Why I’m Not a Christian Zionist, Academically Speaking”

[Carey]

Yes God loves Haggar and Ishmaels decendents. One has only to look at the massive wealth of many Arabs to see God has blessed Ishmaels decendents as promised.

The oil isn't a blessing to the arabs, and it's running dry.

The wealth and rulership is the blessing Ishmaels decendents have recieved.

What they do with it is up to them.

 

[Col3_11n12]

I still have to ask, where is ONE SHRED of evidence that modern-day Arabs are descendants of the Ishmael of the Bible? Come on, where is the family tree? Trying to use the Bible to claim that these Arabs are a certain people of the Bible is nothing more than pure circular logic.

 

[Micah68]

Well I’m a fundamentalist Christian, and I am not a Christian Zionist or dispensationalist. Those people on that video are tarring me with the same brush as those American ‘useful idiots’. Interesting video though. I only realised what dispensationalism is recently, and where it came from, and how it has influenced my thinking. I also recently left a church where this american doctrine was starting to get a hold.. and that was mainly because of an american family that had just joined the church.. saying we should pray for 'God's holy people'... the Jews in the state of Israel. And then you see all that on TV with God's holy people murdering everyone in Gaza.. disgraceful.

What holy people? What is your definition of fundamentalist? Yes, I to almost bought into the same baloney and since have learned to pick my churches carefully and to question all teachings by man. Christ gave us a wonderful criteria with which to apply all teachings.

The horrors suffer in Gaza will have life long affects, every one of the children there have been so traumatized and will need professional medical care for a long time to come.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

What holy people? What is your definition of fundamentalist? Yes, I to almost bought into the same baloney and since have learned to pick my churches carefully and to question all teachings by man. Christ gave us a wonderful criteria with which to apply all teachings.

The horrors suffer in Gaza will have life long affects, every one of the children there have been so traumatized and will need professional medical care for a long time to come.

Fundamentalist is someone like me.. who considers the bible to be the word of God.. without any error.. I have reached this conclusion, not because of any doctrinal thing, but because I have investigated the evidence, the anti-Christians who have attacked the bible, with heliocentrism, and evolution.. I have looked into this and found out that they were liars, and the bible was true after all. Eschatological interpretations are completely different from fundamentalism, that is how you see Revelation, and the rest of the bible, as symbolic/literal or both.. I interpret Revelation as mainly symbolic, and the books of Daniel and Ezekiel as historical. I have seen how the dispensationalists have spun out Daniel, inserted the 69 week gap theory, placed Ezekiel’s 38 war into the future (when it was probably historical) and distorted the new testament teachings to create the rapture and two returns of Christ.. that’s just unbiblical and wrong.

 

[Micah68]

I, Too, believe the Bible to be the word of God, I also believe Jesus the Christ to be God's living word. God is so much bigger than any book, this includes the Holy Bible.


There is nothing Biblical about modern day Israel. The coming of Christ, the Messiah, put us each on equal ground.

Israelis describe wanton killings of Gazans

by Jean-Luc Renaudie Jean-luc Renaudie 2 hrs 36 mins ago

JERUSALEM (AFP) – Israeli soldiers have described wanton killings of Palestinian civilians and destruction of property during the deadly 22-day Gaza war, according to a journal published on Thursday.
One soldier spoke of an Israeli sharpshooter killing a Palestinian mother and her two children who had left their home on a path the troops had declared off-limits, according to the journal of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military academy.
The publication, quoting graduates of the college, also cited the case of an elderly Palestinian woman killed as she was walking 100 metres (yards) from her home.
Soldiers also spoke of civilians being abused, acts of vandalism and destruction of homes.
"Those were very harsh testimonies about unjustified shooting of civilians and destruction of property that conveyed an atmosphere in which one feels entitled to use unrestricted force against Palestinians," academy director Dany Zamir told public radio.
He said military officers were surprised by the findings he relayed to them.
The army said the Military Advocate General has ordered the military police to investigate the claims.
Asked about the report, Defence Minister Ehud Barak told public radio: "The Israeli army is the most moral in the world, and I know what I'm talking about because I know what took place in the former Yugoslavia, in Iraq.
"Of course there may be exceptions which are being talked about, and everything that has been said must be looked into," he added.
Israel's Yesh Din human rights group called for an independent inquiry. (Continued)

 

[Carey]

Fundamentalist is someone like me.. who considers the bible to be the word of God.. without any error.. I have reached this conclusion, not because of any doctrinal thing, but because I have investigated the evidence, the anti-Christians who have attacked the bible, with heliocentrism, and evolution.. I have looked into this and found out that they were liars, and the bible was true after all. Eschatological interpretations are completely different from fundamentalism, that is how you see Revelation, and the rest of the bible, as symbolic/literal or both.. I interpret Revelation as mainly symbolic, and the books of Daniel and Ezekiel as historical. I have seen how the dispensationalists have spun out Daniel, inserted the 69 week gap theory, placed Ezekiel’s 38 war into the future (when it was probably historical) and distorted the new testament teachings to create the rapture and two returns of Christ.. that’s just unbiblical and wrong.

How did they accomplish flying home on planes before plains existed?/

The Bible predicted the Decendents of Isaac would be return in part by airplane also....Isaiah 60 : 8 "Who are these that fly along like clouds, like doves to their nests?

4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm. ( this does not say the sons and daughters are going to be good or Godly )5 Then you will look and be radiant,
your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

How did they accomplish flying home on planes before plains existed?/

The Bible predicted the Decendents of Isaac would be return in part by airplane also....Isaiah 60 : 8 "Who are these that fly along like clouds, like doves to their nests?

4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm. ( this does not say the sons and daughters are going to be good or Godly )5 Then you will look and be radiant,
your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come.

I dont know the context of that passage, but i dont see anything here about aircraft.. it's a sort of poetic language.. not even symbolic.

 

[Carey]

I dont know the context of that passage, but i dont see anything here about aircraft.. it's a sort of poetic language.. not even symbolic.

So why would one part of Isaiah 60 be poetic and another literal??

Do you think this is poetic too??

Isaiah 60 :


10 "Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you.
Though in anger I struck you,
in favor I will show you compassion.


4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm.
5 Then you will look and be radiant,
your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come.

12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined.

This is yet to be fulfilled but seems quite literakl would you not say??
14 The sons of your oppressors will come bowing before you;
all who despise you will bow down at your feet
and will call you the City of the LORD,
Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

So why would one part of Isaiah 60 be poetic and another literal??

Do you think this is poetic too??

Isaiah 60 :


10 "Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you.
Though in anger I struck you,
in favor I will show you compassion.


4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm.
5 Then you will look and be radiant,
your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come.

12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined.

This is yet to be fulfilled but seems quite literakl would you not say??
14 The sons of your oppressors will come bowing before you;
all who despise you will bow down at your feet
and will call you the City of the LORD,
Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

It dosn't have to be the state of Israel. That could be symbolic of the church age.. rebuilding walls could be symbolic of another type of restoration, as the modern state of Israel does not have walls around it, that is an ancient thing, to protect against the various enemies.
And when was that passage said? what is it predicting exactly, is it already over with, and a real historical event, some time after the prophet said it? I'd have to do the research and look at the history. There seems to be a literal, historical event to account for Ezekiel 38-39.

 

[Carey]

It dosn't have to be the state of Israel. That could be symbolic of the church age.. rebuilding walls could be symbolic of another type of restoration, as the modern state of Israel does not have walls around it, that is an ancient thing, to protect against the various enemies.
And when was that passage said? what is it predicting exactly, is it already over with, and a real historical event, some time after the prophet said it? I'd have to do the research and look at the history. There seems to be a literal, historical event to account for Ezekiel 38-39.

So....

Isaiah 60 :


10 "Foreigners will rebuild your walls,
and their kings will serve you. When in history prior to 1948 has rulers of Governments served Israel??
Though in anger I struck you, And they were bansihed form their land until 1948
in favor I will show you compassion.


4 "Lift up your eyes and look about you:
All assemble and come to you;
your sons come from afar,
and your daughters are carried on the arm. This is still happening today 2009

5 Then you will look and be radiant, your heart will throb and swell with joy;
the wealth on the seas will be brought to you,
to you the riches of the nations will come. The riches of the Natiosn are still poring into Israel

12 For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish;
it will be utterly ruined. ummm remeber Saddam regime and many others??

This is yet to be fulfilled but seems quite literal would you not say??
14 The sons of your oppressors will come bowing before you;
all who despise you will bow down at your feet
and will call you the City of the LORD,
Zion of the Holy One of Israel.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

It wasn't God that killed Saddam Hussain. It's only the riches of the USA that is pouring into Israel, and bankrupting them in the process.

 

[Carey]

It wasn't God that killed Saddam Hussain. It's only the riches of the USA that is pouring into Israel, and bankrupting them in the process.

It was not God who killed Pharoes son or Judas either Is suppose??

Commission of European communities. Provided mainly from Germany over 500 million after the 1st gulf war.

The EU is Israel's major trading partner. About 37% of Israeli imports come from the EU, and about 33% of Israeli exports
are directed to the EU. Trade between the EU and Israel has continued to grow. Israel's exports to the European Union in​

2006 amounted to €9.766 billion, thereby making Israel the 29th biggest exporter to the EU. Israel's imports from the​

EU in the same year amounted to €13.784 billion ranking it 21st in the list of importers from the EU.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

It was not God who killed Pharoes son or Judas either Is suppose??

Commission of European communities. Provided mainly from Germany over 500 million after the 1st gulf war.

The EU is Israel's major trading partner. About 37% of Israeli imports come from the EU, and about 33% of Israeli exports
are directed to the EU. Trade between the EU and Israel has continued to grow. Israel's exports to the European Union in
2006 amounted to €9.766 billion, thereby making Israel the 29th biggest exporter to the EU. Israel's imports from the​

EU in the same year amounted to €13.784 billion ranking it 21st in the list of importers from the EU.

Yeah that's trade.. not aid. 'Nothing wrong with people earning a buck.

 

[Carey]

Yeah that's trade.. not aid. 'Nothing wrong with people earning a buck.

Well we will see if we earned anything from our aid when Israel takes out our enemy Iran.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Well we will see if we earned anything from our aid when Israel takes out our enemy Iran.

That ludicrous fabricated nonsense again..

 

[Carey]

That ludicrous fabricated nonsense again..

You probably will like this.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...aga5SdCTJqmyqAOX1uXCAQ&q=obama+deception+full

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Carey Well we will see if we earned anything from our aid when Israel takes out our enemy Iran.

That ludicrous fabricated nonsense again..

 

[Carey]

You probably will like this.

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?do...aga5SdCTJqmyqAOX1uXCAQ&q=obama+deception+full

Now this is a long video.

And usually intelligent people have long attention spans.

Enjoy the facts. and possibly spin?? You decide

 

[Micah68]

Israel can't cover or hide this atrocity and they know it.


Israel troops admit Gaza abuses

An Israeli military college has printed damning soldiers' accounts of the killing of civilians and vandalism during recent operations in Gaza.
One account tells of a sniper killing a mother and children at close range whom troops had told to leave their home.

Another speaker at the seminar described what he saw as the "cold blooded murder" of a Palestinian woman.

The army has defended its conduct during the Gaza offensive but said it would investigate the testimonies.

The Israeli army has said it will investigate the soldiers' accounts.
The testimonies were published by the military academy at Oranim College. Graduates of the academy, who had served in Gaza, were speaking to new recruits at a seminar.


“ The climate in general [was that] lives of Palestinians are much, much less important than the lives of our soldiers ”
Soldier testimony


"[The testimonies] conveyed an atmosphere in which one feels entitled to use unrestricted force against Palestinians," academy director Dany Zamir told public radio.
Heavy civilian casualties during the three-week operation which ended in the blockaded coastal strip on 18 January provoked an international outcry.
Correspondents say the testimonies undermine Israel's claims that troops took care to protect non-combatants and accusations that Hamas militants were responsible for putting civilians into harm's way.
'Less important'
The Palestinian woman and two of her children were allegedly shot after they misunderstood instructions about which way to walk having been ordered out of their home by troops.
"The climate in general... I don't know how to describe it.... the lives of Palestinians, let's say, are much, much less important than the lives of our soldiers," an infantry squad leader is quoted saying.


In another cited case, a commander ordered troops to kill an elderly woman walking on a road, even though she was easily identifiable and clearly not a threat.
Testimonies, which were given by combat pilots and infantry soldiers, also included allegations of unnecessary destruction of Palestinian property.
"We would throw everything out of the windows to make room and order. Everything... Refrigerators, plates, furniture. The order was to throw all of the house's contents outside," a soldier said. One non-commissioned officer related at the seminar that an old woman crossing a main road was shot by soldiers. (continue)

 

[Micah68]

Soldier says rabbis pushed "religious war" in Gaza

Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:54am EDT
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Rabbis in the Israeli army told battlefield troops in January's Gaza offensive they were fighting a "religious war" against gentiles, according to one army commander's account published Friday.
"Their message was very clear: we are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle, God brought us back to this land and now we need to fight to expel the gentiles who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land," he said.
The account by Ram, a pseudonym to shield the soldier's identity, was published by the left-leaning Haaretz newspaper in the second day of revelations that have rocked the Israeli military. (www.haaretz.com "Shooting and Crying, 2009").
They were leaked from a Feb 13 meeting of armed forces members to share their Gaza experiences.
Some veterans, alumni of an Israel Defense Force (IDF) military academy, told of the killing of civilians and their impression that deep contempt for Palestinians pervaded the ranks of the Israeli forces.
Haaretz and the daily Maariv, which also published the accounts, quoted over half a dozen soldiers and airmen. The institution's director, Danny Zamir, confirmed that Thursday's published accounts were authentic.
In longer excerpts in its Friday "Week's End" edition, the daily quoted 'Ram' as saying his impression of the 22-day operation was "the feeling of an almost religious mission."
There was a "huge gap between what the Education Corps sent out and what the IDF rabbinate sent out," he said. The corps's pamphlets told the history of Israel's fighting in Gaza from 1948 to the present, but the rabbinate's message imparted the sense that "this operation was a religious war."
The rabbinate of the IDF provides religious services, including overseeing preparation of kosher food, providing prayerbooks and prayer sessions and religious counseling to any soldier wants to participate. Involvement is not obligatory. (continue)