Why is Jesus called the Word?

ViaCrucis

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Not certain on the delineation of person of Jesus here and His Word...He is the Word made flesh, yes. Revelation 1 has a depiction of the person of Jesus with a sharp, double-edged sword in His mouth or coming from His mouth. He also speaks of His Word, seemingly separately, in passages such as "my words shall never pass away". I for one do not have it entirely sorted out in my mind, but agree with you that He, Jesus, IS the Word made flesh.
As I noted earlier it is the anointing we receive from the Holy Spirit which teaches us about all things as per 1 John...the Comforter Jesus promises to send...and the Spirit with whom He baptizes us and enlightens us. The Holy Spirit works through God's Word to bestow faith. Am I only proving the Trinity here? Jesus and the Holy Spirit as One? Please comment. Someone?

The Word is a Person, because Jesus is the Word.

The Scriptures are not that Word.

It's really this simple.

The Word that is living and active is not Scripture, but the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten of the Father.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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throughfiierytrial

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The Word is a Person, because Jesus is the Word.

The Scriptures are not that Word.

It's really this simple.

The Word that is living and active is not Scripture, but the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, Jesus Christ, the only-begotten of the Father.

-CryptoLutheran
Could you expound on the comment you make..."The Scriptures are not that Word."
I assumed the Scriptures were that Word...I believing this found it a bit confusing yet accept it by faith.
What then is the Word referring to (in John 1) if not His Word, the Scriptures...the Truth. A passage comes to mind...John 17:17 (I believe) Sanctify them by Thy Truth; Thy Word is Truth. Can one make a connection here then...Jesus and the Word/Scriptures/Truth...in your view?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Could you expound on the comment you make..."The Scriptures are not that Word."
I assumed the Scriptures were that Word...I believing this found it a bit confusing yet accept it by faith.
What then is the Word referring to (in John 1) if not His Word, the Scriptures...the Truth. A passage comes to mind...John 17:17 (I believe) Sanctify them by Thy Truth; Thy Word is Truth. Can one make a connection here then...Jesus and the Word/Scriptures/Truth...in your view?

The Word in John 1 is Jesus Christ. There are three Persons in the Trinity, the Father, the Son (Word), and the Holy Spirit. The Second Person of the Trinity, the Word, became a human being in the Incarnation, that's what John 1:14 means.

Scripture uses "word" in multiple senses.

"The word of the LORD" refers to the the prophetic utterance given to the ancient Prophets.

When David says, "Your word are a lamp unto my feet" he is referring to God's commandments in the Torah.

When Paul and the other apostles speak of delivering the word, preaching the word, etc, they are referring to the message of the Gospel.

Context is necessary.

In the first chapter of John "Word" refers to the Divine Person of the Trinity who became human, He is Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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setst777

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No, it doesn't imply that at all. I was outlining the traditional, orthodox interpretation of the verse: the Logos is God in the same way that the Father is God.

I'm not going to reply in detail to your massive unattributed quote, because it's from an unreliable source.

The Greek scholars were given, and their teaching on John 1:1 is readily available on the internet, just as I have quoted.

You write:
However, let me in turn quote:

A long string of writers has argued that because theos, 'God', here has no article, John is not referring to God as a specific being, but to mere qualities of 'God-ness.' The Word, they say, was not God but divine. This will not do. There is a perfectly serviceable word in Greek for 'divine' (namely theios). More importantly, there are many places in the New Testament where the predicate noun has no article, and yet is specific. -- D.A. Carson, The Gospel According to John

In response,

I can see you did not read the response I gave you, and are spouting off things that misrepresent Christian doctrine.

Firstly: There is no evidence to show that D.A. Carson is a Greek linguistic scholar.

Secondly:
No Greek linguistic scholar I listed in my post ever mentions that Jesus is "divine."

No Greek scholar I listed ever stated that:
The Word only has "mere qualities of 'God-ness.'"

All Greek scholars are unanimous that "The Word" is deity - fully God, but not God the Father.

All Greek scholars agree that "The Word" being deity means that The Word is qualitatively God, being of the very nature or essence of the God with whom the Word is associated in John 1:1.

The Word is qualitatively fully God being of the nature of the God whom The Word is with. This is the Christian doctrine of the Word.

Evidently you did not read my post at all, because you misrepresented the scholars I quoted. And you misrepresented the Christian Scriptures, the Christian Church and the Nicean Creed, and Chalcedon Creed, all of which state that Jesus (the Word) is by nature God and fully deity being of the substance of the Father, but not God the Father.

You erroneously stated that my quote of John 1:1 was a Jehovah's Witness view, which was false. The quote I gave of John 1:1 is the common translation of John 1:1 in most Christian Bibles.

In fact, the very link to John 1:1 (click the link) given on this message board is the very translation I quoted. Are you saying the most Bibles quote a translation that teaches Jehovah's Witness doctrine of The Word?
 
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throughfiierytrial

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The Word in John 1 is Jesus Christ. There are three Persons in the Trinity, the Father, the Son (Word), and the Holy Spirit. The Second Person of the Trinity, the Word, became a human being in the Incarnation, that's what John 1:14 means.

Scripture uses "word" in multiple senses.

"The word of the LORD" refers to the the prophetic utterance given to the ancient Prophets.

When David says, "Your word are a lamp unto my feet" he is referring to God's commandments in the Torah.

When Paul and the other apostles speak of delivering the word, preaching the word, etc, they are referring to the message of the Gospel.

Context is necessary.

In the first chapter of John "Word" refers to the Divine Person of the Trinity who became human, He is Jesus Christ.

-CryptoLutheran
Agree that context is necessary and many Biblical terms can be used in multiple senses. Usually such occurrences are easily sorted out by reading and as you say context. John 1 seems a bit unique to me however in that I do not see Jesus referred to as the Word. Perhaps because I do not read Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek, or just a stumbler for me. I do not see Word in John 1 as harkening back to O.T. wording. It is a very unique title and it may have many ramifications if it is the Word of God. God spoke and it came to be...everything was created through Christ says Colossians, meanings such as these.
So, I ask you, is there an OT reference of Jesus named the Word...clearly stated or symbolically provided? Again, the Word became flesh seems to just crop up and questions left as to why is it the Word/word became flesh? Difficult for me to "word" my question, sorry. Perhaps you're tired of my tedious questions however and I understand that too...will have to do a little reading on it perhaps.
 
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setst777

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The Church's confession, that the Logos is God even as the Father is God, on the basis of John's Prologue is clear. The Prologue mentions two: God and God. Indeed, we have God the Word who is in the beginning with God [the Father]. And for this reason, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God".

-CryptoLutheran

We both agree that the Word is fully God. However, in your quote above, you show that the Father is God and that the Word is God, being two.

As you state:
"he Prologue mentions two: God and God."

This would imply that we have two Gods.

Are you saying that Christians teach that John 1:1 means that their are two Gods?
 
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Radagast

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There is no evidence to show that D.A. Carson is a Greek linguistic scholar.

He's an expert on the New Testament who's written numerous scholarly commentaries, and a professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School.

I'll take his view (and that of all the other scholarly books on my bookshelf) over that of random websites.

But I don't wish to continue the conversation further.
 
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Radagast

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John 1 seems a bit unique to me however in that I do not see Jesus referred to as the Word.

"Logos" is perhaps better than "Word," because it's a name. It doesn't refer to the Bible.

John 1:1-3 says: In the beginning was the Logos/Word, and the Logos/Word was with God, and the Logos/Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:14-15 says: The Logos/Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”)

The part in brackets refers to John 1:29-30: The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’

So putting the three passages together, the Logos/Word is God, and the Logos/Word became flesh, and that flesh is called Jesus.

Therefore Jesus is the Logos/Word incarnate as a human being.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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"Logos" is perhaps better than "Word," because it's a name. It doesn't refer to the Bible.

John 1:1-3 says: In the beginning was the Logos/Word, and the Logos/Word was with God, and the Logos/Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:14-15 says: The Logos/Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”)

The part in brackets refers to John 1:29-30: The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’

So putting the three passages together, the Logos/Word is God, and the Logos/Word became flesh, and that flesh is called Jesus.

Therefore Jesus is the Logos/Word incarnate as a human being.
Thank you Radagast.
My problem is more that Jesus being referred to as the Word seems to not appear until here, unless we can possibly say that where the OT says "the Word of the Lord" came to me, it is referring to Jesus as well. I imagine if this is possible that the Word...written, spoken, prophesied or any form...would not be an all-encompassing definition of Jesus the person of the Trinity. I conclude we just don't know and need not know.
 
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Radagast

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My problem is more that Jesus being referred to as the Word seems to not appear until here

Some things were only revealed when Jesus walked the Earth. What's so surprising about that?

unless we can possibly say that where the OT says "the Word of the Lord" came to me

Like I said, it might be better to think of "Logos" as a name, rather than of words.

And many people think that "the angel of the LORD" in the OT was the Logos.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Some things were only revealed when Jesus walked the Earth. What's so surprising about that?



Like I said, it might be better to think of "Logos" as a name, rather than of words.

And many people think that "the angel of the LORD" in the OT was the Logos.
Hello Radagast,
Yes, many, including myself, believe Jesus was the OT Angel of the LORD...it is supported by OT Scripture.
This does not rule out that He is the Word as well...not that you claim this or that you do not believe Jesus to be the Angel of the Lord.
I do believe that the introduction of Jesus as the Word can be just that, an introduction as such. I continue to ponder the idea that He is also the literal Word of God...living and active Word of God. No answer need be found out as it does not modify my stand on salvation issues...just more a matter of interest.
 
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Radagast

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throughfiierytrial

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I believe it too.



In the OT, "word of the LORD" refers to a message, not an entity.

But in John 1, Logos (Word with a capital letter) refers to an entity, God the Son.
Yes, agree that "word of the LORD" refers to a message, not an entity, however, perhaps the NT is rounding out that understanding of the message or Word...quick and alive; sharper than any double-edged sword. Just letting you know what I am wondering about and thinking through. Your point is well taken. Not saying I am correct in even considering this.
 
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ViaCrucis

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We both agree that the Word is fully God. However, in your quote above, you show that the Father is God and that the Word is God, being two.

As you state:
"he Prologue mentions two: God and God."

This would imply that we have two Gods.

Are you saying that Christians teach that John 1:1 means that their are two Gods?

No. It means that there are two Persons, both equally God.
 
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setst777

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No. It means that there are two Persons, both equally God.

Yes, you are correct - two persons, one God. And with God's Holy Spirit, that makes three persons. Blessings.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes, you are correct - two persons, one God. And with God's Holy Spirit, that makes three persons. Blessings.

Correct. And in the Prologue we have mention of two of those Persons; God the Father and God the Word.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes, agree that "word of the LORD" refers to a message, not an entity, however, perhaps the NT is rounding out that understanding of the message or Word...quick and alive; sharper than any double-edged sword. Just letting you know what I am wondering about and thinking through. Your point is well taken. Not saying I am correct in even considering this.

But the "word of the LORD" isn't Jesus.

The Word mentioned in Hebrews 4:12 is not a what, but a Who. That Word is Jesus Christ, as we read in Hebrews 4:13 that "no creature is hidden from His sight". Christ, our Judge, discerns the innermost parts, able to divide even the soul and spirit, knowing us deeper than anyone. It is before Him all must stand before on the Final Day at the Judgment.

"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account." - Hebrews 4:12-13

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Radagast

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But the "word of the LORD" isn't Jesus.

The Word mentioned in Hebrews 4:12 is not a what, but a Who. That Word is Jesus Christ

I very, very seldom disagree with you, but every commentary I've read says that the word in Hebrews 4:12 is the message from God. In Revelation 1:16 that message comes from the mouth of Jesus.

The use of Logos/Word as a name for God the Son is only in John, I think.
 
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