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Why is the Nicene Creed never sung?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by GoingByzantine, May 14, 2019.

  1. GoingByzantine

    GoingByzantine Seeking the Narrow Road Supporter

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    When I was an Eastern Catholic, we always sang the Nicene Creed in the same tone as this video:



    Since I converted to the Holy Orthodox Church I have never seen the creed sung. Not at my church and not at any of the dozens of Orthodox churches I have visited. Is there a reason for this? Is there a fear that the choir will dominate it and the laity won't profess the creed? I find the Nicene Creed to be beautiful, even more so when it is sung.
     
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  2. Platina

    Platina Active Member

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    In my experience, it's generally not sung in the Byzantine tradition but is sung in the Russian tradition (I can't remember how others like Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria do it).
     
  3. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree with your reason as to why it's not sung.
    The words are not readily understandable and it IS a statement of faith.

    Would you care to tell me why the E.O. church prefers the creed from 381 to the one of 325?
    What I've learned is that the Early Christians preferred the one from 325; (this was declared at the council of 425 AD. )
     
  4. rusmeister

    rusmeister A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian

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    It is an irony of my life that I can’t sing it in English and I can’t just recite it in Russian. It is only sung in my church here in Russia.
     
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  5. Anhelyna

    Anhelyna Handmaid of God Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    In our tradition [ Russian] we say the Creed on Weekdays and sing it on Sundays - but it's always in English ;)

    We always sang it in the UGCC Church I was in before - but in Ukrainian then
     
  6. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    in the more Russian traditions it is sung in my experience.
     
  7. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Yes I've heard it sung. The parishes were (iirc) OCA with a heavy influence of Russian parishioners. It was hauntingly beautiful.

    I can only recite it, since I've only heard it sung a handful of times.
     
  8. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    :heart: It's beautiful.

    Whatsoever things are lovely...
     
  9. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    We always sing it
     
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  10. truefiction1

    truefiction1 Fool

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    Always sing it here.
     
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  11. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I’ve never heard it spoken except for some weekday services in some parishes. On Sundays I’ve always heard it sung. That said, most of my experience is in OCA or Russian churches.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  12. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Which council in 425? I may be missing something, but the main council I know of in that century was the council of Chalcedon in 451. That council ratified the council of Constantinople -thereby ratifying the creed from 381.
     
  13. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Hmmm. Let me see if I could find something online.
     
  14. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    @All4Christ

    What I know is that the Nicene Creed was written in 325 AD at Nicea.

    Then there was a subsequent council in 381 AD that made some changes to it..

    and, finally, in 451 AD (I said 425, sorry) it was decided that the Nicene Creed (325 AD) was more acceptable, and that is the one that was ratified.



    Here is something:

    The Nicene Creed
    It is known for certain that the Nicene Creed was adopted by the Council of Calcedon in 451AD which claimed it was the faith of the Council of Constantinople of 381AD. Its origin however goes back to the Council of Nicea (in modern day Turkey) called in 325AD by the Emperor Constantine to address the Arian controversy. Eusebius submitted a Creed from his own Diocese, Caesarea, and this appears to have formed the basis of the creed propagated at Nicaea although there were other older creeds that could have been considered. The Creed affirmed the unity of God, insisted that Christ was begotten from the Father before all time, and declared that Christ is of the same essence (homoousios) as the Father. It had only a single brief clause on the Holy Spirit. In its present form it appears to have been used by Cyril in Jerusalem and is also mentioned by Epiphanius of Salamis around 373AD.


    source: http://archive.churchsociety.org/crossway/documents/Cway_093_CreedsHistory.pdf
     
  15. MariaJLM

    MariaJLM Crazy Cat Lady

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    My Ukrainian parish ALWAYS sings it.
     
  16. Mary of Bethany

    Mary of Bethany Only one thing is needful. Supporter

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    We (OCA) always sing it, using the same composition you posted. We also always sing the Our Father. I have noticed, the few times I’ve visited Greek or Antiochian parishes that they don’t sing either one.

    I’m glad we do sing them.
     
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  17. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I don’t see anything in the text saying that the earlier version was more acceptable. The closest thing I can find is as follows:

    Essentially, it says that the initial Nicene Creed was fully accurate. It also states that the exposition of the Nicene Creed (what we have today) is accurate and necessary for uprooting the heresies which had “sprung up”. The updated creed didn’t change or reject the creed initially proclaimed. Rather, it clarified it more in order to address heresies. This, essentially, is how our councils worked - addressing heresies and definitively stating what is the Orthodox faith.
     
  18. GodsGrace101

    GodsGrace101 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What you posted sounds like a catechism from a church (denomination). It says that the Nicene Creed is pre-eminent. This is what I've always understood to be the case.

    I did not mean to imply that the future creeds were not accepted.
     
  19. All4Christ

    All4Christ ✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙ Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    So the answer to your question of why we use the longer creed:

    The heresies addressed still exist today and always will. The Nicene-Constantinople Creed captures the core of the Christian faith in a creed, including the refutation of common heresies. We proclaim that faith today.
     
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