Why is pleasure bad? Why do we suffer?

[ArmyMatt]

I have a somewhat related question that's bothering me.

Since God is unchanging, how can we have a relationship with him? We cannot change God, so doesn't that mean that we cannot affect God in a relationship? If we cannot have pleasures, desires, will, or self, but are supposed to find those all in God, how is that not just equivalent to an authoritarian force imposing their nature upon us, rather than a loving father/husband? Where am I in God? How is there room for me at all, if all earthly pleasures are evil? How is it at all reciprocal back and forth kind of love if nothing in God can be reciprocated, nothing can be changed? Who even am I without my desires and self will? It seems I'm just an empty shell that God is spiritually raping.

why do you need to change someone to have a relationship with them?

 

[Nathaniel Red]

why do you need to change someone to have a relationship with them?

Thats a fair point. I guess the question is more that, it seems that while God expects us to change everything about ourselves around him, we don't have any similar expectation of God to change or help us in our life with personal desires or pleasures or anything that sets us apart as us. We are just meant to completely submit to him like a slave under his foot until we no longer care about anything at all except him. If there was a romantic relationship where they never let us have any pleasures or things we want, never compromises, keep us in a state of suffering that we are told is going to be beneficial for our soul in the far future, wouldn't that sound like abuse? At what point can I say that I will no longer budge, and there is something I need to have for this relationship to continue? At what point can I have my own identity, and expect it to be answered with a yes, and have God allow it?

There are certain things and people I want in my life that I don't think I could ever part with, even for God. Things that are essential to who I am, and even to why I believe in the first place. To take that away would take away every reason i have to believe or care about God that hasn't already been taken away. And yet, If I falsely am putting my trust in earthly desires rather than God, then I am in a state of rebellion against God. What do I do?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thats a fair point. I guess the question is more that, it seems that while God expects us to change everything about ourselves around him, we don't have any similar expectation of God to change or help us in our life with personal desires or pleasures or anything that sets us apart as us. We are just meant to completely submit to him like a slave under his foot until we no longer care about anything at all except him. If there was a romantic relationship where they never let us have any pleasures or things we want, never compromises, keep us in a state of suffering that we are told is going to be beneficial for our soul in the far future, wouldn't that sound like abuse? At what point can I say that I will no longer budge, and there is something I need to have for this relationship to continue? At what point can I have my own identity, and expect it to be answered with a yes, and have God allow it?

There are certain things and people I want in my life that I don't think I could ever part with, even for God. Things that are essential to who I am, and even to why I believe in the first place. To take that away would take away every reason i have to believe or care about God that hasn't already been taken away. And yet, If I falsely am putting my trust in earthly desires rather than God, then I am in a state of rebellion against God. What do I do?

no, we care about God above all else, and then our other cares fall into their proper place. if God is infinite goodness, then I seek that goodness so that I can properly be good to others, to creation, etc.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

no, we care about God above all else, and then our other cares fall into their proper place. if God is infinite goodness, then I seek that goodness so that I can properly be good to others, to creation, etc.

What if there is a care you have that is the very reason you believe in God in the first place? To put it in its proper place in God would paradoxically threaten your belief in God completely, while to ignore it is to threaten your relationship and faith in God. Is there some third option where God and I can compromise? Or will an unchanging and thus uncompromising God want to force this upon me no matter what? Why can't I put my foot down sometimes and say that I will not let this go? Doesn't God care about what I care about?

 

[ArmyMatt]

What if there is a care you have that is the very reason you believe in God in the first place? To put it in its proper place in God would paradoxically threaten your belief in God completely, while to ignore it is to threaten your relationship and faith in God. Is there some third option where God and I can compromise? Or will an unchanging and thus uncompromising God want to force this upon me no matter what? Why can't I put my foot down sometimes and say that I will not let this go? Doesn't God care about what I care about?

well, He’s not forcing anything on you. you either follow Him or not. those who follow Him find eternal peace and joy, those who don’t find temporal peace and joy (maybe), which only leads to torment. the choice is yours of what to do.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

well, He’s not forcing anything on you. you either follow Him or not. those who follow Him find eternal peace and joy, those who don’t find temporal peace and joy (maybe), which only leads to torment. the choice is yours of what to do.

I guess I'm going to hell.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I guess I'm going to hell.

why? if you seek God first, then everything else you desire will be in its proper order.

 

[TedT]

Why is pleasure bad? Why should we have to suffer?

All pleasure felt by a sinner includes some degree or other of sin. It is the willingness to sin that causes suffering, not the pleasure.

The suffering of those being sanctified (ie, who are coming closer to GOD, is to open their eyes to their abiding sins which keep them separate from GOD. By trial and error we are trained in righteousness. Each error, each sin we choose, is chastised with a pain perfectly suited to encourage us to repent fully to encourage us to choose only holiness. It is our stubbornness against the Holy Spirit that keeps us in this system of painful sanctification, the system which is taught to us in Hebrews 12:5-11.

 

[Nathaniel Red]

why? if you seek God first, then everything else you desire will be in its proper order.

I didn't find your answers satisfying, so I went to my priest for the first time in months, and I think I've actually gotten some good answers. I'm sorry if I've offended you at all, please forgive me for my sinfulness and please pray for me. You are right, I need to suffer more, though I hate it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I didn't find your answers satisfying, so I went to my priest for the first time in months, and I think I've actually gotten some good answers. I'm sorry if I've offended you at all, please forgive me for my sinfulness and please pray for me. You are right, I need to suffer more, though I hate it.

you never offended me at all, so no worries. plus, it’s better you went to your priest. you’re gonna get better answers that way than an Internet forum.

 

[ArmyMatt]

and, if I may, can you share what was said? if not, totally understandable.

not trying to pry or be nosey, it’s just that I need all the help I can get.