Why is God evil and why is there no freedom of choice?

[Luke Baker]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

 

[singpeace]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

Hi Luke. My name is SingPeace.

It’s easy to think of God as a tyrant because He made man knowing that man would sin. But we can't forget that God lavished His kindness on us by giving us life, eyes to see the sunrise, ears to hear the birds, taste buds to enjoy good food, and so many other good things, which we rarely even recognize (Psalm 68:19; Romans 14:17).

God is also a God of justice. His very nature demands both perfect justice and perfect love. So what did God do about man’s sin? He gave His life on an unspeakably cruel cross, taking the punishment for our sin, so that we could escape being justly punished in hell.

The Bible tells us that all of us are desperately wicked and deserving of hell. We broke God’s Law (the Ten Commandments). Yet Jesus paid our fine, knowing every sin we would commit before He made us. Because of His sacrifice, He can legally dismiss our case. Upon our repentance and faith in Jesus, we can leave the courtroom innocent. He invites all of us to receive this free gift.

Such knowledge of the kindness of my heavenly Father tides me over until He chooses to answer the questions I can’t.



https://answersingenesis.org/sin/why-did-god-create-mankind-if-he-knew-man-would-sin/

 

[Aryeh Jay]

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[Luke Baker]

Welcome to the Forums Luke! I admit, it does seem a bit perplexing, but not everyone believes in an eternal damnation for nonbelievers. The Bible says that God created both good and evil (Isiah 45:7) and I am a pretty good example of freedom of choice here!

Thanks for the reply!

But how does one know what to believe and not to believe in the bible? Surely picking certain parts that take our fancy and seem more likely, isn't following the word of God?

 

[Winken]

Thanks for the reply!

But how does one know what to believe and not to believe in the bible? Surely picking certain parts that take our fancy and seem more likely, isn't following the word of God?

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall become a Christian. You'll be equipped to understand and accept the Word of God.

 

[Lulav]

Hi Luke and Welcome!

I am going to move your thread to a place where you can continue this discussion as the Introduce yourself forum is not for heavy discussion. Just follow the link and you can continue there!

The SOP of this forum is found HERE​

 

[Lulav]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

Now that we are in the correct forum and I've reopened the thread, let me have a go at answering your questions.

God is all knowing and all powerful.

Yes

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists.

That is because he allowed Free will to choose to believe in him. It breaks his heart when they choose not to and He does everything within his own laws to prevent that. Back in the days of the prophets G-d said:

"All his transgressions which he has committed will not be remembered against him; because of his righteousness which he has practiced, he will live. 23 "Do I have any pleasure in the death of the wicked," declares the Lord G-D, "rather than that he should turn from his ways and live? 24 "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.…

Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know.

Yes, but a very famous verse in the NT tells us (John 3:16)

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.…

But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

No, G-d is righteous and Holy, he made rules that show us how we are to relate to him and to others of his creation. When we follow these it brings life. That is what he wants us to have.

Again In the book of John 10:10 we read Jesus saying:

9 "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
10 "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
11 "I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.…

You have a choose whom you will follow. Even back after the Exodus Moses speaking for the L-RD gave the people a choice, even after He told them how to do the right thing,

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving the L-RD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the L-RD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."

Jesus told us what to choose as well.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14"For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

There is always a choice, from the very beginning, in the Garden, they were told to choose life, but instead choose Knowledge of Good and Evil. We live on today with that same choice. G-d wants us to choose Good, to choose him, but those that don't choose not to be with him and that is what Hell truely is, a place without G-d.

 

[Soyeong]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

Welcome.

Christianity supports both the concepts of free will and divine foreknowledge and there are many ideas as to how that works. For example, you might find this article on Molinism interesting:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molinism

Another way I've found useful to think about would be like a video game. There are certain plot points that happen every time you play through a video game, such as starting in the same location, getting the same people to join your team, beating the same levels, and defeating the final boss. If you were to start playing through that game, then I could accurately predict that those plot points, but at the same time, there are all sorts of decisions in between those plot points that I could not predict, such that no two times that you played through the game would be exactly the same.

God gave us free will, so we are ultimately responsible for the decisions that we make. It would not be a real choice if God did not allow us to choose not to follow Him.

Thanks for the reply!

But how does one know what to believe and not to believe in the bible? Surely picking certain parts that take our fancy and seem more likely, isn't following the word of God?

It's not a matter of believing or not believing certain parts of the Bible, but rather it is a matter of interpreting it differently. However, not all interpretations are created equal, so it requires study.

 

[AionPhanes]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

Not all Christians embrace the idea that God is omnipotent. Some Christians also hold that Gods omniscience applies only to that which has already occured.

I reject the omnipotent qualifier and I'm agnostic as to the possibility of God's omniscience applying to the future for example.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thanks for the reply!

But how does one know what to believe and not to believe in the bible? Surely picking certain parts that take our fancy and seem more likely, isn't following the word of God?

Hi Luke,

I'd like to insert something here, real quick. The whole gripe about Christians "picking and choosing" bits and pieces from the Bible, which unbelievers like to frequently cull out and toss onto Christians, is contingent on unbelievers establishing that they not only know the Bible, but that they also are thoroughly familiar with the art and science of Hermeneutics and the practice of exegesis. I often find that unbelievers don't know squat about this, which is unfortunate, because it's one thing to read the whole Bible---which is all fine and dandy---but its a whole other thing to actually be able to analyze it, interpret it, and then understand it.

So, while a number of Christians are perhaps guilty of "picking and choosing," this fact doesn't preclude the additional possibility that the claim of "picking and choosing" gains only moderate--or less--traction in reality when used by unbelievers. Just sayin'

As a side note, I'd also like to say that yes, life is hard and most of us have little clue as to why God allows us to muddle through our own, private, existential, emotional hells. Yes, He does this, just as He did with His own Son, Jesus. ....On the other hand, He also often offers glimmers of hope and light to those of us who are paying attention and are willing to apply themselves to His will and grace.

2PhiloVoid

 

[terryjohn]

Men create hell on earth and vainly imagine they will not continue to do so in the after life. They then abuse God for giving them such choices? At best we can only call on God to set us free from this bondage of sin and death then and only then will we be free to choose.

 

[Mediakira]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

And God makes people who think they are the chosen ones who love Him and do what He asks for us to do! I have sins and things that I did are wrong too. And I have days were I'm no saint. I'm trying to follow the path that God wants to follow with Jesus Christ. As, of right now I'm trying not to hurt people. My love for God has put me in a place where I want to kill the wicked for Him. But Jesus wants me to love your enemies. God must have known this too?

God can burn me into hell because of murder anytime. Even God's lap dogs like me get the judgement as well. A good student waits and use love for any reason. But God still loves me! So He kills a piece of me that makes me serve Him. My name is Harvest, so I'm not trying to hurt people with this understanding that is my job to sort out the evil and good, kill the wicked men.

So, I'm sorry atheist man, that I wronged you. Not everyone under God is right in the man's eye, and his understanding.

 

[Albion]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

You assume that they'll burn in hell simply because they don't believe in him. That's your error.

 

[aiki]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

Yes, God is all-knowing and He is incredibly powerful.

Yes, He does create humans knowing that some will become atheists and will, if they refuse to repent of their rebellion toward Him, spend an eternity in torment in hell.

It does not follow, though, that because this is true God is therefore evil and freedom of choice does not exist. A couple that conceives a child know that the child will suffer some physical hurt, and emotional pain, and eventually death; their child will make some good choices and some bad ones; their child may even make some really bad choices. But does knowing this make them responsible for the experiences and choices (good or bad) of their child? Of course not! We don't put the parents of an axe-murderer in jail because their child made murderous choices! We don't put the parents of a child who gets ill, or who breaks their arm playing football, or who flunks math into jail! That would be silly! But this is essentially what you're trying to do with God. Just because He knows we will do evil and will suffer for it, doesn't mean He is responsible for the evil we do.

You really would help your understanding in this area if you took a look at Molinism as Soyeong has suggested.

Selah.

 

[Neogaia777]

Those men were created with a choice, all men are presented with a choice, they could have chose good and not to reject Christ, God is omniscient but his omniscience can see all POSSIBILITIES with predestination points often called crossroads, these are predestined points along our life choices where we make a critical choice, but God's omniscience plans around and emcompassess all our choices

 

[food4thought]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

Luke, are you still following this thread? I want to answer you, but the answer is somewhat long and I don't want to waste my time if you aren't still here.

 

[chilehed]

God is all knowing and all powerful.

So he creates humans knowing that some will choose to become atheists. Because he is all knowing before they are born he already know. But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

So God must be evil and freedom of choice doesn't really exist.

So anyone who has kids is evil?

This is the argument of a juvenile delinquent who blames his parents for the screwed up choices he makes.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Luke Baker. God is Love and we have the choice to follow Jesus back to God, or choose Outer Darkness, without God`s Love and Light. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself. ( neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: " ask and you shall receive," we ask God for Love and Joy, then we thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. We keep asking and receiving, then thank God and share all love and joy with our neighbour. God will see our loving efforts, and God will Bless us. We might stumble and forget at times, but then we ask God to forgive us, and carry on loving and caring,
be kind and always friendly.
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again," give up our selfish wishes and wants, and start being loving and caring. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the way: JESUS IS THE WAY.
A Christian`s weapon is Love, with love we can overcome all anger and wrong behaviour. Love is very catching.
God is Love, and Galatians tells us: Galatians 6: 7-8: God will not be mocked, whatever man sows, he will reap.
What could be fairer? I say this with love, Luke Baker. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Matthew Twentyfour]

But he still creates them anyways knowing that they are going to go to burn in eternal hell.

Hell is not eternal.

Revelation 20:14 (KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

[chilehed]

So anyone who has kids is evil?

This is the argument of a juvenile delinquent who blames his parents for the screwed up choices he makes.

Besides, being an atheist isn't what gets you into hell. You send youself to hell by choosing to do things that you know are wrong.