Why is this disrespectful?

[Introverted1293]

Why is it disrespectful to say that you pray for somebody Soul when they die? When I say it, I'm not being judgemental towards them because I myself have a hard time believing that I am saved. I don't know.

 

[Yanni depp]

I remember seeing the post and found nothing wrong with it. It made you think about mortality and what it means in your own life if i remember correctly (its been edited to an ellipsis now.) Im not sure why people git upset and i dont think i care to know. For what its worth, i thought it was honest and respectful ✌

 

[Introverted1293]

I remember seeing the post and found nothing wrong with it. It made you think about mortality and what it means in your own life if i remember correctly (its been edited to an ellipsis now.) Im not sure why people git upset and i dont think i care to know. For what its worth, i thought it was honest and respectful ✌

Thank you

 

[Emli]

I read through that thread. Your post wasn't disrespectful. I agree with what you're saying. Anyone who dies without believing in Jesus and having repented is going to be judged.

Atheists will always find this disrespectful, because they put man above God. But in God's eyes, you are putting Him first. Put no stock in what other people tell you, because you have chosen God. That means we will be persecuted one way or another. People telling you that you are disrespectful when you talk about Hell, that is persecution. Rejoice when this happens! You are doing what God wants you to do, and you are growing in Christ.

It doesn't matter at all how much a person does in this life, unless it's done for God. Because it will all perish. God is not a respecter of persons, and neither should we be. I'm not saying that we shouldn't respect people, I'm saying that we shouldn't put people on a podium for their worldly accomplishments, because that is how the Gentiles live.

Keep your faith! Keep mourning when someone ends up in Hell, because there is no coming back from it. And if God can use you to get one sinner to repent, then it doesn't matter if people are offended, because God and His angels in Heaven will be rejoicing!

And pay no attention to what atheists say to you. They do not know truth!

 

[Introverted1293]

I read through that thread. Your post wasn't disrespectful. I agree with what you're saying. Anyone who dies without believing in Jesus and having repented is going to be judged.

Atheists will always find this disrespectful, because they put man above God. But in God's eyes, you are putting Him first. Put no stock in what other people tell you, because you have chosen God. That means we will be persecuted one way or another. People telling you that you are disrespectful when you talk about Hell, that is persecution. Rejoice when this happens! You are doing what God wants you to do, and you are growing in Christ.

It doesn't matter at all how much a person does in this life, unless it's done for God. Because it will all perish. God is not a respecter of persons, and neither should we be. I'm not saying that we shouldn't respect people, I'm saying that we shouldn't put people on a podium for their worldly accomplishments, because that is how the Gentiles live.

Keep your faith! Keep mourning when someone ends up in Hell, because there is no coming back from it. And if God can use you to get one sinner to repent, then it doesn't matter if people are offended, because God and His angels in Heaven will be rejoicing!

And pay no attention to what atheists say to you. They do not know truth!

Thank you

 

[dgiharris]

Why is it disrespectful to say that you pray for somebody Soul when they die? When I say it, I'm not being judgemental towards them because I myself have a hard time believing that I am saved. I don't know.

I want to focus on the above highlighted in red.

This is a very common tactic in arguing and I don't like it. Understand that there are many nuances to human communication. Communication is not only about the word choice, but it is also about the tone, the inflection, the meaning and the meaning behind the meaning...

Now, when someone says something in an offensive way, one tactic is to "paraphrased" what was said and then ask "Well what is so wrong about what I said?"

Here is an example.

I see Bob walking down the street. Bob's wife is not attractive, in fact, she is so ugly that she scares dogs and small children. She happens to be wearing a big hat and as they walk by you say, "That's a pretty hat, it makes you look good because it covers most of your face."

Now, Bob gets mad at you and the two of you get into a fight...

So later, when you are telling the story to some other friends you just say, "I don't know why they got so mad, all I did was tell her she had a nice pretty big hat and out of the blue Bob starts fighting with me..."

Really? Is that really all you told her? Is that really all you said? Does Bob really have no cause to be upset at you....

I don't know why it is human nature for us to downplay our culpability when others get mad at us.

It takes integrity and courage to look at what you said and did in an honest light and to be truthful to yourself. Human beings are for the most part reasonable, so if I did something that made someone else mad there is probably a good reason behind their anger and it would behoove me to be honest in attempting to figure out why and how they are angry at me...

The worst thing I can do is martyr myself with the whole "I don't know what I did wrong" sulky musings.

Own what you did, own what you said and "how" you said it and acknowledge that you can understand how people could have taken it the wrong way. Otherwise, you do the truth and yourself and disservice by pretending you just can't understand why people would have been upset with you in the other thread

 

[Strathos]

Own what you did, own what you said and "how" you said it

What did he do, what did he say, and how did he say it?

 

[Introverted1293]

I want to focus on the above highlighted in red.

This is a very common tactic in arguing and I don't like it. Understand that there are many nuances to human communication. Communication is not only about the word choice, but it is also about the tone, the inflection, the meaning and the meaning behind the meaning...

Now, when someone says something in an offensive way, one tactic is to "paraphrased" what was said and then ask "Well what is so wrong about what I said?"

Here is an example.

I see Bob walking down the street. Bob's wife is not attractive, in fact, she is so ugly that she scares dogs and small children. She happens to be wearing a big hat and as they walk by you say, "That's a pretty hat, it makes you look good because it covers most of your face."

Now, Bob gets mad at you and the two of you get into a fight...

So later, when you are telling the story to some other friends you just say, "I don't know why they got so mad, all I did was tell her she had a nice pretty big hat and out of the blue Bob starts fighting with me..."

Really? Is that really all you told her? Is that really all you said? Does Bob really have no cause to be upset at you....

I don't know why it is human nature for us to downplay our culpability when others get mad at us.

It takes integrity and courage to look at what you said and did in an honest light and to be truthful to yourself. Human beings are for the most part reasonable, so if I did something that made someone else mad there is probably a good reason behind their anger and it would behoove me to be honest in attempting to figure out why and how they are angry at me...

The worst thing I can do is martyr myself with the whole "I don't know what I did wrong" sulky musings.

Own what you did, own what you said and "how" you said it and acknowledge that you can understand how people could have taken it the wrong way. Otherwise, you do the truth and yourself and disservice by pretending you just can't understand why people would have been upset with you in the other thread

I have looked at my other thread and people did have somewhat right to get upset with me. I did make the thread about me a little bit, for I started talking about my own flaws and why I needed to repent, which I should have wrote in the Christian advice section and not in current events. That was an inappropriate place to write that.

But this is not about my thread. This is about other people who said I pray for his soul. I fail to understand how your analogy has anything to do with praying for somebody else's soul. I will use another analogy to show my point.

Say that you are in jail or you were in jail and you and your friend committed the same crime. But you were only in jail for a short time, while your friend was in jail for a very long time. But say that your friend because she or he isn't sorry for what he or she did, but you were sorry. And as a result the judge decided to put your friend to death as a result. You love your friend and you don't want anything to happen to your friend. Your friend is like a brother or sister. So you plead with the judge for mercy for your friend.

So telling somebody that they're ugly is completely different than praying for somebody's soul. From what I see it's because of a lack of understanding between people.

People had every right to say that I made the thread all about me. But praying for somebody else's Soul isn't making anything about me.

I hate the fact that there is a hell. I hate the fact that some people are going to experience, and this could be me, Eternal separation from God, which would be torturous.

So we're just going to have to agree that we just see things differently. People see saying that I pray for somebody else's Soul very rude, but I fail to see how rude it is.

 

[Introverted1293]

What did he do, what did he say, and how did he say it?

In my thread I wrote and I hate to bring it up again.

Stephen Hawking's has died. He was an atheist who did not believe in God. He has said that because there is something such as Gravity the universe can and will create itself. Well, now he knows the truth. I pray that God has mercy upon his soul.

And then I started talking about my own flaws. I started to say,

But I have no right to judge, for I still sin and scripture says that if you continue in your sin you are worse off than an unbeliever.

 

[dgiharris]

...So we're just going to have to agree that we just see things differently. People see saying that I pray for somebody else's Soul very rude, but I fail to see how rude it is.

You are missing the point of what I am saying, you are taking my analogy too literally...

What I mean to say is this: In order to understand how ANYONE can be offended by ANYTHING what you have to do is you have to put yourself in their shoes, you have to internalize their morality, and then try to see things through their eyes.

Once you do that, then you will have a better sense of "why" or "how" they can be offended.

Personally, there are times and instances of me hating when someone says, "I"ll pray for you".

There are a lot of Christians that believe that "praying for someone" is a herculean feat and they use that as their excuse to not take any actual overt action or try to help the situation.

I "sometimes" find this offensive because god is not a genie. God does not grant wishes simply because you pray to him. God works THROUGH US and if we see something wrong it is up to us to actually do "something" to right that wrong.

So that is one example of "how" someone could be offended for the "I'll pray for you".

Saw church members do this at a funeral. They went up to the widow and said, "I'll pray for you...". I then went up to them separately and asked, "Why don't you cook a meal for her??? Why don't you just go by the house and do her chores for a day??? Why don't you call her on the phone just to talk to her???"

Another instance of it being received in the wrong light is when it is delivered in such a way as to remind the person you are saying it to that Christianity is actually against their beliefs.

Here is an example. If I had a gay atheist coworker and his gay atheist lover contracts cancer and dies. I would never tell him "I'll pray for you...". That is a smack in the face to that person and will be perceived as such despite whatever intention you may have. Just say, "I"m sorry for your loss" and then you can pray for them as long as you like just don't tell them about it...

there you go, two examples of how someone can be offended or upset at when you tell them "I'll pray for you..."

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

Annonucing that you will pray for someone is obnoxious unless you are doing so to comfort whomever you are saying it to.

I imagine you pray for your loved ones regularly. Do you call them up to announce every prayer? No, you don't because it isn't necessary and someone would rightly think you were attention or praise seeking if you did so.

When you say things like that, in circumstances like that thread, you are doing so to comfort yourself and revel in the fact that they were wrong and you are right! It certainly was disrespectful of the deceased to use his death to Pat yourself on the back

It just didn't need to be said.

 

[Introverted1293]

Annonucing that you will pray for someone is obnoxious unless you are doing so to comfort whomever you are saying it to.

I imagine you pray for your loved ones regularly. Do you call them up to announce every prayer? No, you don't because it isn't necessary and someone would rightly think you were attention or praise seeking if you did so.

When you say things like that, in circumstances like that thread, you are doing so to comfort yourself and revel in the fact that they were wrong and you are right! It certainly was disrespectful of the deceased to use his death to Pat yourself on the back

It just didn't need to be said.

Well, I don't go around announcing to people that I am praying for them. This is a Christian forum and I did it on a Christian forum and people found it annoying. But I don't in life go around telling people that I am praying for them, in fact I think that is stupid.

In fact, I keep my beliefs to myself offline. But it's amazing . But it's amazing that when voicing your beliefs on a christianforums some people get really upset.

And patting yourself on the back works both ways. Screaming at somebody because you don't like them saying that their praying for someone who is deceased on a Christian forum, isn't that doing the same thing?

I don't go around harassing people online either. But I will watch what I say online as well. But like I said, I think everyone pats themselves on the back when they start screaming at each other because they think the other person is wrong.

 

[Introverted1293]

You are missing the point of what I am saying, you are taking my analogy too literally...

What I mean to say is this: In order to understand how ANYONE can be offended by ANYTHING what you have to do is you have to put yourself in their shoes, you have to internalize their morality, and then try to see things through their eyes.

Once you do that, then you will have a better sense of "why" or "how" they can be offended.

Personally, there are times and instances of me hating when someone says, "I"ll pray for you".

There are a lot of Christians that believe that "praying for someone" is a herculean feat and they use that as their excuse to not take any actual overt action or try to help the situation.

I "sometimes" find this offensive because god is not a genie. God does not grant wishes simply because you pray to him. God works THROUGH US and if we see something wrong it is up to us to actually do "something" to right that wrong.

So that is one example of "how" someone could be offended for the "I'll pray for you".

Saw church members do this at a funeral. They went up to the widow and said, "I'll pray for you...". I then went up to them separately and asked, "Why don't you cook a meal for her??? Why don't you just go by the house and do her chores for a day??? Why don't you call her on the phone just to talk to her???"

Another instance of it being received in the wrong light is when it is delivered in such a way as to remind the person you are saying it to that Christianity is actually against their beliefs.

Here is an example. If I had a gay atheist coworker and his gay atheist lover contracts cancer and dies. I would never tell him "I'll pray for you...". That is a smack in the face to that person and will be perceived as such despite whatever intention you may have. Just say, "I"m sorry for your loss" and then you can pray for them as long as you like just don't tell them about it...

there you go, two examples of how someone can be offended or upset at when you tell them "I'll pray for you..."

Well, I don't exactly go around telling people I am praying for them. I only said that about someone who has died. And everyone's acting like as though I was being self-righteous, but I think that self-righteousness works both ways. I think we're all judgemental towards one another based on our idea of what we consider moral behaviour. But I think I will be careful on Christian forum since there is a lot of atheist on here.

 

[PreviouslySeeking...]

Well, I don't go around announcing to people that I am praying for them. This is a Christian forum and I did it on a Christian forum and people found it annoying. But I don't in life go around telling people that I am praying for them, in fact I think that is stupid.

In fact, I keep my beliefs to myself offline. But it's amazing . But it's amazing that when voicing your beliefs on a christianforums some people get really upset.

And patting yourself on the back works both ways. Screaming at somebody because you don't like them saying that I'm praying for someone who is deceased on a Christian forum, isn't that doing the same thing?

You are very defensive, that will not serve you well in life.

1. You didn't voice your beliefs. Voicing your beliefs would have been a personal statement in relation yourself.

2. What you did is make an unnecessary statement in relation to a deceased man. One you admit you wouldn't have made in public because you would've considered it stupid to do so.

3. No one screamed at you. People on that thread expressed disapproval. The ones on this thread are answering your question. I don't hear any screaming.

 

[Introverted1293]

You are very defensive, that will not serve you well in life.

1. You didn't voice your beliefs. Voicing your beliefs would have been a personal statement in relation yourself.

2. What you did is make an unnecessary statement in relation to a deceased man. One you admit you wouldn't have made in public because you would've considered it stupid to do so.

3. No one screamed at you. People on that thread expressed disapproval. The ones on this thread are answering your question. I don't hear any screaming.

OKay

 

[bhsmte]

Why is it disrespectful to say that you pray for somebody Soul when they die? When I say it, I'm not being judgemental towards them because I myself have a hard time believing that I am saved. I don't know.

People perceive things differently. As an atheist towards the Christian God, this wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[Introverted1293]

You are very defensive, that will not serve you well in life.

1. You didn't voice your beliefs. Voicing your beliefs would have been a personal statement in relation yourself.

2. What you did is make an unnecessary statement in relation to a deceased man. One you admit you wouldn't have made in public because you would've considered it stupid to do so.

3. No one screamed at you. People on that thread expressed disapproval. The ones on this thread are answering your question. I don't hear any screaming.

I know. I guess I just need to learn to deal with it when somebody sees things differently than me. Like I said in another thread, I'm kind of a snowflake.

 

[dgiharris]

Well, I don't exactly go around telling people I am praying for them. I only said that about someone who has died. And everyone's acting like as though I was being self-righteous, but I think that self-righteousness works both ways. I think we're all judgemental towards one another based on our idea of what we consider moral behaviour. But I think I will be careful on Christian forum since there is a lot of atheist on here.

You have completely missed the point of what I said...

you need to get over your martyrism and you need to understand why what you said could have been taken the wrong way...

You have two options:
#1) Make a concerted effort to understand "why" your actions resulted in an undesirable effect
#2) Continue to be oblivious and go through life unfairly persecuted all the while believing you are doing nothing wrong.


When I was younger, I was easily 20 IQ points smarter than everyone around me. Lucky for me my IQ lent itself readily to humor. Because i was fairly funny, I tended to have a lot of friends. However, I noticed every so often I'd be with a group of friends, everyone would be laughing and joking, and then I'd inadvertently kill the mood somehow.

Thankfully, someone noticed what I was doing and pulled me aside. You see, I had this problem of correcting people when they were wrong about their facts. Someone would be telling a story or a funny joke and they would get some trivial meaningless detail wrong. Because they were wrong I felt this compulsion to correct them. Unbeknownst to me, I was embarrassing people and making them feel stupid and killing the mood. 99% of the time, it just wasn't worth correcting someone in public over a trivial point that didn't matter.

Now, my initial response was to be all like, "Well, they are wrong and all I'm doing is just correcting them so why should they be mad...". however, I stopped that train of thought and put myself in their shoes. I tried to understand how it feels to be publically corrected in a way that makes you look stupid by some know-it-all...

I made an effort to understand why I was killing the mood or sometimes putting people off. Because I was able to understand "why" my actions were having unintended consequences and results I was able to modify and correct my behavior,

Hopefully this posts helps you and if it does not hopefully it helps someone else.

If after all of this you still don't understand how and why you were wrong then I guess you just aren't going to get it and enjoy being a martyr too much to take a hard look at yourself and your actions.

 

[Introverted1293]

You have completely missed the point of what I said...

you need to get over your martyrism and you need to understand why what you said could have been taken the wrong way...

You have two options:
#1) Make a concerted effort to understand "why" your actions resulted in an undesirable effect
#2) Continue to be oblivious and go through life unfairly persecuted all the while believing you are doing nothing wrong.


When I was younger, I was easily 20 IQ points smarter than everyone around me. Lucky for me my IQ lent itself readily to humor. Because i was fairly funny, I tended to have a lot of friends. However, I noticed every so often I'd be with a group of friends, everyone would be laughing and joking, and then I'd inadvertently kill the mood somehow.

Thankfully, someone noticed what I was doing and pulled me aside. You see, I had this problem of correcting people when they were wrong about their facts. Someone would be telling a story or a funny joke and they would get some trivial meaningless detail wrong. Because they were wrong I felt this compulsion to correct them. Unbeknownst to me, I was embarrassing people and making them feel stupid and killing the mood. 99% of the time, it just wasn't worth correcting someone in public over a trivial point that didn't matter.

Now, my initial response was to be all like, "Well, they are wrong and all I'm doing is just correcting them so why should they be mad...". however, I stopped that train of thought and put myself in their shoes. I tried to understand how it feels to be publically corrected in a way that makes you look stupid by some know-it-all...

I made an effort to understand why I was killing the mood or sometimes putting people off. Because I was able to understand "why" my actions were having unintended consequences and results I was able to modify and correct my behavior,

Hopefully this posts helps you and if it does not hopefully it helps someone else.

If after all of this you still don't understand how and why you were wrong then I guess you just aren't going to get it and enjoy being a martyr too much to take a hard look at yourself and your actions.

OKay.

 

[Willie T]

Why is it disrespectful to say that you pray for somebody Soul when they die? When I say it, I'm not being judgemental towards them because I myself have a hard time believing that I am saved. I don't know.

It's not "disrespectful." It just simply is never mentioned in the Bible as something we can do.