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Why I Left/Am Leaving The Salvation Army and Protestantism

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by Kajiki, Dec 4, 2017.

  1. Kajiki

    Kajiki Member Supporter

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    I think it's finally time for me to post this. I would love TAW's thoughts on my own.
    Keep in mind that this is more or less a giant throwing up of all my ideas and thoughts as to why I'm falling away from all of this. Please do read.


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    I would like to begin by saying that the Salvation Army (TSA) is a great organization that helps millions of people every year. This is not one of those flawed articles calling TSA a cult as it is far from it. This is also not a paper saying that all the Protestant Reformers were some evil people. Sadly, the path to Hell is paved with good intentions. I would also like to clarify that I do not believe that protestants are doomed to Hell. Salvation is given through faith and through that faith you will produce good works. It’s not enough to use good works to be saved, but it’s not good enough to simply have faith either as even the demons believe in Him. In this article I would like to shed light on why I feel I am being pulled away from where I’ve been raised and what I’ve been taught my whole life. Jesus started the Church, the Apostles carried out their mission, corruption crept in, and the church tried to root it out but through the baby out with the bathwater.

    Pentecost occurred, according to most church traditions, in AD 33. This event, recorded in Acts chapter 2, is the birthday of the Church. The Holy Spirit entered the first followers of Christ giving them a gift of speech. They suddenly could speak languages they had never studied, yet were all spoken by people in the city they were in. This allowed the Apostles, the messengers of the Gospel, the ability to tell the Gospel to all peoples, nations, and tribes. Many of the Jews in the city were shocked and thought that these men were drunk. Peter, one of the twelve apostles, raised his voice and preached to the Jews that thought them drunk. After his sermon, led by the Holy Spirit, around 3000 people were baptized and then joined the followers of Jesus. Reading Acts 2:38 we find my first issue with TSA. The Salvation Army does not actively practice baptism of new members of the Church. They cite that the Baptism of the New Testament after John the Baptist was only that of Baptism by the Holy Spirit. However, that flies in the face of what Peter says. He says that one must repent, be baptized, and THEN receive the Holy Spirit. Receiving the Holy Spirit and being Baptized are two entirely different actions. As we go on through the book of Acts baptism is brought up again and again. Then we come to Acts chapter 15. This reports on the Council at Jerusalem and how it would shape the spread of Christianity in the Apostolic Age. Gentiles were to be accepted fully, without need for circumcision, into the Christian Church. Still marching through Acts we come to Acts 16:4-5 which states that there were decrees, or doctrines, that were determined by the apostles and elders. And verse 5 goes on to say that because of this those doctrines the churches that were reached were strengthened and increased in number daily. This is just one instance of scripture condemning schismatics by saying that the apostles’ teachings are the way to strengthen a church. Acts 16 also gives us MANY more important events for the Church. The first European convert, a woman named Lydia, as well as Paul exorcizing a spirit, Paul and Silas being imprisoned, and the conversion of their jailer. Now this New Testament Church is shown to of done a handful of things just within the New Testament, things we do not do today, as Protestants (in most cases).

    It could be argued that, in an effort to rid the Church of all things Roman Catholic, Protestants managed to rid their congregations of things like Tradition, Marian Veneration, Sacramental Worship, and in some cases Episcopalian Church Hierarchy. What’s important to note is that word Protestants used in the beginning, Reformation. Martin Luther, the Father of Protestantism, was at first merely looking to reform the corrupt Roman Catholic Church. Indulgences were the main issue at hand however he also addressed several other issues with the Roman Catholic Church. Martin Luther, however, goes further once he is excommunicated. He starts to claim that the current Pope was the antichrist and he even added to scripture while attempting to remove several New Testament books from the canon. He didn’t like James, Hebrews, Jude, not Revelation because they flew in the face of his idea of deedless faith. His “Faith Alone” would go on to form apathetic Christians whom did nothing for their common man and didn’t care for their neighbor. This is why I feel Faith shown through Works is required which is what the book of James declares. If we are to believe Sola Scriptura as Protestants claim, then deedless faith is no faith at all. Yet they also hold to Sola fide or faith alone. The two are not compatible. It’s also important to note that Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura were invented in the 1500s. That’s 1500 years after Christ. To trust in these ideas is to trust in Martin Luther’s ideas. Martin Luther had good intentions initially. He wanted to weed out corruption and he pointed out good points.

    Here’s the next problem. If Protestants don’t have it right and Roman Catholics don’t have it right, who does? Did the Apostles’ deaths mark the end of the proper doctrines and proper faith? To say such a thing is true says that God abandoned His Church. He did not. The Apostles’ Church still stands and, much like how the Jewish people didn’t recognize their Messiah, Protestants don’t see it. It looks too Catholic to them. It follows traditions that we don’t understand. It calls out Roman Catholicism as having fallen away but also respects Mary above all other women (something that is scriptural). I need more time to truly accept this church as the Church but I am approaching it with prayer and an open heart.



    God Bless.
     
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  2. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ In Christ our Hope of Glory Supporter

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    Where ever it is that you find Christ is the right place for you to look. GBY in your search.
     
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  3. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    lots of what you say were issues that I had which led me to Orthodoxy. God bless you on your journey home!
     
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  4. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Yes, I can relate to a lot of that. The particulars were different (we baptized, for example, but treated it as nothing to be repeated at whim, etc., along with other deviations that were different, but deviations nonetheless.

    God bless you and guide you and have mercy on you and be with you always.
     
  5. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 auto-correct iPhone survivor

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    The Holy Orthodox Church

     
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  6. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 auto-correct iPhone survivor

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    Understandable completely. Sounds sensible. I took an entire year of visiting my Orthodox parish attending Divine Liturgy, reading, praying, talking it over with my wife, and the Lord pulled us in. I didn't jump overnight. I went through 12 years of pure hell to find the True Faith.

    You are in our prayers, love, and best wishes. I hope you convert! Everyone in this forum will feel the grace of your presence when you get chrismated. You will join the Body of Christ, and bless us all!

     
  7. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Baptized, likely?
     
  8. Abel Gkiouzelis

    Abel Gkiouzelis Coming Home

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    Hi! If you want listen this video:



    Fr. Seraphim Bell, Scotland & USA: "I became Orthodox for one reason: Obedience to the Truth"
     
  9. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 auto-correct iPhone survivor

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    ???
     
  10. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    You mentioned when he is chrismated.

    His former denomination doesn't baptize ... so he will likely have to be baptized AND Chrismated. That's all I meant.
     
  11. Kajiki

    Kajiki Member Supporter

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    Tbh writing this is hard. I have professed a call to officership (TSA minister) due to my feeling called to ministry and my passion for others. Feeling drawn to ROC now I dunno...Did I simply misplace where God wanted me and could he of actually Ben calling me to ordination with EOC as a Deacon or something? (Deacons are the social services role right?)
     
  12. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    It would be appropriate to talk to a priest about your thoughts of a calling. I don't know the answer, but simply yes it could be possible. It is important to sort out where you belong theologically before being ordained (for anyone in any denomination - not only you now) ... so I think it is right to put that first. But certainly please talk to a priest.
     
  13. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 auto-correct iPhone survivor

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    I felt called to music ministry in my previous church; I have been playing guitar for 30 years now. I was very active in my music group at church playing guitar. I gave that up with Orthodoxy HAPPILY. I am a reader now. I find it infinitely more fulfilling and grace-filled than the previous 'gig' as a guitarist. It's where God wants me.

    Take one hurdle at a time. "Which Church is the True Church and which one do I belong in?" is your main concern right now. You might find the best place for you in Orthodoxy is standing there worshipping or you might be a Sunday school teacher or a reader or who knows? One step at a time...

     
  14. Kajiki

    Kajiki Member Supporter

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    I'm just going to answer a few of these real quick.

    [Staff edit]

    Thank you so much! Even though I haven't even tasted Orthodoxy (having not yet attended Divine Liturgy in person), just by smelling the aroma of it I know it is home.

    This is very true and I agree completely. I do plan to speak to a priest.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 10, 2017
  15. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 auto-correct iPhone survivor

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    You're most welcome, Kaj!

    I will say though, it might surprise you to know I'm in an odd minority group here; I am one of few who attended a Divine Liturgy, didn't care much for it, but went back again anyway and loved it the second time onward! I went the first time and just didn't "get it." I was quite the dullard with my first experience, not fully appreciating what I was seeing and hearing and smelling. I thought the DL too long and drawn out. Looking back, what an idiot I was! You're probably a lot more "with it" than I was! You'll love it!

     
  16. Chesterton

    Chesterton Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding

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    Yes, as a charity organization they get very high marks for having low overhead. I've seen where 96 or 97% of your money goes directly to help people.
    This makes me think of an apropos slogan I've heard: Orthodoxy is Roman Catholicism without the additions, and Protestantism without the subtractions.
     
  17. gurneyhalleck1

    gurneyhalleck1 auto-correct iPhone survivor

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    Orthodoxy is Catholicism without the bingo, awful pastoral care, breathtaking levels of scandal, and bad music. Orthodoxy is Protestantism without the great Bible learning. :sorry:^_^^_^^_^

     
  18. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Hey we have great Bible learning! Our priest is an awesome teacher - and I must sleep NOW because we have a long Bible study tomorrow.

    I just wish he had chosen maybe Hebrews this year instead of Acts. Though Acts is MUCH clearer to me with the better understanding of how the early Church operated.
     
  19. Goatee

    Goatee Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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    Nice thread by the OP.

    God bless you
     
  20. Anhelyna

    Anhelyna Handmaid of God Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Kajiki

    As someone who has been through all this very recently , I've been holding back, as everyone's journey to Orthodoxy is different.

    This I will say - you need time to take in and absorb what you read - you will need to go back to things several times whilst they become clear.

    As you become at peace with what you are learning , you will realise where you need to go - and that is to Him who made you. The journey can be a bit rough and lumpy at times but you WILL get there.

    The decisions etc can only be made by you
     
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