• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

Why is there no evidence that Jesus baptised with immersion in water?

Discussion in 'Christian History' started by AdamjEdgar, Apr 11, 2021.

  1. AdamjEdgar

    AdamjEdgar Member

    172
    +72
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    We know that Jesus himself was baptised by immersion in water (Matthew 3).

    John the Baptist preached that "one would come after who would baptise with spirit and fire", however, Jesus does not appear to have baptised anyone via immersion in water and yet, the apostles clearly did this long after the cross.

    I am also querying the relationship between Christian baptisms, the sanctuary service, and Jesus as both our sacrificial lamb and high priest (i feel that there is a link i the sanctuary services that explains why Jesus did not baptise in water)

    If the baptism via immersion as performed by John the Baptist was an important ritual, what happened as a result of a break in the timeline between the death of John the Baptist, and the Day of Pentecost approx 7 weeks after Jesus crucifixion? (John died quite some time before Jesus did so if baptism by immersion in water is crucial in salvation, what happened immediately after John the baptist died as there is no record of any further water baptisms until the apostles)
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. Friedrich Rubinstein

    Friedrich Rubinstein Well-Known Member

    800
    +852
    Germany
    Christian
    Private
    I would say there is no evidence of Jesus baptising with immersion in water because he didn't do it.

    Jesus didn't come to earth to baptise people in water, but to tell people about God and our need of repentance. The important part for salvation is the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Jesus (and Paul as well btw) left the task of baptism with water to other disciples.

    If there was a time where nobody baptised anyone by immersion in water it's not a big issue. I'm pretty sure the thief on the cross wasn't baptised in water either.
     
  3. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,955
    United States
    Christian
    Celibate
    John 3:
    22 After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there
    He remained with them and baptized.
    23 Now John also was baptizing in Aenon near Salim, because there was much water there.
    And they came and were baptized.
    24 For John had not yet been thrown into prison.
    25 Then there arose a dispute between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about purification.
    26 And they came to John and said to him, “Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to
    whom you have testified—behold, He is baptizing, and all are coming to Him!”
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  4. ralliann

    ralliann christian

    +515
    United States
    Christian
    Widowed
    Jesus disciples continued water Baptism as Christs disciples.
    Joh 4:2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
    Cornelius was baptized...
    Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
    47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
    48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

    +5,778
    United States
    SDA
    Married
    Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize - but He himself did not baptize anyone.

    Matt 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

    Jesus himself WAS baptized... by John.

    And Romans 6:1-10 makes it clear that baptism is a symbol of uniting with Christ in death and in resurrection.
     
  6. HTacianas

    HTacianas Well-Known Member

    +6,128
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Single
    There is no evidence that Jesus baptized by full immersion because Jesus never baptized anyone. See John 4:2.
     
  7. disciple Clint

    disciple Clint Well-Known Member

    +3,503
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Well no we dont. We know that Jesus was baptized in a river, we do not know that it was by immersion or by pouring or actually anything about how it was done specifically. There is nothing in the Bible that prescribes the method of baptism therefore as long as the intent is clear and the baptism is done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the method of applying water is limited only to it flowing across the head of the receiver. Any flow would be sufficient as long as the intent and wording is correct. Interestingly the person preforming the baptism does not even have to be a Christian. All this is clear in the history of the early Church.
     
  8. AdamjEdgar

    AdamjEdgar Member

    172
    +72
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Mere semantics...the point is, John baptised with water, why is there no evidence Jesus did this, and if it was a new ritual started by John, how was that function fulfilled between Johns death and day of Pentecost?
     
  9. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

    +2,393
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    It was not a new ritual but a Jewish one. From the Jewish Virtual Library:

    During the Second Temple period (roughly from 100 B.C.E. to 70 C.E.), the Jewish population in Palestine had a very distinctive practice of purification within water installations known as mikva'ot. Large numbers of stepped-and-plastered mikva'ot have been found in excavations in Jerusalem, in outlying villages, as well as at various rural locations.


    Early on in Christianity, baptism already has some requirements as described in the first century document, The Didache (or The Teachings).

    CONCERNING BAPTISM
    Baptize in this way. Having instructed him in all of these teachings, baptize the catechumen in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in running water. But if you do not have running water, then baptize in other water. And if you cannot in cold water, use warm. But if you have neither, then pour water on the head three times, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
     
  10. MMXX

    MMXX I Got Vaccinated

    +1,311
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    I've never heard that before.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  11. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

    +2,393
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    As I recall (and I might be wrong), Augustine said that if there were two non-Christians, one could baptize the other. It was more of a thought experiment than a practical situation.
     
  12. MMXX

    MMXX I Got Vaccinated

    +1,311
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    What about a herd of them? (I'm making fun of my typo).

    I remember talking to a couple of Mormon missionaries once, and one asked me if I had been baptized. I said yes. And he asked by who's authority? That's when I concluded later from scripture that no authority was required other than being a disciple of Christ. And maybe even not that according to Augustine.
     
  13. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

    +2,393
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Well, once you get the herd baptized, then they start arguing :p
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  14. Maria Billingsley

    Maria Billingsley Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,613
    United States
    Christian
    In Relationship
    Clearly John made a distinction between his water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit by Jesus Christ of Nazareth. This baptism would first occur on the day of Pentecost and spread to all who believe. Though some denominations claim that John's baptism of water saves, it is actually Christ's baptism with the Holy Spirit that brings us into His Kingdom. His baptism has nothing to do with physical water and everything to do with living waters.
    Blessings.
     
  15. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +4,735
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The very definition of the Greek word baptizó means to dip, sink, or submerge.
     
  16. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +29,698
    Anglican
    Married
    In fact, we do NOT know that. Baptism by immersion is of course valid and it does have symbolic value, but any claim that immersion was the norm or, worse, that it is necessary in order for a Baptism to be valid, is without real evidence. It's all an assumption.

    Nor is this "mere semantics," as you later wrote. You made immersion be your first point, even though you then moved onto something else.

    Still in all, this subject has been debated here many times and there's probably no reason you cannot give it another try.
     
  17. plain jayne

    plain jayne Active Member

    242
    +330
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I've always believe Jesus to have been immersed:

    Mark 1:10-11 = "At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

    If he were "coming up out of the water" then he must have been down in the water.
     
  18. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +4,735
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    In Acts 19 Paul came across 12 men who had been baptized by JTB but had not yet received the a Holy Spirit so Paul had to baptize them again, this time they were baptized in Jesus’ name then they received the Holy Spirit. I’m thinking perhaps John wasn’t doing a Trinitarian style baptism or perhaps it was because he didn’t baptize in Jesus’ name.
     
  19. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

    +29,698
    Anglican
    Married
    As I said, it's an assumption. Coming up "out of the water" is not coming up from under the water.

    All that the Bible's wording tells us is that, after the baptism, Jesus left the river and walked up to higher ground--exactly what any of us might say, under present circumstances, to the kids if we want them to come out of the lake or river and into the house. Every body of water is by definition lower than the surrounding banks, and if you are knee-deep in it to begin with, you are certainly going to go "up" when leaving the water.
     
  20. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

    +2,393
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    That is the general notion of John's baptism. Scripture does not really tell us what phrasing he was using. Most likely he was using a Jewish, maybe Essene, formula. He would not have been using a Trinitarian formula since the Trinity had not been revealed. It is only with the Great Commission that the disciples are given full instructions for the Christian baptism.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
Loading...