Why is it ok to be a fat pastor but not a gay pastor?

[alan650]

Definitely! Awesome!

Yes we all fall short and we all mess up from time to time.. I agree with you too, it's so beautiful when we go a long period of time without falling into error, sometimes it makes it all the harder when we do find ourselves coming up short one day, always when we least expect it.

Well God bless you greatly and increase in you more and more with each passing day. You have a beautiful testimony, an inspiration to all!

I'll place you on my prayer list and will pray for you daily.

I thank you for doing the same for me. I can always use prayer..

Amen! Thanks for the prayers. We Christians need to remember the most important commandment to love each other. It can be hard sometimes! Lol.. I will definitely pray for you. God bless you. Jesus Christ is the only one with saving power from all evil and darkness.

 

[alan650]

Neither are you in my shoes. You do not know what anyone else has been through or have been delivered out of.

I made no mention of praying harder, neither did I quote any verse......neither still, have I offered any condemnation.

You condemn your self, and proclaim that you have too remain in whatever situation you find your self in.

You have proclaimed that there are things that God cannot do.

I say that this is wrong concerning the true and living God, for there is nothing impossible for Him. Are you willing to believe this?


I knew a woman with an issue of blood all her life. She was considered unclean. She spent all she had to try and fix her situation and was none the better.

She did not give up or concede to her issue.....she tried Jesus.

Are you willing to try Jesus?


What I find condescending, is the fact that you deem your issues greater than those of everyone else. You raise you issue so high that even God cant reach it.

If you try making God greater than your issues, there will be no situation or circumstance, that you have to remain in longer than you desire to remain in them.

I apologize for my words and if they were condescending. I know God is greater than everything of course. However the problem is always in our sinful nature. Like I said above I go through long freeing periods where my gay struggle does not trip me up. I know of what a huge cross it is to bear such a weakness as this. Sorry if I made my issue sound greater than anything you were going through. We must all lift each other in prayers.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Amen! Thanks for the prayers. We Christians need to remember the most important commandment to love each other. It can be hard sometimes! Lol.. I will definitely pray for you. God bless you. Jesus Christ is the only one with saving power from all evil and darkness.

For the prayers I am disabled so remember that when you pray.. I'm open about it here, but of course I don't often speak of it so.. lol... probably not everyone knows or anything...

Yes. We all need one another, to lift one another up and encourage each other in Christ. And I agree, we need to show more love, we sometimes fail in that....

 

[topher694]

I am trying, etc...

But if your looking for me to bow down to you, or be forcefully submitted to you then I just have to tell you that you are barking up the wrong tree, OK...?

But I maybe did get a little out of line maybe a few times maybe, and for that I am sorry, OK, and will try to do better, etc, OK...

Sorry if you felt disrespected, etc, OK, etc...?

I'll try to "behave" a little better from here on out, OK...?

God Bless!

I said nothing close to submitting to me, but... OK

 

[klutedavid]

There will be few in heaven then because all people are sinners. What is the answer? Live a perfect life? Why did Jesus give His life again?

I agree with you that Christ has reconciled us to His Father and we do not reconcile ourselves.

Yet, we cannot ignore what Paul said to the Galatians. We must walk in the Spirit and put to death the deeds of the flesh.

 

[klutedavid]

./


I already told you one thing that might be included in order to make my point. And I never disagreed gluttony was a sin, just hat it isn't damnable.

How do you know that gluttony will not lead you to hell?

Galatians 5:18-21
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

That is a long list of sins. If you also include 'and things like these', then we have every other manifestation of the flesh, obviously.

Do you believe that gambling for example is a minor sin?

 

[jamesbond007]

Good grief. It's been clearly established that being overweight is not always a result of gluttony. That clarification does nothing to answer the spirit of the OP's question. Why the double standard when it comes to homosexuality? It's a legitimate question and the answers so far have not done much to explain, imo.

No double standard as they're both sins.

However, we cannot just fire a pastor for being overweight as it may be due to a medical condition. Also, one has to give them a chance to lose weight and correct their condition.

OTOH, an outward gay pastor would disrupt the church and other clergy. One has to accept them and gay marriage or not when God has forbade it. I'm a Methodist and it has split the church.

 

[Kenny'sID]

How do you know that gluttony will not lead you to hell?

Galatians 5:18-21
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

That is a long list of sins. If you also include 'and things like these', then we have every other manifestation of the flesh, obviously.

Do you believe that gambling for example is a minor sin?

How do you know it will? I showed you something rock solid when it comes to practicing homosexuality leading to hell, while you haven't shown me anything but could be's when it comes to gluttony.

What will you have gained anyway, even if gluttony was a damnable sin? Then you have people going to hell for both gluttony and Homosexuality...so?

Does that somehow make homosexuality ok? I really don't get your point.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Thanks for trying to help. I definitely have a relationship with Christ and do know it's not about "rule keeping". However it is so freeing when I go through long periods of time where my same sex attractions don't trip me up. I am sure you've been at a spot with God where you've messed up and it's a terrible feeling. Through these years God has taught me so much about his true nature. However there's been periods where I've fallen in weakness with my gay struggle. I have to remember to keep my eyes on Christ Jesus so I don't trip. Just keep me in prayer and I will definitely keep you in prayer. I feel we all have areas that trip us up more than others.

Hello, Alan

You yourself said we forget the part of Christianity that includes love, so what is that really? Don't upset anyone? Or upset them if you must in order to try to show them the truth as one sees it? You decide, and that's not to say this will upset you at all, but it does some.folks. That said, I'd like to touch on what you said about it not being about the rules.

Those feelings you say you get when you keep or even break those rules. It's the exact same feelings for those that feel the rules are a huge part of Christianity, (I'll give example in a moment) which IMO is a huge indication it is about the rules as well as faith, as a matter of fact, following the rules is faith in action, or faith we can see, not just say/claim.

IMO, those feelings are the Holy Spirit telling us we must do good in order to get to Heaven, and the good feeling is the feeling we are secure in going to heaven/on the right track. The bad feeling is a warning to get back on track. This is not something I want to debate or argue, I've done enough of that and though it may at least plant a seed, all I would have to say would be what you have probably heard before, so take it or leave it, up to you.

To drive the point home on the "doing good" that I mentioned being a must, I'll leave you with the following because it's a little easier to take than the list of sins that are damnable if one lives them as a lifestyle:

Straight from the mouth of Jesus:

John 5:28- “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.

You seem very sincere, so this is not me being judgmental, we all sin, but only to say, whether or not we do good as opposed to evil, makes all the difference. Fortunately God is slow to anger, and repentance is always available, and all that is necessary to get back on the right track from living in sin.

Much, if not all of that, you probably know, but just in case.

 

[klutedavid]

How do you know it will? I showed you something rock solid when it comes to practicing homosexuality leading to hell, while you haven't shown me anything but could be's when it comes to gluttony.

What will you have gained anyway, even if gluttony was a damnable sin? Then you have people going to hell for both gluttony and Homosexuality...so?

Does that somehow make homosexuality ok? I really don't get your point.

Gluttony is a deed of the flesh.

Romans 16:18
For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

Philippians 3:19
Whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

Do you understand the difference between the desires of the flesh and the spirit?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Gluttony is a deed of the flesh.

Romans 16:18
For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Christ but of their own appetites; and by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.

Philippians 3:19
Whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.

Do you understand the difference between the desires of the flesh and the spirit?

I understand the difference between proof of what someone might claim, and no proof. Thank you, that is all I asked for, proof solid.

Now what good does it do the Homosexual if the Glutton is going to hell too? What is the the point of pointing out gluttons?

 

[Peter J Barban]

Isn't the point of this thread to show that homosexuality is not sin?

If so, the issue of gluttony/fatness is a red herring.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

funny how sin is relative to those it affects.

Yes, mankind has been dealing with that for a very long time.

Self deception -- a hard one to conquer.

M-Bob

 

[Beanieboy]

There are some, even in the bible, who feel that one can serve God more when remaining single. Is this such a terrible idea to ponder? Serving God more freely?

The God I serve can do anything..... the is nothing impossible for Him. Do you feel the same about the God you serve?

Does He not have the power to change your desires if you do not wish to have them anymore?

Is there anything too hard for your god?

For Christians with same-sex attraction, do you think we haven't prayed about it? Because I smile when I hear my same story, starting at 13 or 14, not just praying to be changed, but pleading, crying ourselves to sleep, and this prayer over many, many years.

And sometimes, God says no.
Can he change people? God has no limits.
Personally, I know people who went all in
to change - went to conversion therapy, dated and married someone of the opposite sex, had children, only to come to the conclusion that they were lying to themselves, and hadn't changed at all, which was difficult for the wife and children.
One example

And another

But I have a question for you: Have you ever gone to God and discussed it in prayer?

 

[dzheremi]

Societal forces make homosexuality a matter of anthropology (what it means to be a person) in a way that is not the case with regard to gluttony. Even those who push for so-called "fat acceptance" (which is also against traditional Christian anthropology) from what I've seen generally don't go the "born this way" route with it. So it's less an attempt to deform the human nature, and more of a personal struggle.

In Christianity, you are not what you repeatedly do, whether with regard to food, or to sex, or desires for what have you. You are what God created you to be, and made in His image no matter what subsequent labels you put on yourself or society puts on you. The entirety of the Christian struggle against the passions is precisely this turning away from the 'old man' and striving to be as we were and are all meant to be, even as it is impossible in this life (hence Theosis). The problem is that any worldly ideology ever tells us anything else, so that we get stuck in our heads that to be 'true to ourselves' is somehow the highest goal, and of course we are the best judge of our own selves and know ourselves best. This is all false, and vanity to boot. Recall the words of the holy saint and apostle St. Paul: "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?" He was not saying this with regard to homosexuality or overeating (at least not as far as we know), and yet it applies to these and all things.

We do not need acceptance for whatever our sins are; we need deliverance from them and from this entirely sick and worldly anthropology, and insofar as we can and must cooperate with God in this, it is a constant combat. Read the Desert Fathers and Mothers sometime. They'll tell you, as it has always been this way. Christianity is not the religion of "I'm O.K., you're O.K.", no matter how much people want to make it into that because it's easier and feels nicer. Christ our God is not just the true lover of mankind, He is also the just judge, and it will be much better for everyone who struggles in anything to adopt a true spirit of repentance for all of our many sins, not to feel bad and call it a day and think that we have repented because we felt bad, but because true prayer involves this very real surrendering of the edifice that we have made of ourselves, in submission to God before Whom we can neither hide nor justify anything.

 

[klutedavid]

Isn't the point of this thread to show that homosexuality is not sin?

If so, the issue of gluttony/fatness is a red herring.

I thought that this thread was pointing out that a fat minister in sin, is not any different to a gay minister in sin?

They are both examples of the deeds of the flesh.

Here is the OP.

So why is it acceptable to be a fat pastor in sin, but not a gay pastor in sin?

Neither is acceptable of course.

 

[klutedavid]

I understand the difference between proof of what someone might claim, and no proof. Thank you, that is all I asked for, proof solid.

Now what good does it do the Homosexual if the Glutton is going to hell too? What is the the point of pointing out gluttons?

I think the OP is illustrating the hypocrisy of those that call out the sin of others. While at the same time are blind to their own sin.

Matthew 23:25
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I think the OP is illustrating the hypocrisy of those that call out the sin of others. While at the same time are blind to their own sin.

Matthew 23:25
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

But are we dong that? Or are we pretty well (as a rule) quite about it until a homosexual comes here and starts going on about how the bible really doesn't condemn homosexuality, (or any general promotion of such) then they turn around and point the finger at those who disagree, playing the "Why accuse us when you sin too" card, when the card doesn't really exist..

Sad to say but people who promote wrong things, doesn't really matter what it is, *will* twist and turn things, attempt to deceive, or even be flat out untruthful, because it's the only way they can make wrong seem right/evil seem good.

 

[RaymondG]

For Christians with same-sex attraction, do you think we haven't prayed about it? Because I smile when I hear my same story, starting at 13 or 14, not just praying to be changed, but pleading, crying ourselves to sleep, and this prayer over many, many years.

I said nothing of praying or whether or not one has prayed. But I will say something now about it: I do not believe that "pleading, crying ourselves to sleep" constitutes prayer.

And sometimes, God says no.

I know nothing about this god....save that many people do serve him.

Can he change people? God has no limits.
Personally, I know people who went all in
to change - went to conversion therapy, dated and married someone of the opposite sex, had children, only to come to the conclusion that they were lying to themselves, and hadn't changed at all, which was difficult for the wife and children.

Yes, I am also aware of stories of failures. The women with the issue of blood consulted many doctors......spent all her money to try to fix her issues in the medical field. Maybe she did things to hid her issue as well, from the public.....for she would not have been allowed out otherwise. After all this, she was none the better.

Until she tried Jesus. After trying Jesus.....He was not given an option to say "no." The woman knew what she needed, knew how to get it, and went and got it....

Do you believe that we should be able to do the same?

But I have a question for you: Have you ever gone to God and discussed it in prayer?

Discuss what in prayer? The woman did not talk about the issue with Jesus....She went and got her healing. I, likewise, do not go to God about sin and condemnation.....I go to Him for righteousness and salvation.

Therefore, I offer you no condemnation......Ignore the hope I give you, if you desire.....If you change your mind....it will still be waiting for you.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Matthew 23:25
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.

I should comment on that as well. That scripture is often used as as a defense by those who want to promote doing wrong. IOW, many of us are simply not full of "robbery and self indulgence" And because someone says wrong is wrong, that does not make them that hypocrite.