Why I don't recommend abused women seek help from pastors or the church

[JacksBratt]

As a woman who has lived through horrific abuse from my former husband allow me to say a few things.

First, the abuse I lived through did not happen in a Christian environment, so I really don't know too much about how any church organisation handles (real) abuse but I think I should say a few things anyway..

My current husband, a Christian man, would never raise his voice to me let alone abuse me in any way. He treats me as a queen, and spoils me rotten.

So I do know how a true Christian man treats his wife, and it's not like a dog. He loves her as Christ does, and is ever forgiving, overlooking her many flaws in love.

A man who is beating his wife isn't following Christ, and a case can be made to treat such a man as an unbeliever.

The churches job is to teach scripture, and certainly there are some areas that aren't spoken of, or addressed because Christians are expected to act like Christians or be removed from the church.

Christians aren't supposed to marry non-Christians so many of these issues arise that the church is trying to deal with because they aren't removing people from church due to sin, and Christians are marrying non Christians.. or non Christians are marrying non Christians and asking the church to deal with the fall out from their unsaved behavior to one another.

This is causing a good measure of problems, from appearances, because the Biblical counselling people are seeking is for two saved Spirit filled Christians.

If my husband and I had to go for Christian counselling it would be a far different outlook and outcome than it would be for two unsaved people...

in short, what works for Christians doesn't work for those who aren't..

I think if a woman who is Christian has a truly abusive husband, she will have to consider prayerfully what to do. But if she decides to get counselling according to her faith, then she should expect to hear what's in the Book she professes to believe in and follow.

I don't think any woman should sit and take abuse - but I don't think every woman who says she's abused is actually abused either.

I think if a man raises his hand to his wife, her first move should be to find a domestic abuse shelter - and then she should pray for guidance from there on what she should do next.

This is a very good post.. thank you for your input.

 

[LoricaLady]

You don't see them because your male pastors, trained in a male-dominated seminary, don't want to see them and don't want their people to see any Bible verses that would exalt any woman above all men.

But here is one. The Jewish kings had multiple wives. King David and King Solomon had hundreds of wives. So who was the Queen? It was none of them! Their mother was the Queen, because no matter how many wives the kings had, they only had one mother. This is shown in the first two chapters of 1 Kings. In chapter 1, King David's wife, Bathsheba, one of his many wives, came to David and bowed to him. But in chapter, David had died and Solomon was now king, and Bathsheba, his mother, came to see her. King Solomon bowed before her and ordered a throne to be set right next to his throne, so that Bathsheba would sit and rule alongside Solomon. This reflects how seriously the people took the commandment "Honor thy father and thy mother". So when the Jews who believed that Jesus was their Messiah, their King, they knew what it meant concerning His mother - she would be the Queen.

And look at Hebrews 12. It says that we are approaching the souls made perfect in heaven:


22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

I bet you never had heard a sermon on this passage! I bet you never heard that we are approaching (present tense) the spirits of the the righteous. So if we can approach them then we can talk to them. And if we can talk to them then we can ask them to pray for us. And since Mary is among them we can ask her to pray for us.



This all true. But evidently that is not enough or this thread would never have been created. The thread's creator is warning abused women not to go to ministers for marital counseling because they tend to side with the husbands.



Not sure what you mean. If Catholic husbands are less likely than Protestant husbands to abuse their wives then this would prove my case.

But it not an issue of who is more likely to abuse their wives. That would be hard since there are many baptized Catholics who never even go to Church. We have to look at those who practice their faith. And the issue is which clergy would provide male chauvinistic counseling on the side of the husband. I think it would be the Protestant minister.

I am not going to argue with you. As I said, I used to Catholic. Then one day I felt led to buy a little book called Conversations With Catholics. After that I never went to another mass.

But btw I don't have any ministers trained in seminaries - though at one time I did. You know, like priests. I am what is called Messianic. There are no seminaries, just the Word.

Again, I don't want to argue. Don't have the time and don't feel it would benefit this string in any way,as it is not really about Mary or Catholicism but about domestic abusers.

Bye and blessings from the Ones to Whom all glory is given, and only given, in the Bible, namely to the Father and the Son.

 

[mkgal1]

List of a few books intended for pastors and others to be better equipped and educated on the topic:

15 Books on Domestic Violence for Pastors, Believers, and Survivors

 

[LoricaLady]

ANYONE: I really have to get off this string, as I said due to time constraints. If people post to me it seems polite to respond. But, if you don't mind too much, maybe if you want to disagree you can just post to the OP to say something contrary to what I said? People can make up their own minds about whatever has been said. May the Holy Spirit guide us all into all truth.

 

[danielmears]

This was originally posted in the marriage forum but I'm reposting here by request so everyone else may join the discussion too.

There are some good pastors out there who understand the dynamics of abuse. I've found them to be few and far between. Several dynamics are at play:

a) protection of the ol' boys
b) twisting Scripture verses about wives submitting to husbands
c) the outsized influence in the churches of the popular book "Love and Respect", aka "The Husband's Calling to Abuse His Wife" that has made many recommended reading lists and widely adapted by conservative churches; however the book plays on Bible-y phrases and concepts that are unquestioned in the filters of many conservative believers to subtly twist and shift the enactment of submission beyond anything the Bible would recognize.

Here is one story of an abused wife who sought help from the church. I'm so very sad to say this is result is more typical than not. So, so sad.

Women Say Harvest Protected Abusive Husbands, Not Abused Wives, Part Two | Julie Roys

"Love and Respect's" fingerprints are all over this part:

"However, Frers [the abused wife] said in 2012, she told Becky Willey that she was afraid to join her husband who had three months earlier moved to Fairfax, Virginia, to plant a church. Frers said Willey dismissed her concerns, saying that all she had to do was sleep with her husband and things would be fine.

Frers said this answer was typical for Becky Willey. Frers said in meetings with other pastors’ wives, Willey would teach wives that their number one role as wives was to give their husbands what no one else could—sex. Frers said Willey told wives that it was a sin for women to refuse their husbands sexually. This was one of the reasons Frers said she didn’t tell leaders at HBC Davenport about her husband’s sexual abuse. “I feared (my husband),” Frers said, “but I feared God even more.”

I am with you on this one, safety first. My dad was a pastor but also had been a police officer and probation investigator so he was aware of how abusive a relationship can become. I was a Deputy Sheriff and a Correctional Officer and have seen many abusive relationships also. Loving one another is paramount but if a partner becomes mean it is time to find help. God bless!

 

[Redwingfan9]

This was originally posted in the marriage forum but I'm reposting here by request so everyone else may join the discussion too.

There are some good pastors out there who understand the dynamics of abuse. I've found them to be few and far between. Several dynamics are at play:

a) protection of the ol' boys
b) twisting Scripture verses about wives submitting to husbands
c) the outsized influence in the churches of the popular book "Love and Respect", aka "The Husband's Calling to Abuse His Wife" that has made many recommended reading lists and widely adapted by conservative churches; however the book plays on Bible-y phrases and concepts that are unquestioned in the filters of many conservative believers to subtly twist and shift the enactment of submission beyond anything the Bible would recognize.

Here is one story of an abused wife who sought help from the church. I'm so very sad to say this is result is more typical than not. So, so sad.

Women Say Harvest Protected Abusive Husbands, Not Abused Wives, Part Two | Julie Roys

"Love and Respect's" fingerprints are all over this part:

"However, Frers [the abused wife] said in 2012, she told Becky Willey that she was afraid to join her husband who had three months earlier moved to Fairfax, Virginia, to plant a church. Frers said Willey dismissed her concerns, saying that all she had to do was sleep with her husband and things would be fine.

Frers said this answer was typical for Becky Willey. Frers said in meetings with other pastors’ wives, Willey would teach wives that their number one role as wives was to give their husbands what no one else could—sex. Frers said Willey told wives that it was a sin for women to refuse their husbands sexually. This was one of the reasons Frers said she didn’t tell leaders at HBC Davenport about her husband’s sexual abuse. “I feared (my husband),” Frers said, “but I feared God even more.”

Total feminist drivel. Those who are truly abused belong in the church and should seek out elders, pastors and Christians. Telling them to stay away and seek secular help doesn't do anyone any good.

 

[bèlla]

This was the only wise post I saw on here, though admittedly I didn't read much past the first 2 pages.

Thank you for the compliment. I have been discussing relationships on this medium a very long time. I know how threads like these will go. It is challenging to reach a balanced consensus unless everyone is willing to listen and blame is not a factor.

I have not been the victim of domestic violence or harm of any sort through a partner, family member or stranger. I don’t have a story to tell save the positive examples of manliness and femininity I was reared with under Christian auspices. I have never heard the horrors or either sex until I reached adulthood. They were never maligned.

I believe in biblical headship and submission. I am innately wired for surrender and other-centered in my relationships as I candidly described in this post.

But I have yet to find a complement in Christian circles. I have lost the benefit of likeminded women who encouraged me to stretch myself and didn’t offer excuses to behave otherwise with my companion.

I’m not seeking comfort. I’m pursuing holiness. I don’t want loopholes. I need obeisance. I have no interest in leading my companion. I was made to follow him.

I find myself in unfamiliar waters seeking the impossible. A stranger in a strange land. That’s how it feels.

 

[Endeavourer]

Total feminist drivel. Those who are truly abused belong in the church and should seek out elders, pastors and Christians. Telling them to stay away and seek secular help doesn't do anyone any good.

What are your thoughts on the situation in the article?

 

[Endeavourer]

Total feminist drivel. Those who are truly abused belong in the church and should seek out elders, pastors and Christians. Telling them to stay away and seek secular help doesn't do anyone any good.

What are your thoughts on John Piper's teachings detailed in post #21 of this thread?

 

[Redwingfan9]

What are your thoughts on the situation in the article?

The advice given isn't any good but that's no reason to discourage people from seeking advice from pastors.

The reality here is that there are two sides to every claim. I have witnessed a friend's wife lie about abuse, flat out telling him she would cry abuse to the church in order to justify getting a divorce. Deut. 19:15 teaches us that by the voice of two or three witnesses a fact is established. The church can't render judgment when it's a he said she said matter.

That doesn't mean the church can't listen and offer help or spiritual guidance. The fact that it isn't always good isn't a reason to avoid pastors. Doctors don't always offer good advice, that isn't a reason to avoid them. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

You say "That would not work" but I'm betting you have not seen it even considered.

Do you know what a deliverance ministry is? It is where you attack the devil and evil spirits. If you don't believe in that kind of thing I understand completely. I didn't use to either. Naturally in a secular world such a approach will not be taken seriously at all. I was speaking for those who work outside the secular world.

The same things are true for creative miracles. It seems you don't believe them, maybe even don't know about them.

Below is my best example of a creative medical miracle. It is proven to be true based on a lot of medical documentation and doctor reports.

Again, I don't really want to argue about it. That is pointless. Either you believe in miracles, and creative miracles in general, or you don't. As for deliverance, Messiah did tell us to cast out evil spirits and to heal the sick and raise the dead. Some people say "That was just for the apostolic age" though the Bible never says that, and many who have been healed miraculously disagree.

The faith healer, Kathryn Kuhlman, who is featured in the vid has had doctors attesting to instantaneous and creative miracles they saw for themselves, though they came with great skepticism to see the woman (now deceased.)

Oh, here is another vid where you can see a doctor - rated the best patient care doctor in Washington State at one time - saying "It is a miracle....a miracle...." that Dean Braxton, a patient of his in the ER, is alive and normal in every way. Why? Because Braxton had no heart beat and no respiration for 1 3/4 hours. Or, as the doc says, "He was really, really dead." And btw CBN investigated the medical records for 6 month before airing this. They also told Braxton that when they interviewed the doctor in the vid, he began to cry.

Yes, I believe that abusive men and women can be healed too. Messiah can do anything. But the faith for miracles and deliverance is minuscule, to say the least, in the body of believers and is rarely, if ever, addressed in the vast majority of Churches today.

As you know, for a person to accept spiritual ministry for domestic violence, he has to want it and cooperate fully with it. In my experience, this is very rare among domestic violence perpetrators.

I fully agree that it is quite possible for God to do a miracle and change the heart of a domestic violence criminal, and there are many testimonies of such men and women (by the way) coming to Christ, repenting, and being totally changed.

But if a violent crime has been committed there has to be the penalty - that is the law. Even though a perpetrator is covered by the blood of Christ, he still has to pay the appropriate penalty for his crime; and if he is genuinely converted, he will be more than happy to take the consequences for his actions. A genuinely converted believer will not see coming to Christ as a way to escape the legal system and the lawful penalty for his crime, in the same way a burglar, rapist or murderer who receives Christ. We would expect these ones, because they did the crime, they need to do the time.

I had a friend who was a very lovely Christian man, but had historic sex charges for what he did before he became a Christian many years ago. He had to do a prison sentence, even though he was totally forgiven and cleansed by God for what he did. He said they let him out early because he was leading too many of his fellow prisoners to Christ!

Also, a number of condemned Japanese war criminals were converted to Christ by a godly missionary who had been interned in Japan during the war. They told her that they knew they had to hang because of their crimes, but also knew that they were saved by the grace of God and would be going to be with the Lord. I read that in a book titled "Sensei" about that woman missionary in Japan before and during world war 2.

 

[Endeavourer]

Thank you for the compliment. I have been discussing relationships on this medium a very long time. I know how threads like these will go. It is challenging to reach a balanced consensus unless everyone is willing to listen and blame is not a factor.

I have not been the victim of domestic violence or harm of any sort through a partner, family member or stranger. I don’t have a story to tell save the positive examples of manliness and femininity I was reared with under Christian auspices. I have never heard the horrors or either sex until I reached adulthood. They were never maligned.

I believe in biblical headship and submission. I am innately wired for surrender and other-centered in my relationships as I candidly described in this post.

But I have yet to find a complement in Christian circles. I have lost the benefit of likeminded women who encouraged me to stretch myself and didn’t offer excuses to behave otherwise with my companion.

I’m not seeking comfort. I’m pursuing holiness. I don’t want loopholes. I need obeisance. I have no interest in leading my companion. I was made to follow him.

I find myself in unfamiliar waters seeking the impossible. A stranger in a strange land. That’s how it feels.

I'm glad you are taking the time to consider your choices very carefully. May God bless your path.

 

[bèlla]

I'm glad you are taking the time to consider your choices very carefully. May God bless your path.

Thank you for your kindness.

 

[Redwingfan9]

What are your thoughts on John Piper's teachings detailed in post #21 of this thread?

The smacked around comment sounds to me like it's taken out of context. He's telling her to go the church afterward, which I think is the key. He doesn't appear to be saying put up with it nightly before eventually heading to the church. He could have been more artful in his speech, I will grant that.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

The advice given isn't any good but that's no reason to discourage people from seeking advice from pastors.

The reality here is that there are two sides to every claim. I have witnessed a friend's wife lie about abuse, flat out telling him she would cry abuse to the church in order to justify getting a divorce. Deut. 19:15 teaches us that by the voice of two or three witnesses a fact is established. The church can't render judgment when it's a he said she said matter.

That doesn't mean the church can't listen and offer help or spiritual guidance. The fact that it isn't always good isn't a reason to avoid pastors. Doctors don't always offer good advice, that isn't a reason to avoid them. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

As a Ministry of Justice victim advisor, I sat through many court hearings over the 10 years, and found that a defendant getting help from his church and its pastor was a positive in the judge's view and enabled a more lenient sentence, even a discharge without conviction or a suspended sentence for a first-time offender.

For most domestic violence defendants who are charged with Male Assaults Female, the sentence is usually 9 months probation (we call it "supervision" in New Zealand), and compulsory attendance at a Stopping Domestic Violence programme. Successful completion of the pogramme involves a positive report from the facilitator showing full insight and relationship skills. If the defendant fails to attend the course, he comes back to court for an increased sentence, which can involve what we call "intensive supervison" for 12 months or more, which means he has to attend the course or go to prison for up to two years.

If a church pastor or counsellor has appropriate professional training and qualifications, a church Stopping Domestic Violence programme can be on the list of approved programmes and the judge can order a Christian defendant to attend that one instead of the secular one. This would enable the facilitator of a church programme to apply spiritual resources as well as standard resources for a successful outcome.

 

[The Righterzpen]

Thanks for the warning. But wouldn't God want the truth of be fought for?

Pray; but I agree with @Endeavourer.

Here's a resource that may be helpful.

Luke 17:3 Ministries Inc For Adult Daughters of Controlling or Abusive Birth-Families

 

[Endeavourer]

The advice given isn't any good but that's no reason to discourage people from seeking advice from pastors.

The reality here is that there are two sides to every claim. I have witnessed a friend's wife lie about abuse, flat out telling him she would cry abuse to the church in order to justify getting a divorce. Deut. 19:15 teaches us that by the voice of two or three witnesses a fact is established. The church can't render judgment when it's a he said she said matter.

That doesn't mean the church can't listen and offer help or spiritual guidance. The fact that it isn't always good isn't a reason to avoid pastors. Doctors don't always offer good advice, that isn't a reason to avoid them. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The dynamic specifically at play with pastors and abused women is the submission dynamic and the drivel in the widely popular but unBiblical books that I mentioned in an earlier post.

My ministry is to people who are suffering in their marriages and beating themselves up because they can't submit better or do duty sex better after being abused, such as the quote I cited in my original post. We're pretty good at deciphering which party has been abused due to the posture (words, phrases, allegations) of each party fairly quickly - or even if we only have just one party telling their story. When you see the same story, different day there are certain tells in the recitations that give it away, whether immediately or shortly into the interaction.

Most abuse follows a pattern which becomes somewhat predictable. Abuse is usually a power dynamic. The victim will do anything and usually has tried everything to get the abuse to stop. They'll readily accept 50% of the blame (although no blame is actually theirs) in hopes if they change themselves the abuse will stop.

(You are right, of course, that the man is not always the perpetrator. I should start another similar thread regarding men who are told to love abusive wives unconditionally. They are often told that if they don't have a good marriage then it's their fault and they aren't leading their family in the way God wants them to.)

When a pastor sees a few cases a year he doesn't have the quantity of reference points to determine this so he's often firing in the dark. He also has little or no training on how to put the reference points he has into a working solution. What tends to be the most apparent solution is for him to come down on the victim because the victim is so willing to take any responsibility and change. Also, his patient is not the abused person, or even the marriage - it's the soul of the unbeliever. In his trying to minister to the perpetrator's soul, the tender victim often gets thrown under the bus.

In the story I linked, it wasn't just a pastor who lacked experience but a trained church counselor and the whole megachurch organization that was incapable of proper care. The wife was told to submit better and to give her husband (who was one of the pastors) more sex. Otherwise, the institution ignored her plight while continuing to fellowship with their buddy, her husband.

Harvest Bible institution even sent him on a mission to plant a church while knowing his behavior towards his wife but turning a blind eye. This is what I call the old boys' club. It is not feminist drivel; it is the reality of this woman's life and, sadly many others.

 

[LoricaLady]

As you know, for a person to accept spiritual ministry for domestic violence, he has to want it and cooperate fully with it. In my experience, this is very rare among domestic violence perpetrators.

I fully agree that it is quite possible for God to do a miracle and change the heart of a domestic violence criminal, and there are many testimonies of such men and women (by the way) coming to Christ, repenting, and being totally changed.

But if a violent crime has been committed there has to be the penalty - that is the law. Even though a perpetrator is covered by the blood of Christ, he still has to pay the appropriate penalty for his crime; and if he is genuinely converted, he will be more than happy to take the consequences for his actions. A genuinely converted believer will not see coming to Christ as a way to escape the legal system and the lawful penalty for his crime, in the same way a burglar, rapist or murderer who receives Christ. We would expect these ones, because they did the crime, they need to do the time.

I had a friend who was a very lovely Christian man, but had historic sex charges for what he did before he became a Christian many years ago. He had to do a prison sentence, even though he was totally forgiven and cleansed by God for what he did. He said they let him out early because he was leading too many of his fellow prisoners to Christ!

Also, a number of condemned Japanese war criminals were converted to Christ by a godly missionary who had been interned in Japan during the war. They told her that they knew they had to hang because of their crimes, but also knew that they were saved by the grace of God and would be going to be with the Lord. I read that in a book titled "Sensei" about that woman missionary in Japan before and during world war 2.

Well, it was great to hear that you have testimonies of domestic abusers who turned their lives around through our Savior. Very encouraging.

However, I never suggested that there should be no penalty for crimes. Here is something I have seen over and over though, that it seems the Father does not ALWAYS want people to go to jail for their crimes. I have heard so many testimonies (one of my favorite sources is the Precious Testimonies channel, which has real get down and get real and sometimes get "dirty" confessions and testimonies.)

I have heard testimonies from high level satanists who apparently were into human sacrifice, bikers who committed murder. and so on And over and over they talked of illegal drugs they used. Messiah turned their lives around and He didn't tell them, "Turn yourself in and go to prison." Honestly I think that if everyone went to jail who has broken the law, especially those who do drugs, that the streets would be kinda bare out there! Ditto many schools, hospitals, well you name it. There wouldn't be room for them all.

It's up to the Father who goes to jail and who does not. Many have turned their lives around and have served their Churches and other believers. What good would they be in jail? Again, I'm not saying no one should go there. If someone is violent or threatening then that person absolutely needs to be incarcerated. Not just them of course.

But think about it. Where in the Bible do we see a system of justice such as in this country has, and most countries have? What we see are people living in cages, so often just learning more crimes and making more bad contacts, even getting drugs in prison. inappropriate content flows like water. there, not to mention horrific sex crimes. How is that helping anyone? What is the rehabilitation rate there? Well, it ain't good!

The Bible says an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I'm sure many men and women in those cages would be happy to give up an eye or a tooth so that they could go home and be with their families and support them.

Again, if they are dangerous, great lock them up. Or if the Father wants them in jail for any reason, great, He's the Boss and it will happen. But I don't see that prison, generally, is the answer personally in all cases where the law has been broken. I see prisons as perpetuating more crime and more dysfunction.

 

[Endeavourer]

The smacked around comment sounds to me like it's taken out of context.

But @Redwingfan9, the transcript is there so you can see the context. You can also see the video if you choose.

He's telling her to go the church afterward, which I think is the key. He doesn't appear to be saying put up with it nightly before eventually heading to the church. He could have been more artful in his speech, I will grant that.

But wouldn't you agree that is very dangerous advice? Why should a woman suffering domestic violence not call the police immediately?

Per research done by Alanna Vagianos: The number of American troops killed in Afghanistan and Iraq between 2001 and 2012 was 6,488. The number of American women who were murdered by current or ex male partners during that time was 11,766.​

@topher694 as a pastor, what would your comment be to another pastor who told a woman who was "smacked" to get in touch with the church in the morning, and that the church is really the ultimate solution to her problem? (per Piper transcript in post #21), portion of Piper's comment cited below:

"If it’s not requiring her to sin but simply hurting her, then I think she endures verbal abuse for a season, and she endures perhaps being smacked one night, and then she seeks help from the church.

Every time I deal with somebody in this, I find the ultimate solution under God in the church...."

Edited to add: BTW, @topher694 has shown through his discourse that he understands this dynamic and would be one of those safe pastors.

 

[aiki]

There are some good pastors out there who understand the dynamics of abuse. I've found them to be few and far between. Several dynamics are at play:

a) protection of the ol' boys
b) twisting Scripture verses about wives submitting to husbands
c) the outsized influence in the churches of the popular book "Love and Respect", aka "The Husband's Calling to Abuse His Wife" that has made many recommended reading lists and widely adapted by conservative churches; however the book plays on Bible-y phrases and concepts that are unquestioned in the filters of many conservative believers to subtly twist and shift the enactment of submission beyond anything the Bible would recognize.

I have been within what some would call "conservative" Christianity all my life (fifty-plus years) and I have never heard of the book "Love and Respect." It certainly isn't on any reading list I've ever seen in any conservative church I've attended. Generally, there aren't any such lists (save the Bible and maybe Charles Spurgeon).

I've never encountered this "protection of the ol' boys" you mention, either. I'm an Elder in my church and would know if such a thing existed in it. I can tell you it doesn't.

I also haven't encountered this twisting of Scripture you say goes on, conservative though my church is.

Here is one story of an abused wife who sought help from the church. I'm so very sad to say this is result is more typical than not. So, so sad.

And how do you know this, exactly? How do you know this "result is more typical than not"? Have you done an in-depth investigation of this matter in all conservative churches in North America? Or even just in the States? In even one state? I very much doubt it. Certainly, one story - however tragic - or even a dozen does not prove a rule for the many thousands of churches in North America.

In any event, I don't agree that a woman in an abusive circumstance with her husband should not seek help from her church leadership. Obviously, if the abuse is physical, the place she should go first is to the police. Your advice, though, to people to forsake church leadership altogether in dealing with spousal abuse is throwing the baby out with the bathwater, it seems to me. In fact, the extremity of your point of view smacks rather of virtue signalling.