Why is Western Christianity So Soft?

[Phoneman-777]

Despite the false claims of leftist Fake News, Christianity is the single most persecuted group in the world - not women, not gays, not transgenders, blacks or browns...Christians. While there are good people doing a good job raising awareness of the plight of our global Christian family - such as Voice of the Martyrs, Open Doors, ACLJ - sadly, most Christians don't know what's going on a mere few feet beyond their own church parking lot. If we did, maybe we'd be far less easily offended, easily discouraged, and less likely to give up on God when the going gets tough as often is the case.

In far away lands, Christian women are raped and jailed, their children taken into custody, Christian men and pastors are imprisoned, tortured, killed, churches are targeted and firebombed, governments of pagan countries hostile toward Christianity offer little to no protection, and even far worse atrocities are widespread across the Christian world...but here in the West it's another story.

Here, we enjoy religious freedom. We enjoy the 1st Amendment which forbids state sponsored religion. We enjoy Section 8 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which guarantees workplace religious freedom. We enjoy 501(c)3 tax exempt status which allows billions to be put to use for the cause of God, but much of which is sadly pocketed by unscrupulous "preachers". Yet, in all this, many Christians live under the apprehension that their world will end at any moment. Their boyfriend will break up with them, their church may not re-elect them to that coveted position of leadership, they may be seen as kooky by their secular friends if they join a church, they may even face "difficulties" at home from an unbelieving spouse if they decide to follow Jesus, which often don't go beyond mild annoyance by their significant other. Western Christianity seems to be the weakest spiritually than anywhere else. As that comprehensive Willow Creek church study proved, the more money we throw at this ministry or that ministry, the lesser the positive outcome. Christian divorce is on the rise, children abandon their faith in college for atheistic evolution due to their indiferent "Christian" parents having failed to teach them the difference between Biblically accurate science and the false science of the atheistic scientific community, church attendance wanes, immorality/alcohol/drug/p*rn addiction is on the rise among believers - the wretchedness of Western Christianity seems to only grow worse and worse.

I think we need to go back to the beginning. We need to get back to our "first love" and "remember from whence thou hast fallen". We need to develop a thankful heart for what we have instead of resenting God for what we think we've be unjustly denied. What we need is a generous dose of persecution:

"The apostle Paul declares that 'all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.' Why is it, then, that persecution seems in a great degree to slumber? The only reason is that the church has conformed to the world's standard and therefore awakens no opposition....It is only because of the spirit of compromise with sin, because the great truths of the Word of God are so indifferently regarded, because there is so little vital godliness in the church, that Christianity is apparently so popular with the world. Let there be a revival of faith and power of the early church, and the spirit of persecution will be revived, and the fires of persecution will be rekindled." —The Great Controversy, 48.​

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Persecution has the effect of separating the true from the false, the pretenders from the genuine. People who are into Christianity for alternate reasons or are secretly ashamed of the "foolishness" of the gospel typically will bolt at the first sign of trouble. I always think of those first believers who witnessed the resurrected Jesus, how they were willing to give up their lives rather than deny the Lord and bare witness to the gospel.
Then there are those who cannot bare the "stigma" of being a person of the Word. I will often wear a Jesus Tee-Shirt in public. I do this for several reasons. One, of course, is to bare witness, in my own simple way, to the Lord and His gospel. I get a lot of responses. Some people smile and agree with the message. Some frown and walk away. I also think we need to take steps to make sure the sharing of the gospel is a "normal" activity in this culture. People are trying to change what is considered "normal." The new normal is coming out against God, family, church, even biological, physiological, and genetic truth. We need to be the salt and light. We need to make sure the free and open discussion and sharing of the Word is acceptable in our culture.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

I do agree that just like with anything, when we think we can only do one thing and we are pushed farther it makes the first thing seem so small.

Persecution does put our troubles in perspective.

That being said I don't need hardship in order to appreciate what I have, I am able to appreciate what I have without that persecution.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Despite the false claims of leftist Fake News, Christianity is the single most persecuted group in the world - not women, not gays, not transgenders, blacks or browns...Christians. While there are good people doing a good job raising awareness of the plight of our global Christian family - such as Voice of the Martyrs, Open Doors, ACLJ - sadly, most Christians don't know what's going on a mere few feet beyond their own church parking lot. If we did, maybe we'd be far less easily offended, easily discouraged, and less likely to give up on God when the going gets tough as often is the case.

In far away lands, Christian women are raped and jailed, their children taken into custody, Christian men and pastors are imprisoned, tortured, killed, churches are targeted and firebombed, governments of pagan countries hostile toward Christianity offer little to no protection, and even far worse atrocities are widespread across the Christian world...but here in the West it's another story.

Here, we enjoy religious freedom. We enjoy the 1st Amendment which forbids state sponsored religion. We enjoy Section 8 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which guarantees workplace religious freedom. We enjoy 501(c)3 tax exempt status which allows billions to be put to use for the cause of God, but much of which is sadly pocketed by unscrupulous "preachers". Yet, in all this, many Christians live under the apprehension that their world will end at any moment. Their boyfriend will break up with them, their church may not re-elect them to that coveted position of leadership, they may be seen as kooky by their secular friends if they join a church, they may even face "difficulties" at home from an unbelieving spouse if they decide to follow Jesus, which often don't go beyond mild annoyance by their significant other. Western Christianity seems to be the weakest spiritually than anywhere else. As that comprehensive Willow Creek church study proved, the more money we throw at this ministry or that ministry, the lesser the positive outcome. Christian divorce is on the rise, children abandon their faith in college for atheistic evolution due to their indiferent "Christian" parents having failed to teach them the difference between Biblically accurate science and the false science of the atheistic scientific community, church attendance wanes, immorality/alcohol/drug/p*rn addiction is on the rise among believers - the wretchedness of Western Christianity seems to only grow worse and worse.

I think we need to go back to the beginning. We need to get back to our "first love" and "remember from whence thou hast fallen". We need to develop a thankful heart for what we have instead of resenting God for what we think we've be unjustly denied. What we need is a generous dose of persecution:

"The apostle Paul declares that 'all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.' Why is it, then, that persecution seems in a great degree to slumber? The only reason is that the church has conformed to the world's standard and therefore awakens no opposition....It is only because of the spirit of compromise with sin, because the great truths of the Word of God are so indifferently regarded, because there is so little vital godliness in the church, that Christianity is apparently so popular with the world. Let there be a revival of faith and power of the early church, and the spirit of persecution will be revived, and the fires of persecution will be rekindled." —The Great Controversy, 48.​

That's some mighty BIG TALK you have there ... ... ...

While I'm all for the idea that any and all of us who claim to be a "Christian" can do better in our minds and lives in various ways, I don't think that anyone has the world all figured out. Nor do I think that social dysfunctions and spiritual failure are all brought on by "false science" or "failed Christian parents."

No. The problems are more complex and complicated than all of that. What you're offering as an explanation for a "Weak Western Christianity" is merely window dressing for the vacuum space within the Window that opens directly to the Abyss. If anything, it's because we don't really know what we're doing in life anymore which is leading to the upheaval of faith and family. It's not merely because we've "forgotten our first love"...

If I were you, I'd instead offer compassion, patience and hope to people--persons of any sort, whether they be Liberal or Conservative-- rather than pulling out your pseudo-prophetic Whammy-Stick and bashing folks over the head. Life is already existentially confusing and difficult enough as it is without self-promoting individuals like yourself taking it upon themselves to whip the rest of us into submission.

I, for one, will ABSOLUTELY NOT put up with the kind of apathetic cajoling that your polemics push here into our faces. If you're going to epistemically trangress into the field of Philosophy, then just know that you will be met on the battlefield of the mind.

 

[Phoneman-777]

That's some mighty BIG TALK you have there ... ... ...

While I'm all for the idea that any and all of us who claim to be a "Christian" can do better in our minds and lives in various ways, I don't think that anyone has the world all figured out. Nor do I think that social dysfunctions and spiritual failure are all brought on by "false science" or "failed Christian parents."

No. The problems are more complex and complicated than all of that. What you're offering as an explanation for a "Weak Western Christianity" is merely window dressing for the vacuum space within the Window that opens directly to the Abyss. If anything, it's because we don't really know what we're doing in life anymore which is leading to the upheaval of faith and family. It's not merely because we've "forgotten our first love"...

If I were you, I'd instead offer compassion, patience and hope to people--persons of any sort, whether they be Liberal or Conservative-- rather than pulling out your pseudo-prophetic Whammy-Stick and bashing folks over the head. Life is already existentially confusing and difficult enough as it is without self-promoting individuals like yourself taking it upon themselves to whip the rest of us into submission.

I, for one, will ABSOLUTELY NOT put up with the kind of apathetic cajoling that your polemics push here into our faces. If you're going to epistemically trangress into the field of Philosophy, then just know that you will be met on the battlefield of the mind.

Hey, my philosophy is that of Luther's: "Let the minds clash, but keep the fists down".

I would have you re-read the OP. Did you see what I wrote about that in depth research study by Willow Creek, the church used as a pattern for just about the whole of non-denominational Christianity? Did you bother to look up founder Bill Hybel's earth shattering "WE MADE A MISTAKE" summation of that research?

You who advocate "compassion" and "hope" fail to see what you're really offering is "saccharine sentimentalism" - empty junk food calories, no spiritual nutrition. It does no good to whisper sweet words of comfort to him who's sleepwalking in the middle of the freeway. The command is "cry ALOUD, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet and show My people their sins" and to preach the message "with a LOUD voice, Fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment IS come..."

GOD'S JOB is to speak to us in the still, small voice, lest we retreat in terror at His intolerable glory and majesty as did the Israelites at Sinai.

OUR JOB is to wake up the sleeping saints which seem to have most often made their bed in the West.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hey, my philosophy is that of Luther's: "Let the minds clash, but keep the fists down".

I would have you re-read the OP. Did you see what I wrote about that in depth research study by Willow Creek, the church used as a pattern for just about the whole of non-denominational Christianity? Did you bother to look up founder Bill Hybel's earth shattering "WE MADE A MISTAKE" summation of that research?

You who advocate "compassion" and "hope" fail to see what you're really offering is "saccharine sentimentalism" - empty junk food calories, no spiritual nutrition. It does no good to whisper sweet words of comfort to him who's sleepwalking in the middle of the freeway. The command is "cry ALOUD, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet and show My people their sins" and to preach the message "with a LOUD voice, Fear God and give glory to Him for the hour of His judgment IS come..."

GOD'S JOB is to speak to us in the still, small voice, lest we retreat in terror at His intolerable glory and majesty as did the Israelites at Sinai.

OUR JOB is to wake up the sleeping saints which seem to have most often made their bed in the West.

No, "your job" is to better understand people, as well as the actuality of the pitfalls of a modern Church that makes way too many self-assured and grandiose overtures toward an undemonstrable absoluteness.

While, like you, I have little use for the 'Willow Creek' brand of churchianity. I'm an existentialist and with the being that case, I'm more concerned about Reality as Reality is rather than what anyone would ideally put in place of it while jumping around in a gunny sack exclaiming, "Truth, truth, truth, there be here ... !!!"

And if the Christian Church has to take a few bumps and bruises, or even mental fractures along the way in order to find the actuality of its faith and its overly affirmed patronization of the Bible-----------THEN SO BE IT!!! If Christianity is 'real,' then Christ will still be standing at the helm of it All after the Bible has been placed throughly through the meat grinder of Modern Criticism.

Being that things are NOT all rosey for the Christian Church in the present moment, I'd humbly suggest that you change your tune and seek to help folks instead find hope rather than lavish upon them heapings of pseudo-guilt and condemnation as potential "motivators" toward belief and faithfulness.

Kapeesh? ... I hope so.

 

[Phoneman-777]

No, "your job" is to better understand people, as well as the actuality of the pitfalls of a modern Church that makes way too make self-assured and grandiose overtures toward an undemonstrable absoluteness.

While, like you, I have little use for the 'Willow Creek' brand of churchianity. I'm an existentialist and with that being that case, I'm more concerned about Reality as Reality is rather than what anyone would ideally put in place of it and jump around in gunny sacks exclaiming, "Truth, truth, truth, there be here ... !!!"

And if the Christian Church has to take a few bumps and bruises, or even mental fractures along the way in order to find the actuality of its faith and its overly affirmed patronization of the Bible-----------THEN SO BE IT!!! If Christianity is 'real,' then Christ will still be standing at the helm of it All after the Bible has been placed throughly through the meat grinder of Modern Criticism.

Being that things are NOT all rosey for the Christian Church in the present moment, I'd humbly suggest that you change your tune and seek to help folks instead find hope rather than lavish upon them heapings of pseudo-guilt and condemnation as potential "motivators" toward belief and faithfulness.

Kapeesh? ... I hope so.

You are so off base when it comes to the needs of the church. We've tried your brand of Christianity for too long and IT'S NOT WORKING. It's time you stop comforting people in their sin and start arousing them to the danger they're in. Ask yourself, If the church in the West is so strong, why is it that churches in other countries feel the need to send missionaries to AMERICA? Because suffering is redemptive, and what we see in the West is a marked lack of repentance and a stubborn insistence on being saved according to MY terms, not God's terms.

 

[friend of]

Harboring a spirit that is easily offended is quite antithetical to a healthy Christian state of being. We are too self absorbed and we get offended at trifles. We need to deny ourselves and not respond to insult with reviling. We need to welcome constructive criticism.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You are so off base when it comes to the needs of the church. We've tried your brand of Christianity for too long and IT'S NOT WORKING. It's time you stop comforting people in their sin and start arousing them to the danger they're in. Ask yourself, If the church in the West is so strong, why is it that churches in other countries feel the need to send missionaries to AMERICA? Because suffering is redemptive, and what we see in the West is a marked lack of repentance and a stubborn insistence on being saved according to MY terms, not God's terms.

Oh? ... and what is it that you think constitutes "my brand of Christianity"?

(Hint: It shouldn't be too hard to figure out with CF being structured the way it is.)

 

[Phoneman-777]

Harboring a spirit that is easily offended is quite antithetical to a healthy Christian state of being. We are too self absorbed and we get offended at trifles. We need to deny ourselves and not respond to insult with reviling. We need to welcome constructive criticism.

"Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness. And let him rebuke me; it shall be an excellent oil which shall not break my head."

 

[dzheremi]

Despite the false claims of leftist Fake News, Christianity is the single most persecuted group in the world - not women, not gays, not transgenders, blacks or browns...Christians. While there are good people doing a good job raising awareness of the plight of our global Christian family - such as Voice of the Martyrs, Open Doors, ACLJ - sadly, most Christians don't know what's going on a mere few feet beyond their own church parking lot.

What an odd couple of sentences to placed next to each other like this. Globally, most Christians are "blacks, browns, and women".

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'm merely speculating here, based on the level of you indignation...perhaps a healthy mix of sloppy agape, greasy grace, Kumbaya circle jerk sprinkled with some rosary beads, a few transubstantiated wafers, and a cup of that pricey booze that lands so many priests and nuns in alcoholism treatment centers? (Yes, there's a real problem with it in catholicism, according to my research).

Not even close.

Be blessed!

 

[SavedByGrace3]

People willing to suffer persecution, from mere insults to torturous death, are a testimony to the truth of the faith.
I do not hope for such things. But if they come our way.. I pray I (and any of you) hold fast to our confession.
He died for me. I pray if if that honor comes my way... I represent Him well and encourage others to stand fast also.

 

[lismore]

What we need is a generous dose of persecution:

Hello there! 2 Timothy 3:12 Yes, and everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.

Persecution is guaranteed for those who seek to live a Godly life in Christ Jesus in every culture. To receive a generous dose of persecution stand for the truth generously in word and deed. I think perhaps part of the issue in the West is that the god of the church is the belly and the bank account (and other things). God Bless

 

[lismore]

I remember meeting a medical student from China. He said he felt weary at church because, after hearing a sermon where he felt enthused and fired up, he would try to speak to the other church members after the service. He wanted to speak about the sermon and Godly things, they wanted to speak about football, cars and pets. God Bless

 

[BeyondET]

children abandon their faith in college for atheistic evolution due to their indiferent "Christian" parents having failed to teach them the difference between Biblically accurate science and the false science of the atheistic scientific community,

Is this out of frustration?

Because adults go to college not children,

do you got any links that shows it is happening.

 

[lismore]

do you got any links that shows it is happening.

Hello BeyondET. The clip below, I heard this speaker Ken Ham in person in Scotland giving a similar presentation in 2006:

What he says supports what brother Phoneman-777 is saying. And over the past seventeen years it has proved to be correct here in Scotland. God Bless You

 

[BeyondET]

Hello BeyondET. The clip below, I heard this speaker Ken Ham in person in Scotland giving a similar presentation in 2006:

What he says supports what brother Phoneman-777 is saying. And over the past seventeen years it has proved to be correct here in Scotland. God Bless You

Still nothing about people going to college and abandoning their faith.

When was Bibles in public schools? In the 70's I don't remember Bibles being in public schools here in America. Must of been before that. The separation between church and state has been in our constitution for quite awhile.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Despite the false claims of leftist Fake News, Christianity is the single most persecuted group in the world - not women, not gays, not transgenders, blacks or browns...Christians. While there are good people doing a good job raising awareness of the plight of our global Christian family - such as Voice of the Martyrs, Open Doors, ACLJ - sadly, most Christians don't know what's going on a mere few feet beyond their own church parking lot. If we did, maybe we'd be far less easily offended, easily discouraged, and less likely to give up on God when the going gets tough as often is the case.

In far away lands, Christian women are raped and jailed, their children taken into custody, Christian men and pastors are imprisoned, tortured, killed, churches are targeted and firebombed, governments of pagan countries hostile toward Christianity offer little to no protection, and even far worse atrocities are widespread across the Christian world...but here in the West it's another story.

Here, we enjoy religious freedom. We enjoy the 1st Amendment which forbids state sponsored religion. We enjoy Section 8 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which guarantees workplace religious freedom. We enjoy 501(c)3 tax exempt status which allows billions to be put to use for the cause of God, but much of which is sadly pocketed by unscrupulous "preachers". Yet, in all this, many Christians live under the apprehension that their world will end at any moment. Their boyfriend will break up with them, their church may not re-elect them to that coveted position of leadership, they may be seen as kooky by their secular friends if they join a church, they may even face "difficulties" at home from an unbelieving spouse if they decide to follow Jesus, which often don't go beyond mild annoyance by their significant other. Western Christianity seems to be the weakest spiritually than anywhere else. As that comprehensive Willow Creek church study proved, the more money we throw at this ministry or that ministry, the lesser the positive outcome. Christian divorce is on the rise, children abandon their faith in college for atheistic evolution due to their indiferent "Christian" parents having failed to teach them the difference between Biblically accurate science and the false science of the atheistic scientific community, church attendance wanes, immorality/alcohol/drug/p*rn addiction is on the rise among believers - the wretchedness of Western Christianity seems to only grow worse and worse.

I think we need to go back to the beginning. We need to get back to our "first love" and "remember from whence thou hast fallen". We need to develop a thankful heart for what we have instead of resenting God for what we think we've be unjustly denied. What we need is a generous dose of persecution:

"The apostle Paul declares that 'all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.' Why is it, then, that persecution seems in a great degree to slumber? The only reason is that the church has conformed to the world's standard and therefore awakens no opposition....It is only because of the spirit of compromise with sin, because the great truths of the Word of God are so indifferently regarded, because there is so little vital godliness in the church, that Christianity is apparently so popular with the world. Let there be a revival of faith and power of the early church, and the spirit of persecution will be revived, and the fires of persecution will be rekindled." —The Great Controversy, 48.​

Persecution is not the solution. Nor should we either be seeking it or wishing it upon ourselves.

Rather, jettisoning the false assumption that the Bible is or ever was an "inerrant, singular, unified," let alone "scientific," collection of ancient writings would be a better antidote. That way, anyone can pick up a Bible and not be deluded from childhood to expect more than what God offers, or has ever offered, in Reality. It would also go some way in alleviating us of the notion that any one Christian "denomination" has all the right answers to Life through its particular metaphysical and interpretive guesswork.

Maybe kids could be allowed to start their study of Life with Copernicus or Galileo rather than with Luther or Calvin. In regard to Copernicus and his novel theory of Heliocentrism, Luther expressed the following ascerbic (and needless) sentiments, much like some Christians today do over other aspects of modern science: "This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy; but sacred Scripture tells us that Joshua commanded the Sun to stand still, and not the Earth.” Calvin expressed similar sentiments about Copernicus' scientific outlook as well ...

Religious Objections to Copernicus

Luther, Calvin, & Melanchthon Wax Geocentric, Oppose Copernicus

Documented evidence, showing that Luther, Calvin, & Melanchthon had geocentric views (they all thought that the sun went around the earth).

www.patheos.com

John Calvin on Nicolaus Copernicus and Heliocentrism - BioLogos

It would be a great error to use John Calvin’s 16th century mind to oppose the accepted scientific consensus of today.

biologos.org

... and now some Christians do the same with the Theory of Evolution, needlessly fearing it and thereby contributing to (but not solely causing) the conceptual and psychological "set-up" for a falling away from the Christian faith, a falling away that is increasingly rolling about in society these days.

I think we can all do better than this. Much better. So, why don't we?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Is this out of frustration?

Because adults go to college not children,

do you got any links that shows it is happening.

Do you really think teaching kids that the Bible is a myth and there is no God using what appears to be legit science has no effect on their decision to continue believing in God or not?