• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Why Jesus won't reign on this Earth for 1,000 years

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by random person, Jul 19, 2014.

  1. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +573
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Then we're not on the same page. That's ok though, debates like this make me dig deeper into the word. I'm firm though...that the beast was Nero.
     
  2. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,093
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Jesus didn't come from heaven with an army in AD70 either.
     
  3. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,093
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican

    How could it be Nero when John wrote the beast was yet to come? He died in Ad68 and was ruling when John wrote Revelation so it can't be him.

    Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

    Nero might be the one is but not the one that was yet to come.
     
  4. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +721
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    I fully agree. Yet, some might be able to supposedly explain that away by saying Jesus did these things in a non literal sense, thus it never involved an actual bodily coming.
     
  5. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +721
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    But what if John wrote the book closer to the end of the century instead? Nero wouldn't fit anything in that case, right?
     
  6. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,093
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    That just ignores and essentially rewrites Rev 19 into anything other than what it says will happen.
     
  7. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,093
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Any dating of Rev means that Nero can't be the AC mentioned. He is either the one king that's falling, or was one who fell already in the past. In any case he isn't the one John said was yet to come and would last a short time...not to mention being defeated at the second coming which rules anyone out from the past.
     
  8. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

    +721
    United States
    Christian
    Married


    I get it that he can't be the AC no matter what. But you did indicate he may have been the one who presently is, meaning in John's day. But that was based on John writing the book while Nero was still alive and reigning. But if John wrote the book towards the late first century, Nero couldn't even be the one that is, in that case. I guess this would mean he could at least be one that has already fallen, which is what you indicate here.
     
  9. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,093
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Right, if it was written according to the later date, I think Ad90, then Nero wasn't even the one John said "one is".

    Not sure why Amils and partial preterists don't get that Nero can't be the 7th king in Rev 17 (nor the 8th).
     
  10. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +573
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Not that you nor I saw. Revelation is John's vision. He saw it and he recorded it and nothing in the passage says it will be visible to you. Take care to note that John said "and I saw"....nothing says you would see it visibly.

    Jesus has an army right now and not all can see it. It's every believer that puts on the full armor of God. Paul tells us this in 2 Corinthians 10:3-6:
    3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh,
    4 for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses.
    5 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
    6 and we are ready to punish all disobedience, whenever your obedience is complete.
     
  11. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +573
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Notice Revelation 17:11:
    11 The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction.

    That is where the difficulty comes in.


    Nero was the 6th king, Galba was the 7th, and lasted 7 months (a little while). So the kings (Caesars) go this way:
    Julius
    Augustus
    Tiberius
    Gaius Caligua
    Cladius
    Nero

    I do realize there's difficulty with this (that's why I study it), but Nero initiated the great persecution of the church and martyred Peter and Paul.
     
  12. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

    +1,454
    Christian
    Married
    The book of revelation interprets what the lake of fire is. It is the 2nd death. I'm not sure how anyone could record the 2nd death in history, especially when it seems to occur after physical death.

    Revelation 20:14 This is the second death—the lake of fire

    depends on the identity of the beast of revelation and the false prophet. There is a lot of speculation on the identities, but no passage tells us who they are specifically. All we know is that the beast of revelation's 7 heads are 7 hills/mountains that the harlot sits on and that the beast's 7 heads are also 7 kings, 5 have fallen, 1 is, and 1 is yet to come, with the beast itself being the 8th king. The false prophet appears to be the beast that comes from the land that performs signs so that the world will worship the beast of the sea. We don't know if these are literal persons, or spiritual forces; or if they are singular or multiple entities. And since identities are not revealed explicitly by scripture, I do not wish to speculate.



    But what we do know, is that Daniel 2 mentions 4 earthly kingdoms. During the kings of the last kingdom, God would set up a kingdom

    Daniel 2:38-42 Wherever the sons of men or beasts of the field or birds of the air dwell, He has given them into your hand and has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

    But after you, there will arise another kingdom, inferior to yours.

    Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule the whole earth.


    And there will be a fourth kingdom as strong as iron; for iron shatters and crushes all things, and like iron that crushes all things, it will shatter and crush all the others. And just as you saw that the feet and toes were made partly of fired clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom, yet some of the strength of iron will be in it—just as you saw the iron mixed with clay. And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. As you saw the iron mixed with clay, so the peoplesc will mix with one another, but will not hold together any more than iron mixes with clay.

    Daniel 2:44 And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that shall never be destroyed, nor shall the kingdom be left to another people. It shall break in pieces all these kingdoms and bring them to an end, and it shall stand forever,

    So, can we identify the 4th earthly kingdom? Well, during the romans empire, which would have been the 4th kingdom in succession to the Babylonian empire, Jesus was manifested in the flesh and preached that the kingdom was at hand.

    Mark 1:14-15 Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand;e repent and believe in the gospel.”

    Jesus states that by his healing, the kingdom of God had come upon them in the 1st century. This would have been during the roman empire.

    Matthew 12:28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I cast out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

    Revelation states the kingdom of God comes at the son's ascension and authority, when satan is cast out. Jesus ascended in the 1st century. This would have been during the roman empire.

    Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down—he who accuses them day and night before our God.

    The son of man inherits the kingdom when he comes on the clouds of heaven to the Father.

    Daniel 7:13-14 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven
    there came one like a son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days
    and was presented before him
    . And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
    which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

    Jesus confirms Daniel 7, that He inherits the kingdom when he ascends to heaven. Jesus ascended to the Father in the 1st century. This would have been during the Roman empire.

    Luke 19:12 He said therefore, “A nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom and then return.

    Paul confirms that the kingdom of God is righteousness, peace, and joy, in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost in the 1st century. This would have been during the roman empire.

    Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.

    Jesus even confirms that his kingdom would come while those in front of him were still alive.

    Mark 9:1 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”

    So this confirms, that the kingdom of God was set up during Christ's ministry, when he died, resurrected, and ascended to the Father to inherit the kingdom and send the Holy Spirit. This would have been during the 4th earthly empire, which was the Romans empire. This helps us understand that the kingdom is like a man who sowed good seed, or the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, or the kingdom of heaven is like a net that gathers fish.

    I'm assuming we can find some agreement as to this being the time ( Christ's 1st advent) as to when the kingdom would be set up?

    But we probably disagree, however, when the saints would inherit the kingdom.

    Daniel states the saints inherit the kingdom when the court sits and the dominion of the little horn is taken away.

    Daniel 7:26-27 But the court will convene, and his dominion will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, dominion, and greatness of the kingdoms under all of heaven will be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will serve and obey Him

    According to Jesus, the saints inherit the kingdom after the separation of righteous and unrighteous.


    Matthew 25:33-34 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

    Paul mentions that God "will bring" (future tense) him into the heavenly kingdom.

    2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom.

    Paul confirms flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and ties this together with the resurrection of the body.

    1 Corinthians 15:50,52-53 tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality

    Paul confirms our citizenship in heaven

    Philippians 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ


    Thus, I would argue that since the kingdom was set up and inherited by Jesus at his death resurrection, ascension, and sending of the spirit, then the saints would also inherit the kingdom at the resurrection and ascension to heaven. This does not preclude that prior to the bodily resurrection the saints are co-workers in the kingdom (colossians 4:11) co-heirs with Christ (romans 8:17), a royal priesthood (1 Peter 2:9), and already considered worthy of kingdom of God through suffering (2 thessalonians 1:5).

     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  13. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,856
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Of course He did.
    Exactly as God came down from heaven with Armies in OT times.

    The OT records how Nations were Personally Judged by God time and again for many things. God would be seen coming down to them on the clouds with fiery vengeance, destroying the heavens and earth each time, killing with His Brightness, wielding His sword, shooting Arrows, cutting down His enemies, melting mountains like wax, with His angelic armies in tow...

    This is the Language the Prophets used, time and again, to describe the fall of a nation.

    The onus is on you to demonstrate where scripture teaches we should take this same OT language and apply a polar opposite interpretation when we find it in the NT.

    Can you?
     
  14. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,093
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican

    The second coming is a global event...it can't go unnoticed or unrecorded by history. The dead in Christ resurrect and are immortal at the second coming, the living saints are changed into immortals and raptured and then the beast and FP and their army are defeated and then the world is governed by Christ and his immortal saints. How exactly did the world miss all of that in AD70?
     
  15. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,093
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican

    I have already proven that Nero can't be the AC because he lived and died too early to qualify.
     
  16. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

    +2,856
    United States
    Catholic
    Married
    US-Others
    Scripture?

    Was this a global event?:
    2 Samuel 22:8-16

    8“Then the earth shook and trembled;
    The foundations of heaven quaked and were shaken,
    Because He was angry.
    9 Smoke went up from His nostrils,
    And devouring fire from His mouth;
    Coals were kindled by it.
    10 He bowed the heavens also, and came down
    With darkness under His feet.
    11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew;
    And He was seen upon the wings of the wind.
    12 He made darkness canopies around Him,
    Dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.
    13 From the brightness before Him
    Coals of fire were kindled.

    14 “The Lord thundered from heaven,
    And the Most High uttered His voice.
    15 He sent out arrows and scattered them;
    Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them.
    16 Then the channels of the sea were seen,
    The foundations of the world were uncovered,
    At the rebuke of the Lord,
    At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.


    This took place when David Defeated Saul and His armies.
    David testifies several things happened at that time:
    • The entire heavens and earth shook,
    • The Heavens were Bowed
    • God was visibly seen riding a Cherub through the clouds
    • He kindled coals with His brightness
    • Smoke was billowing from His Nostrils
    • Fire shot out of His mouth
    • He Shot Arrows
    • He laid the foundations of the entire earth and sea Bare

    How do you figure this global, earth shattering event managed to go TOTALLY UNNOTICED in History, for I cant find it in any of my history books, nor on any website detailing the world History form that time period such as this one:
    1000-600 BCE: c. 1000 BCE - c. 600 BCE - Oxford Reference

    ... Surely something as monumental as God Being Seen Riding A Cherub through the clouds, shooting arrows, causing the heavens and earth and sea be laid bare while He lit fires with His breath would have been recorded in ALL the history books, no?
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2019
  17. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +573
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    They're all dead...and you presume a lot based on your eschatalogical view.
     
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,093
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Again, it is impossible for history to have missed the second coming. It hasn't happened yet.
     
  19. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +573
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    You proved nothing. Just because Nero was the 6th king and died in 68 AD doesn't prove he wasn't the beast. What in scripture says the beast would live through the whole thing? Nero mounted a great persecution of the church.

    The beast can be a nation (as Rome was), and an individual as Nero was king (Caesar). After Nero died the church was still persecuted, and finally with Vespasian as Emperor, his son, Titus led the siege of Jerusalem.
     
  20. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    +573
    Non-Denom
    Married
    US-Constitution
    Ever read historians Josephus, or Tacitus, or Suetonius?
     
Loading...