.
And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
And the Lord shall be King over all the earth.
In that day it shall be—
“The Lord is one,”
And His name one.
Zechariah 14:5-9

JLB

Hi JLB,

Jesus only said that He would come with His Holy angels to execute judgment.

Zech. 14: 5 says `Quodos,`meaning Holy, sacred, place or thing.

Marilyn.

 

[Marilyn C]

I'm saying it doesn't mean angel. You have yet to produce any evidence the term is used for an angel.

And none mean angel. I also want to make sure you no longer think the word means "an awful thing" since that is not part of the words definition but a different words definition.

No, it's saints there which are people who died and who will resurrect and return with Christ. Angels will also be coming with Christ but the term saints is not for them.

Jesus comes with the saints and his angels.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Hi ewq,

The `called chosen and faithful,` are those of Israel who come through the tribulation.

Jesus ONLY says that His angels come with Him to bring judgment.

Marilyn.

 

[ewq1938]

Hi ewq,

The `called chosen and faithful,` are those of Israel who come through the tribulation.

Jesus ONLY says that His angels come with Him to bring judgment.

Scripture also shows that people that had died also come with him and are called the saints.

1Th_3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

 

[Marilyn C]

Scripture also shows that people that had died also come with him and are called the saints.

1Th_3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Hi ewq,

Yes the Lord will bring those who `sleep` in Him to join with the rest of the Body of Christ. This is when the Body coms to the maturity of faith and knowledge of the Lord. (Eph. 4: 13) We will then go with the Lord to His very own throne, (Rev. 3: 21) and judge fallen angels and the world system. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) Obviously that is BEFORE the trib, and BEFORE the Lord comes in great power and glory with His angelic army to deal with the rebellious.

Marilyn.

 

[ewq1938]

Hi ewq,

Yes the Lord will bring those who `sleep` in Him to join with the rest of the Body of Christ. This is when the Body coms to the maturity of faith and knowledge of the Lord. (Eph. 4: 13) We will then go with the Lord to His very own throne, (Rev. 3: 21) and judge fallen angels and the world system. (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) Obviously that is BEFORE the trib, and BEFORE the Lord comes in great power and glory with His angelic army to deal with the rebellious.

No, it is not before the trib and not before "the Lord comes in great power and glory with His angelic army to deal with the rebellious." Christ returns after the trib has ended with all the saints the resurrected, the living saints that were raptured, and his angels. All of them are there at Armageddon when the army of the beast is destroyed and when the FP and beast are cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Marilyn C]

.

Hi ewq,

Thank you for the discussion. And we wont have long to find out the truth.

Marilyn.

 

[Seville90210]

And we wont have long to find out the truth.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn

I think this is what you're looking for. Thought I speed up the process for you.

Michael (archangel) - Wikipedia

Saints in the bible refers to both humans and angels.

And if that doesn't work, you can always go to Isaiah 26:19-21 where it shows the raptured church is told to stay and wait until after the tribulation (until the indignation is past). Can't come with down with Jesus if they're told to stay put.

Isaiah 26:19-21 NKJV
19 Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust; For your dew is like the dew of herbs, And the earth shall cast out the dead.
20 Come, my people, enter your chambers, And shut your doors behind you; Hide yourself, as it were, for a little moment, Until the indignation is past.
21 For behold, the Lord comes out of His place To punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity; The earth will also disclose her blood, And will no more cover her slain.

And if that doesn't work either, you can refer to Matthew 24:31 and Mark 13:27 where it shows His angels gathering the church from heaven after the tribulation as they waited.

Matthew 24:31 NKJV
And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:27 NKJV
And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

By the way, ever noticed the number of saints in Jude 1:14 is less than the 144,000? And far less than the great multitude which no one can count?

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints,

 

[JLB777]

Hi JLB,

Jesus only said that He would come with His Holy angels to execute judgment.

Zech. 14: 5 says `Quodos,`meaning Holy, sacred, place or thing.

Marilyn.

Please stop making false statements.



Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5


again



Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, Jude 14




JLB

 

[Marilyn C]

Please stop making false statements.

Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zechariah 14:5

again

Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, Jude 14

JLB

Hi JLB,

You need to look a bit more closely than accepting a translators bias.


Jude is talking about angelic beings and the rebellious. He says that Enoch prophesied concerning these.

`Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of `hagios,`(Holy ones), to execute judgment on all,…` Jude 14 & 15)


Then in Deuteronomy we read that Moses talks of the same event –

`The Lord came from Sinai, and dawned on them from Seir; He shone forth from Mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of `quodos,`(Holy ones),…` (Deut. 33: 2)

Then in the Psalms we read that David is also talking of the same event –

`The chariots of God are twenty thousand, even thousands of thousands; the Lord is among them as in Sinai, and the Holy Place…`(Ps. 68: 17)

So we see that these Holy ones are the Lord`s angelic army.

Marilyn.