WHY is pre marital sex a sin?

[seeingeyes]

I'd be really curious to see a study of a social group with an environment conditioned by

1. a state with no-fault divorce
and
2. a church that strongly discourages divorce for any reason other than abuse or infidelity

with the study aiming at finding any correlation between premarital sex (or not) and divorce (or not).

Essentially, the question would be: Is there any correlation between rates of premarital sex and rates of divorce, and for what reasons, among churchgoing persons who largely do not believe in no-fault divorce but may practice it?

Someone contact the Harvard Sociology Department.

These numbers are good for the number crunchers, but I think that divorce is not the definition of a failed marriage, rather it is one possible result of a failed marriage. There are other possible results of a failed marriage that simply aren't so easily calculated.

On the whole, though (in our culture anyway), premarital sex seems to make divorce rates go down. That's to be expected when fewer people get married in the first place.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I've never heard anyone say that their divorce was easy.

I've never heard anyone sane say marriage is easy.

 

[Kristos]

The analogy of Christ and His bride is quite a strong one. I've tried (maybe awkwardly, and with some uncertainty) to build a sexual ethic using it. So if you cannot enjoy the benefits of the union with Christ without first becoming (part of) His bride the Church, what does that tell us about sex. And without making the OP go off tangent too much - can you extend it beyond premarital sex and apply the same concepts to homosexual acts, divorce or masturbaton? Christ is the groom, the church is the bride... any deviation away from this is sin.

I think you can apply it to these as well - and it still applies within marriage - a husband must love his wife like Christ loves the church - anything less is missing the mark. No doubt we all missing the mark, but sometimes I think we are aiming at the wrong target... Lord, forgive me a sinner.

 

[seeingeyes]

I've never heard anyone sane say marriage is easy.

You're right!

But I don't think it's fair to say that divorce is an "easy out". It's not "easy". And for people with kids, it's never completely "out", either.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

You're right!

But I don't think it's fair to say that divorce is an "easy out". It's not "easy". And for people with kids, it's never completely "out", either.

I wouldn't know. but from seeing people go through them and how insane they become, I'm more than willing to agree. Unless that person has no conscience at all.
I do remember breaking a boys heart. I did not intend to but I did lead him on a bit before being truthful about not sharing the feelings for him that he had for me. When I realized how bad my indifference could harm another I felt such shame.

So why is premarital sex a sin? Because it denies commitment and cares nothing of the heart of the other. Not much different from hate.

A nice lady was telling me just recently that marriage was just a piece of paper and it really didn't mean anything. She told me she'd been living with a man for two years and that a piece of paper or a marriage wouldn't change anything. I asked her why, if it wasn't going to change anything, didn't she do it? She gave me a mile long list of things it would change. I smiled and said, I agree. It does change things.
Giving excuses for our sins makes us look so foolish. Almost always when we are presenting our excuse we show we have no excuse at all.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

These numbers are good for the number crunchers, but I think that divorce is not the definition of a failed marriage, rather it is one possible result of a failed marriage. There are other possible results of a failed marriage that simply aren't so easily calculated.

On the whole, though (in our culture anyway), premarital sex seems to make divorce rates go down. That's to be expected when fewer people get married in the first place.

I'm sure that there can be failed marriages that don't end in divorce, but where completely legal, no-fault divorce is the law of the land, most marriages that don't end in divorce probably can't be seen as irreparably failed but rather "stagnant" or "miserable." They haven't been terminated and there is greater hope for revival than when two people pursue a legal separation. That's why I included the second variable.

As for premarital sex and divorce rates, whatever the correlation in our society, I don't think it's well established that one causes the other. Correlation does not equal causation, and I've seen zero data to suggest that the higher rates (that is, percentage) of premarital sex cause causes lower absolute numbers of divorce.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I'm sure that there can be failed marriages that don't end in divorce, but where completely legal, no-fault divorce is the law of the land, most marriages that don't end in divorce probably can't be seen as irreparably failed but rather "stagnant" or "miserable." They haven't been terminated and there is greater hope for revival than when two people pursue a legal separation. That's why I included the second variable.

As for premarital sex and divorce rates, whatever the correlation in our society, I don't think it's well established that one causes the other. Correlation does not equal causation, and I've seen zero data to suggest that the higher rates (that is, percentage) of premarital sex cause causes lower absolute numbers of divorce.

I doubt if premarital sex is a direct cause of the divorce rate. But the two are very similar in nature. Both have a selfish nature. Selfishness does not mix with commitment to another. Marriage is a death and rebirth. Me and I dies and we and us is born. There are reasons the Orthodox marriage has martyr's crowns being placed on the couples heads. It's not just a show but a reality.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Marriage is a death and rebirth. Me and I dies and we and us is born. There are reasons the Orthodox marriage has martyr's crowns being placed on the couples heads. It's not just a show but a reality.

Part of me wonders if the reason my marriage failed was because our "me and I" never died and gave way to "we and us".

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Part of me wonders if the reason my marriage failed was because our "me and I" never died and gave way to "we and us".

Oh my dear brother. That is why every marriage fails. Don't answer this if you don't want to: Did the failure strike you like a death in the family? I mean did it cause you to grieve in that fashion. Seems that I hear that a lot and it makes perfect sense to me.

 

[seeingeyes]

As for premarital sex and divorce rates, whatever the correlation in our society, I don't think it's well established that one causes the other. Correlation does not equal causation, and I've seen zero data to suggest that the higher rates (that is, percentage) of premarital sex cause causes lower absolute numbers of divorce.

Oh yes, you're right. But the biggest predictor of success in marriage (where success means they stay together) is the age of the couple when they get together. The older, the better.

So it would make sense that a society that has a somewhat lenient view of premarital sex (i.e. does not restrict sex only to marriage), would tend to have lower divorce rates than one that does not (all other things being equal) because there would be less incentive to marry young.

 

[ChristsSoldier115]

I like some of these responses, but I'm still wondering the answer to the OT days of guys having many wives. How does that work within the modern christian idea of marriage? I guess it doesn't since nobody but a few off-string Mormons practice it[if I want to really consider mormons christians to begin with]?

 

[Messy]

I like some of these responses, but I'm still wondering the answer to the OT days of guys having many wives. How does that work within the modern christian idea of marriage? I guess it doesn't since nobody but a few off-string Mormons practice it[if I want to really consider mormons christians to begin with]?

I heard that in a church in Israel it's allowed if they have multiple wives with kids and they get saved. They just can't take a new one after they converted. I think it was the same in the New Testament, only elders had to be husbands of one wife.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

Oh yes, you're right. But the biggest predictor of success in marriage (where success means they stay together) is the age of the couple when they get together. The older, the better.

So it would make sense that a society that has a somewhat lenient view of premarital sex (i.e. does not restrict sex only to marriage), would tend to have lower divorce rates than one that does not (all other things being equal) because there would be less incentive to marry young.

The older the better? I hope we are speaking of spiritual maturity.

Isn't it odd that the divorce rate began to climb just as we put older age limits on marriage? What many of our Grandparents did would not be allowed today. my grandmother was 14 and remained married over 50 years and unto the death of her husband. He was 18 and today would be jailed for that.

I'm not really completely disagreeing with you. With the way children are taught today I think older would be better. We are seeing a generation taught that self gratification trumps all. It takes a bit of age to discover they've been taught a lie. Sex has been cheapened and financial success and self happiness is promoted as being far more important than the happiness of others.

Yes sister, you have a good point there.

 

[OGM]

Also it is difficult to raise a child with only one parent working. So we strive to have higher incomes because we need that just to pay for the family insurance.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I heard that in a church in Israel it's allowed if they have multiple wives with kids and they get saved. They just can't take a new one after they converted. I think it was the same in the New Testament, only elders had to be husbands of one wife.

What God has allowed and God's design for us are not the same thing. Generally this was a practice reserved for kings or wealthy rulers. It was more about procreating children than being about having multiple partners.
Whether we take Genesis as literal or not, it paints a picture of God's plan for mankind. God gave the man a wife. He could have easily made another from his other side but He didn't.
When I think of a man having multiple wives I can see only one way they could remain married. The wives would have to remain silent about how this really sucked for them. Seems both David and Solomon faced big issues doing this and it's recorded in scripture to show us it's not the best way.
Now if the women had had many husbands I doubt the practice would have lasted as long. we'd have ended it on our own. Men are much harder to train.

 

[Gnarwhal]

Oh my dear brother. That is why every marriage fails. Don't answer this if you don't want to: Did the failure strike you like a death in the family? I mean did it cause you to grieve in that fashion. Seems that I hear that a lot and it makes perfect sense to me.

I believe so, yes. The divorce is slated to be finalized on March 27. I think it's hitting me harder now than it did six months ago when everything ended (or started as the case may be). I'm starting to question whether I'm truly aware of what's happening...

I do think it's like experiencing a death though, I'm losing the one who was my companion and best friend for over four years.

 

[OGM]

Divorce can hit VERY hard...yes, like a death in the family.

 

[Mama Kidogo]

I believe so, yes. The divorce is slated to be finalized on March 27. I think it's hitting me harder now than it did six months ago when everything ended (or started as the case may be). I'm starting to question whether I'm truly aware of what's happening...

I do think it's like experiencing a death though, I'm losing the one who was my companion and best friend for over four years.

I will keep you and her in prayer. This brings me to tears.

 

[GratiaCorpusChristi]

I doubt if premarital sex is a direct cause of the divorce rate. But the two are very similar in nature. Both have a selfish nature. Selfishness does not mix with commitment to another. Marriage is a death and rebirth. Me and I dies and we and us is born. There are reasons the Orthodox marriage has martyr's crowns being placed on the couples heads. It's not just a show but a reality.

I had no idea that those were martyr's crowns. Interesting! I wanted to have them in my wedding as another nod to my wife's Ukrainian culture, but being west Ukrainian their crowns are typically floral and I wasn't going to wear lavender floral headgear at my wedding.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I will keep you and her in prayer. This brings me to tears.

Thanks Mama K, that means a lot.

I had no idea that those were martyr's crowns. Interesting! I wanted to have them in my wedding as another nod to my wife's Ukrainian culture, but being west Ukrainian their crowns are typically floral and I wasn't going to wear lavender floral headgear at my wedding.

I would've thought that was awesome, kind of reminiscent of antiquity, like the olive wreaths that the Caesars wore or something but a much more pure symbolism.