Why is desiring Heaven so important?

[grasping the after wind]

The whole idea of heaven is internally contradictory. If it doesn't sound exciting to you, then I congratulate you on your perception. A big park where you can bask in the holy sunshine for ever and ever...remarkably childish, only slightly above seventy-two virgins.

If anyone actually considered that park of yours to be heaven you would be right to call them childish. As childish as misrepresenting what people actually believe perhaps? . To quote Dylan "don't criticize what you can't understand.". However, if it makes you feel better to think that park scenario of yours is what Christians believe then you go ahead and take comfort in your little fantasy.

 

[ananda]

It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

This is one of the reasons I left Christianity for Buddhism. I came to realize that heaven and salvation wasn't my main goal ... cessation of discontentment and suffering was my true goal instead.

Some believe that achieving heaven and salvation will give them cessation of discontentment and suffering. For others, the idea of eternal life causes them to experience suffering & they seek annihilation instead. Either way, the more fundamental goal for both seems to be the search for cessation of discontentment and suffering.

 

[VCR-2000]

I love this subject. I have a sister who says she can't stand cities, and doesn't really even like being around people --certainly not for eternity! --why would she ever want to be in THAT city then, no matter how nice it is? Partly, I have to note that nothing in heaven is a copy of what we have on earth. God is not made in our image, nor is this passing frame we inhabit what God uses as a pattern for Heaven. In fact, WE ourselves are not very much like what we will be.

At the risk of missing all the beauty of what will be happening up there, I want to mention two things:

One is that we ourselves will be God's dwelling place and that he will be ours --I think that is literal. And related to that --that we who are the literal members of the Bride of Christ will indeed love each other as ourselves, being members of one another.

The other, that will become so plain and natural once we see him as he is, is that he himself is all that is real and good within us. We will see him to be our very sustenance, without which we would cease to exist. The passage that started me studying this was this from Matthew 11: "28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” On its face, it sounds almost ludicrously self-contradictory. He considered his yoke easy and his burden light. I cannot myself imagine a more heavy burden than what was put before him to do --not only to live sinlessly for us, but to take our cosmic treason against himself upon himself, and suffer the very consequences of our treachery in our place. And if we take that upon us, not only will we there find our rest, but we will learn of him.

In Heaven I have every reason to believe we will be so active in learning of him, like a bride desires her husband, (only what a silly picture our experience of such a thing is compared to the real thing!) and that we will be so very hard at work that we would cease to function at all, were He not our sustenance --and there we find our rest. I am referring to work --not toil --it will be pure joy and praise and discovery. This will be our HOME. Finally, the very thing for which we were made!

You know I believe the imagery of Jesus as a "groom" is emasculating. I want to be able to be a man.

 

[com7fy8]

You know I believe the imagery of Jesus as a "groom" is emasculating. I want to be able to be a man.

That's an image, mainly to bring out how we are family and so intimate, with God and one another, actually better than how I think you know a lot of married humans are, really.

In Jesus, we are better than male or female. What our bodies are is not our identity. But ones born in sin can be very infatuated with how their bodies are, because they are concerned about if they can use their bodies to get the pleasures they treasure.

In Jesus, "there is neither male nor female" > in Galatians 3:28.

Plus, we can see how in God's love Paul and Silvanus and Timothy were able to love people in all the best ways of family caring and sharing >

"we were gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children" (in 1 Thessalonians 2:7)

"we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children" (in 1 Thessalonians 2:11)

In God's love, we are not only motherly or fathering, but the best of all, since God created mothers and fathers, from His one love.

So, this is what really is worthy of our attention.

 

[Neogaia777]

This is one of the reasons I left Christianity for Buddhism. I came to realize that heaven and salvation wasn't my main goal ... cessation of discontentment and suffering was my true goal instead.

Some believe that achieving heaven and salvation will give them cessation of discontentment and suffering. For others, the idea of eternal life causes them to experience suffering & they seek annihilation instead. Either way, the more fundamental goal for both seems to be the search for cessation of discontentment and suffering.

You know that's all good and fine, and well and good, and we should "try" to do that in this world while we are here, but, it's not gonna happen without "The God"... He tells us the truth, about things we don't easily understand or comprehend, like suffering, and that in this world you will have trouble and trials and tribulations, but not to lose heart, ect, and have courage in and when dealing with them, even running out to meet them, ect...

To "glory" and rejoice in them, revel in them ect... And why...?, because we (will) have a much closer and much deeper fellowship with Him is we are sharers in His sufferings, which are really all of our sufferings and things we go through, ect...

You can't change this world or man, because the underlying problem is with man, or this fallen existence, without having a or the very personal God who desires to get very personal with us; "who is a God who suffers, and suffered", more than most of us know... Who came as a "suffering servant".... But for the few that do know or might know, even in part, can you not tell me how much more closer that brings you to Him, for the few that might or do...

We have a God who suffers and/or suffered, and had emotions and feelings, a very personal, but yet very high God, and if we get some kind of sort of or any kind of clue understanding that, or bridging that gap, (how High or Great God is compared to us) (distant, ect) through our own sufferings, it gives us insight into Him, and creates greater closeness, to where you should have fellowship with Him...

You gonna tell me there is no other world besides this one, and this reality is the only reality, and there is no such thing as higher beings, in "all of this" (everything)...?

You gonna tell me "all of this" did not have a source...?

That there are no other (higher) beings or intelligence's out there, or here with us right now...?

Seeking the Kingdom of God (Heaven) is seeking God, and "The God" of everything, and there is nothing wrong with that...

God Bless!

 

[BNR32FAN]

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

Nowhere does the Bible say anything about campfires and kumbaya but imagine a world of paradise where you could literally walk up to any person you’ve never met and give them a hug and even having never met before that person would be very happy to receive and return that hug. It’s a place where there is no pain, no sickness, no heartache, no hate, no ridicule. A place where everyone loves everyone. Personally I don’t see how that can not be appealing. Then there’s the alternative place of eternal suffering in the lake of fire. I think heaven is much more appealing than hell. It’s either or there’s no other alternative places to go.

 

[Neogaia777]

You know that's all good and fine, and well and good, and we should "try" to do that in this world while we are here, but, it's not gonna happen without "The God"... He tells us the truth, about things we don't easily understand or comprehend, like suffering, and that in this world you will have trouble and trials and tribulations, but not to lose heart, ect, and have courage in and when dealing with them, even running out to meet them, ect...

To "glory" and rejoice in them, revel in them ect... And why...?, because we (will) have a much closer and much deeper fellowship with Him is we are sharers in His sufferings, which are really all of our sufferings and things we go through, ect...

You can't change this world or man, because the underlying problem is with man, or this fallen existence, without having a or the very personal God who desires to get very personal with us; "who is a God who suffers, and suffered", more than most of us know... Who came as a "suffering servant".... But for the few that do know or might know, even in part, can you not tell me how much more closer that brings you to Him, for the few that might or do...

We have a God who suffers and/or suffered, and had emotions and feelings, a very personal, but yet very high God, and if we get some kind of sort of or any kind of clue understanding that, or bridging that gap, (how High or Great God is compared to us) (distant, ect) through our own sufferings, it gives us insight into Him, and creates greater closeness, to where you should have fellowship with Him...

You gonna tell me there is no other world besides this one, and this reality is the only reality, and there is no such thing as higher beings, in "all of this" (everything)...?

You gonna tell me "all of this" did not have a source...?

That there are no other (higher) beings or intelligence's out there, or here with us right now...?

Seeking the Kingdom of God (Heaven) is seeking God, and "The God" of everything, and there is nothing wrong with that...

God Bless!

Now, I don't want to have or go through any kind of sufferings anymore (believe me I've had my share and think I need a break) Anyway, but when I do (and we inevitably do), I know "why" now, at least for me, and what I am supposed to get out of it and the rewards that come with it or them, again, not that I'm asking for any more, but if God chooses to take me through some (suffering), I (think) I know how I am supposed to handle it, ect, and do know what I will get from it, ect...

God Bless!

 

[ananda]

You know that's all good and fine, and well and good, and we should "try" to do that in this world while we are here, but, it's not gonna happen without "The God"... He tells us the truth, about things we don't easily understand or comprehend, like suffering, and that in this world you will have trouble and trials and tribulations, but not to lose heart, ect, and have courage in and when dealing with them, even running out to meet them, ect...

To "glory" and rejoice in them, revel in them ect... And why...?, because we (will) have a much closer and much deeper fellowship with Him is we are sharers in His sufferings, which are really all of our sufferings and things we go through, ect...

You can't change this world or man, because the underlying problem is with man, or this fallen existence, without having a or the very personal God who desires to get very personal with us; "who is a God who suffers, and suffered", more than most of us know... Who came as a "suffering servant".... But for the few that do know or might know, even in part, can you not tell me how much more closer that brings you to Him, for the few that might or do...

We have a God who suffers and/or suffered, and had emotions and feelings, a very personal, but yet very high God, and if we get some kind of sort of or any kind of clue understanding that, or bridging that gap, (how High or Great God is compared to us) (distant, ect) through our own sufferings, it gives us insight into Him, and creates greater closeness, to where you should have fellowship with Him...

You gonna tell me there is no other world besides this one, and this reality is the only reality, and there is no such thing as higher beings, in "all of this" (everything)...?

You gonna tell me "all of this" did not have a source...?

That there are no other (higher) beings or intelligence's out there, or here with us right now...?

Seeking the Kingdom of God (Heaven) is seeking God, and "The God" of everything, and there is nothing wrong with that...

God Bless!

I prefer to seek things I can know, instead of things to just believe.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

What would you find more appealing?

 

[VCR-2000]

I prefer to seek things I can know, instead of things to just believe.

And I don't think there is anything wrong about that either.

 

[Carlos234]

Alright, I want to discuss this. When I grew up being raised in my church personally and everyone else who is a person of Jesus Christ and his faith, the church enforces, almost brainwashes the idea that not only should we behave in certain "good" ways and we will be blessed eternity and peace from God, but even if we don't "feel" it all the time, they preach that he "wants" us to feel it 24/7 at the same high levels and never have it die.

I'm writing this because while I was growing up I realized that I'm not passionate and fired up about going to Heaven. I never understood why people are so excited to go there. I get that people want to meet Jesus and everyone else who got up there, but what else? A lot of church spirit now is that up there, we are only going to be all brothers and sisters in Christ (all other forms of earthly human relationships have been dissolved) singing "Kumbaya" around an eternal campfire, I don't see the appeal in that.

Why are people for Jesus (and God himself hypothetically) so ingrained with wanting to sell people how "exciting" their own idea of paradise is? Do people not put themselves in other people's shoes anymore? It frustrates me because I decided that Heaven (the one often talked about) doesn't sound that appealing right now. Anyway, since Hell and eternal torment is my only other option...

When you're forced to learn something you're not interested in at a young age you'll naturally become bored of it when you're older. Especially when it concerns the black and white rules of Christianity today. The reason you feel this way is because you're not interested in religion on the whole. It's because you're bored of having to do the same thing over and over again without seeing any results. You want to feel as if you've achieved something through the worship of God. You feel this way because you haven't entered the spiritual path through your own curiosity but because it pushed onto you.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. - Albert Einstein

You need to escape such a tormenting cycle and truly understand for yourself what God is, what He wishes for you and the true definition of religion. What are the underlying common principles of all religions of world. Research and answer this for yourself, break free from the psychological fear placed on you and ignite within you the dwindling flame of curiosity. Question everything and come to your own conclusion. Do not simply sit, listen and accept like a robot. Know your worth. Be courageous. You'll never know the absolute Truth unless you look at something from all sides.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

If anyone actually considered that park of yours to be heaven you would be right to call them childish. As childish as misrepresenting what people actually believe perhaps? . To quote Dylan "don't criticize what you can't understand.". However, if it makes you feel better to think that park scenario of yours is what Christians believe then you go ahead and take comfort in your little fantasy.

Oh yes - I can see from this thread that Christians have a very clear idea of what heaven is like. They're not at all disagreeing with each other about nursery-level fantasies of a perfect life.

 

[VCR-2000]

Oh yes - I can see from this thread that Christians have a very clear idea of what heaven is like. They're not at all disagreeing with each other about nursery-level fantasies of a perfect life.

So far, they actually kind of do have some differences by the posts.

 

[Neogaia777]

Oh yes - I can see from this thread that Christians have a very clear idea of what heaven is like. They're not at all disagreeing with each other about nursery-level fantasies of a perfect life.

Does that mean it doesn't exist...?

God Bless!

 

[Mark Quayle]

You know I believe the imagery of Jesus as a "groom" is emasculating. I want to be able to be a man.

edited out. repeated below, sorta

 

[Neogaia777]

I prefer to seek things I can know, instead of things to just believe.

There is another (higher) way of knowing and another source of learning, and it comes through believing...

How is your religion any different from Atheist...?

God Bless!

 

[Mark Quayle]

You know I believe the imagery of Jesus as a "groom" is emasculating. I want to be able to be a man.

Ha ha, yes I have heard that before. I personally have no problem with God having a kind of masculinity as far beyond mine as Eternity is beyond Temporal.

We know from Scripture, there will be no marrying and giving in marriage there, but we will be as the angels are.

I find no end of delight in knowing that this end of man is why God created us, and what we determine to be sex and sexuality is at best a poor representation of the beautiful thing God has in store for us. I have no idea what it will be like, but I think our ideas not only fall short, but are way off from the facts there. The old way of things will be no more.

But that is what we are made for --not this.

 

[VCR-2000]

Lol, yeah, I've heard THAT before. But, there will be no marriage and giving in marriage there, but we will be as the angels are.

To me, it seems reasonable, seeing as how the ways of this temporal are a passing copy at best of things in heaven, and are not a pattern copied by the eternal, that God can be super-masculine --I don't begrudge him that. Meanwhile, we know that here on earth, females have the XX chromosomes, and males the XY.

I will save the "no marriage or giving in marriage" subject for a different thread. Right now it seems like you are almost mocking.

 

[VCR-2000]

Ha ha, yes I have heard that before. I personally have no problem with God having a kind of masculinity as far beyond mine as Eternity is beyond Temporal.

We know from Scripture, there will be no marrying and giving in marriage there, but we will be as the angels are.

I find no end of delight in knowing that this end of man is why God created us, and what we determine to be sex and sexuality is at best a poor representation of the beautiful thing God has in store for us. I have no idea what it will be like, but I think our ideas not only fall short, but are way off from the facts there. The old way of things will be no more.

But that is what we are made for --not this.

Woah, you nearly repeated a previous post.

 

[Mark Quayle]

Woah, you nearly repeated a previous post.

Ha, I wondered what happened to it. I hit a button I didn't mean to and everything disappeared. Then I couldn't find it to finish it. Maybe I can find it and edit it into something wiser than that, haha.