Why Is Abortion Legal? 1 Corinthians 6:19

[GodLovesCats]

you mean, "free...for you"

Who pays for your health care?

You mean, all your doctors are volunteers, caring for you 100% pro bono?

I never once said any such thing. All I am talking about is doing what Jesus would do, which is help those who need money instead of making rich people richer at the expense of poor people getting poorer. Jesus would help pregnant women and girls get everything they need so that they will not want to abort babies. The party that just bans abortions without doing what Jesus would do is immoral.

 

[SPF]

instead of making rich people richer at the expense of poor people getting poorer.

I know you like to parrot party lines without explaining why. But do you think this one time you can explain what specifically is being done that makes rich people richer and poor people poorer? Do you even know?

 

[parousia70]

Why should the government give money to those who can’t get jobs?
Why is it the government’s responsibility to make sure everyone can get healthcare?

For the same reasons it's the governments responsibility to provide the marketplace with an educated workforce.

Because of the constitutional mandate for Government to Promote (active verb, not passive hope) the General welfare and secure the blessings of Liberty.

 

[parousia70]

I wonder if one of these days you'll post with an actual informed, supported, coherent, and non-sarcastic position on things.

If you find the Logical Conclusion of the consistent pro life position unsupportable, uninformed, incoherent and sarcastic, I suggest you need to examine why you would argue FOR it yourself.

 

[parousia70]

I could go on and on if you need. But the simple fact is that an abortion kills a living, growing, human being that is created in the image of God and possess the same moral worth and value as you do.

Refusing to give your kidney to someone who needs it to live, Kills a living Human being that is created in the image of God and possesses the same moral worth and value as you do.

So shrugging your shoulders at abortion and saying "well, I'm not going to tell anyone what they can or can't do with their own body" doesn't cut it with this conversation because in this specific situation, doing whatever they want to their body results in the killing of an innocent human being.

Which is exactly why you shouldn't be allowed to refuse to give your kidney to someone who needs it to live. As the Pro Life position correctly argues, the Use of your personal Organs MUST be made available to a separate, distinct living human being who needs to use them to live, for that being's right to life supersedes yours, "the donor's" right to "choose" to control how and when your organs are used and by whom.

 

[Erik Nelson]

I never once said any such thing. All I am talking about is doing what Jesus would do, which is help those who need money instead of making rich people richer at the expense of poor people getting poorer. Jesus would help pregnant women and girls get everything they need so that they will not want to abort babies. The party that just bans abortions without doing what Jesus would do is immoral.

Did Jesus tax anyone and force them to pay charity ?

 

[Erik Nelson]

Refusing to give your kidney to someone who needs it to live, Kills a living Human being that is created in the image of God and possesses the same moral worth and value as you do.



Which is exactly why you shouldn't be allowed to refuse to give your kidney to someone who needs it to live. As the Pro Life position correctly argues, the Use of your personal Organs MUST be made available to a separate, distinct living human being who needs to use them to live, for that being's right to life supersedes yours, "the donor's" right to "choose" to control how and when your organs are used and by whom.

No

You walking into the hospital and shooting them would "kill" them

If you and your kidney are thousands of miles away from that person's (extremely hypothetical) demise, then you cannot be charged with the crime of capital murder

 

[Erik Nelson]

For the same reasons it's the governments responsibility to provide the marketplace with an educated workforce.

Because of the constitutional mandate for Government to Promote (active verb, not passive hope) the General welfare and secure the blessings of Liberty.

General welfare means everybody

Taxing some to dole to others harms some

Promoting economic growth that gives those on the dole actual jobs makes everybody a productive member of society (with a corresponding income) -- win win win all around

 

[parousia70]

Did Jesus tax anyone and force them to pay charity ?

Jesus and the Apostles all commanded their flocks to pay taxes.
They didn't merely suggest it.
Romans 13:6-7
For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Matthew 22:17-21
Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

Romans 13:7-8
Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Matthew 17:24-27
When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax went up to Peter and said, “Does your teacher not pay the tax?” He said, “Yes.” And when he came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tax? From their sons or from others?” And when he said, “From others,” Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free. However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for me and for yourself.”

Romans 13:5-7
Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Romans 13:2
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Matthew 22:15-22
Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words. And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are true and teach the way of God truthfully, and you do not care about anyone's opinion, for you are not swayed by appearances. Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. ...

Luke 3:12-13
Tax collectors also came to be baptized and said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Collect no more than you are authorized to do.”

Mark 12:13-17
And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to trap him in his talk. And they came and said to him, “Teacher, we know that you are true and do not care about anyone's opinion. For you are not swayed by appearances, but truly teach the way of God. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?” But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, “Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar's.” Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.

Matthew 22:17-29
Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” ...

 

[Erik Nelson]

Pro-Life groups should adopt every baby possible.
But it's too expensive for them. Their choice I guess.
This would save lives.

Well, what do people say to some government support for foster care & adoption programs?

(Isn't there already some for that?)

 

[parousia70]

No

You walking into the hospital and shooting them would "kill" them

If you and your kidney are thousands of miles away from that person's (extremely hypothetical) demise, then you cannot be charged with the crime of capital murder

If your next door neighbor needs a kidney and you are found to be a match, you should be REQUIRED by law to give it to them. otherwise you should be charged with manslaughter when they die for your CHOICE to refuse them the use of your kidney.
Their right to life SUPERSEDES your Right to Choose not to let them use your Kidney.

 

[Erik Nelson]

Where did Jesus or the Apostles lobby the pagan Roman imperial government of Caesar to pass additional taxes?

Jesus and the Apostles all commanded their flocks to pay taxes.
They didn't merely suggest it.
Romans 13:6-7
For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Matthew 22:17-21
Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

Romans 13:1-7
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. ...

Romans 13:7-8
Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed. Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Matthew 17:24-27
When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax went up to Peter and said, “Does your teacher not pay the tax?” He said, “Yes.” And when he came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, saying, “What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or tax? From their sons or from others?” And when he said, “From others,” Jesus said to him, “Then the sons are free. However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for me and for yourself.”

Romans 13:5-7
Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

Romans 13:2
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.

Romans 13:1
Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.

Matthew 22:15-22
Then the Pharisees went and plotted how to entangle him in his words. And they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that you are true and teach the way of God truthfully, and you do not care about anyone's opinion, for you are not swayed by appearances. Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. ...

Luke 3:12-13
Tax collectors also came to be baptized and said to him, “Teacher, what shall we do?” And he said to them, “Collect no more than you are authorized to do.”

Mark 12:13-17
And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to trap him in his talk. And they came and said to him, “Teacher, we know that you are true and do not care about anyone's opinion. For you are not swayed by appearances, but truly teach the way of God. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?” But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, “Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar's.” Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.

Matthew 22:17-29
Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” ...

 

[Erik Nelson]

If your next door neighbor needs a kidney and you are found to be a match, you should be REQUIRED by law to give it to them. otherwise you should be charged with manslaughter when they die for your CHOICE to refuse them the use of your kidney.

Your kidney is an organ of your body

A child is another human life

 

[parousia70]

General welfare means everybody

Universal Healthcare also means everybody....

 

[parousia70]

Your kidney is an organ of your body

A child is another human life

The Fetus, another Human Life, REQUIRES the use of the Mother's Kidney's, organs of her body, to survive while gestating. It has the RIGHT to use those Kidneys and that right SUPERCEDES the mother's Right to say "no, you can't". That is the pro Life Position.

Why do you believe that RIGHT should be stripped from that person the minute that person is Born?

Why do you believe Human Beings deserve FEWER rights after we are Born than we have while in the womb?

Do we somehow become LESS of a person, not deserving of every right we are granted at the moment of conception, after we are Born?

 

[GodLovesCats]

I know you like to parrot party lines without explaining why. But do you think this one time you can explain what specifically is being done that makes rich people richer and poor people poorer? Do you even know?

There are many reasons, so I can only speak in general terms here. It is a totally different topic that does not belong in this thread anyway but I can say this: Many women who have abortions are black and most of them are younger than 25.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Did Jesus tax anyone and force them to pay charity?

He told people to pay charity. If the government did what Jesus would do, it would pay for what pregnant women need while telling people the same thing: give what you have to help poor people live.

Wasn't Paul a tax collector?

 

[SPF]

There are many reasons, so I can only speak in general terms here. It is a totally different topic that does not belong in this thread anyway but I can say this: Many women who have abortions are black and most of them are younger than 25.

You can only speak in general terms because you are incapable of providing specifics because you can't do anything but parrot your party talking points. So again, can you be specific?

He told people to pay charity.

Verse?

Wasn't Paul a tax collector?

No.

 

[GodLovesCats]

You can only speak in general terms because you are incapable of providing specifics because you can't do anything but parrot your party talking points. So again, can you be specific?

I stated very clearly this thread is not about the specific reasons poor people don't get richer. It is only an abortion thread. So I can only be specific about reasons women get abortions.

Also, I can't memorize exact Bible references of everything I know Jesus said.

 

[SPF]

I stated very clearly this thread is not about the specific reasons poor people don't get richer. It is only an abortion thread. So I can only be specific about reasons women get abortions.

Also, I can't memorize exact Bible references of everything I know Jesus said.

Ok, so it's not a political thread, it's an abortion thread. Yet, you can make political statements without any support at all whenever you like. But since it's not a political thread, you shouldn't be held to any sort of accountability to actually support anything you say unless it's specifically about abortion?

And I didn't ask you to "memorize" anything in the Bible, but if you're going to again assert that Jesus Himself said something, you need to be able to support it.

You have a habit on this forum of not supporting anything you say. Ever. I don't believe Jesus said what you think He said.

But if you want to talk about abortion, then let's do so.

Let's consider Brenda and Jane. Both are pregnant. Both are 14 weeks pregnant, and both have very healthy babies. Both are 24 years old. Both are married and both are stay at home moms, where their loving husbands make a solid 6 figure salary.

Neither want to keep their baby.

There is one key difference.

Brenda was raped and doesn't want her baby.
Jane was not raped but wants to wait 2 more years before having a baby.

Given their situation, would you say it's moral or immoral for them to have an abortion? Is it moral for one and immoral for the other?