Why hijab in Islam?

amorly

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peace be upon you

The imposition of the veil to the rule of God and the secrets of great, and commendable virtues, and the goals and the interests of large, including:

First: Remember Width: Veil guard to save the legitimacy of the symptoms, and the payment of the reasons for suspicion and strife and corruption.

Second: purity of heart: a farewell to the purity of the veil hearts of the believers, men and women, and architecture piety, and to maximize privacy. And sincerity of God - the Almighty - {that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts}.

Third, good manners: the veil is to provide an advocate morals of chastity and modesty and shyness, jealousy, and the blocking of of pollution and depravity

Fourth, a sign of the chaste: the veil on the sign of the legitimacy of Silks chaste in their chastity and honor, and the distance from the impurity of suspicion and doubt: { (59) O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful }, and the apparent evidence of Salah Salah al-Batin,


Fifth: cutting ambitions and Discussion diabolical: the veil and prevention of social harm, diseases of the hearts of men and women, cut off further ambitions promiscuous, and keeps eyes treacherous, and pay the harm a man in his presentation, and harm women in the view, and male relative, and prevention of throwing chaste , and desecrated the suspicion and doubt, and other passing thoughts diabolical.

Sixth: Remember modesty: it is taken from life, there is no life without him, which create deposited God in the soul that he wanted - Almighty - honored, also cause the virtues, and pay in the faces of vices, one of the human characteristics, and qualities of instinct, and the creation of Islam, and modesty is a branch of people of faith, one of the qualities of Mahmoud endorsed by the Arabs and Islam and called for by the veil only effective way to save the modesty, and take off take off the veil of modesty.

Seventh: The veil prevents the wanton display and unveiling the influence of mixing and communities to the people of Islam.

Eighth: the veil immunity against adultery, inappropriate contentography, so that the women of each vessel and clear.

IX: Women roughness, and the veil cover her, and that of piety, God said: (26) O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best. That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember. . Al-Araf (The Heights) } (custom / 26).

Ten: Remember jealousy
 

christianmomof3

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peace be upon you

The imposition of the veil to the rule of God and the secrets(what secrets and why are there secrets and if they are secret, why mention them?) of great, and commendable virtues(what virtues? whose virtues? how about making telling the truth a virtue?), and the goals and the interests of large, (what is goals and interests of "large"?)including:

First: Remember Width::confused:(what? how wide the veil should be?) Veil guard to save the legitimacy of the symptoms, and the payment of the reasons for suspicion and strife and corruption.(this makes no sense - grammatically or otherwise - what on earth is it talking about?)

Second: purity of heart: a farewell to the purity of the veil hearts of the believers, men and women, and architecture piety(what is architecture piety? holy buildings?), and to maximize privacy. And sincerity of God - the Almighty - {that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts}.

Third, good manners: the veil is to provide an advocate morals of chastity and modesty and shyness, jealousy, and the blocking of of pollution and depravity
(female bodies are not polluted and depraved, if men's minds are polluted and depraved, that is their own fault, not the fault of women. Perhaps men should wear veils and blinders like they used to put on horses)
The whole thing is nonsensical and either is a bad translation or just has bad grammar and the concept itself is degrading to women.
 
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Booko

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I recall some years ago a discussion about the notion of modesty as it applies to women in Islam. It got quite technical and involved Arabic (obviously) which put it far beyond my reach of proper evaluation, but overall I found the argument put out that certain verses referred to "bosom" and how that should be covered to be more likely to be a good understanding of the issue.

Also, overall I find it interesting that in discussions of religion and modesty, whether the religion is Judaism, Christianity or Islam, it never seems worth discussing men and what modest dress and behaviour means for them.

Things that make you go hm.
 
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Booko

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Booko,
I could discuss some of those things that exist for Orthodox men. They aren't supposed to hear women sing for example. It just isn't as exciting as discussing women matters.

Actually, LoAmmi, since you mention it, the one time I did see something about men and modesty was a conversation between two Orthodox Jews on a bbs many years ago.

The funny thing is there are many issues of modesty that apply to men and women both equally. But for whatever reason there seems to be a double standard and it's the women who get lectured to, as if the men don't need to hear the instruction.

A fun thread I saw years ago elsewhere asked the question "What would you do if you switched genders for a day?"

The Muslim lady replied simply, "Run naked through the mosque so we can discuss men's modesty for a change."
 
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Booko

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I think Hijaab if insulting (which I don't agree it is) would be more insulting to men. The reason why is because it's saying they will disrespect women for her body, saying they will not control their desires, etc...

In a way it can be insulting to both men and women.

It's insulting to men to suggest they are such uncontrollable animals the sight of an ear or a chin would make them unable to think clearly.

It's insulting to women because it blames her for this alleged reaction in men and makes her bear all the burden of fixing the man's problem.

It seems to be a mess all around.

Now, in the past it was common in many cultures to wear various sorts of headgear, and there were many purposes for that, from identifying someone's place and work in society at a glance to *ahem* limiting the spread of vermin to yes, keeping your head warm and/or protected from the sun. In some cultures headgear still functions in some of these ways.

That's fine, but I have a hard time seeing now a one-size-fits-all directive about headgear and modesty could apply on a global scale.
 
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Supreme

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The thing I don't understand is, fair enough, Muslims don't want women to show their private bits (not many people do), but then these 'private bits' include the hair, the arms, the legs, and in some extreme cases, the face. These aren't private parts by any stretch of the imagination.
 
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Booko

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The thing I don't understand is, fair enough, Muslims don't want women to show their private bits (not many people do), but then these 'private bits' include the hair, the arms, the legs, and in some extreme cases, the face. These aren't private parts by any stretch of the imagination.

And it depends on which Muslims you ask. Bosnian Muslims and Saudi Muslims have really different views on what constitutes "private" parts.

There are some general ideas of what private bits are that seem to work across the globe, climates and cultures though.

Although funny story, I was growing up in a Calvinist Church when the miniskirt went big in the 60s. We were told we could not wear pants because they were not "modest" for women, but uh...miniskirts? Seriously? Even a modest skirt was above the knee and that's what all the ladies were wearing. It was sort of funny because if a woman wore pants to church it was treated like it was some sort of sin.

My mom, hardly a feminist, was the first woman to wear a pantsuit to church. A couple of the men tried to remark on it, but you know, the logic about it being far more modest than common skirts, plus it was a near blizzard outside in a Michigan winter, shut down the few complaints there were. Next week there were several other women wearing pantsuits on Sunday.

Anyway, I'm not sure there will ever be an end to the debate about "what is modesty" because it seems more likely that people will push from either extreme to try to move things.
 
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fschmidt

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peace be upon you

The imposition of the veil to the rule of God and the secrets of great, and commendable virtues, and the goals and the interests of large, including:

First: Remember Width: Veil guard to save the legitimacy of the symptoms, and the payment of the reasons for suspicion and strife and corruption.

Second: purity of heart: a farewell to the purity of the veil hearts of the believers, men and women, and architecture piety, and to maximize privacy. And sincerity of God - the Almighty - {that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts}.

Third, good manners: the veil is to provide an advocate morals of chastity and modesty and shyness, jealousy, and the blocking of of pollution and depravity

Fourth, a sign of the chaste: the veil on the sign of the legitimacy of Silks chaste in their chastity and honor, and the distance from the impurity of suspicion and doubt: { (59) O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful }, and the apparent evidence of Salah Salah al-Batin,


Fifth: cutting ambitions and Discussion diabolical: the veil and prevention of social harm, diseases of the hearts of men and women, cut off further ambitions promiscuous, and keeps eyes treacherous, and pay the harm a man in his presentation, and harm women in the view, and male relative, and prevention of throwing chaste , and desecrated the suspicion and doubt, and other passing thoughts diabolical.

Sixth: Remember modesty: it is taken from life, there is no life without him, which create deposited God in the soul that he wanted - Almighty - honored, also cause the virtues, and pay in the faces of vices, one of the human characteristics, and qualities of instinct, and the creation of Islam, and modesty is a branch of people of faith, one of the qualities of Mahmoud endorsed by the Arabs and Islam and called for by the veil only effective way to save the modesty, and take off take off the veil of modesty.

Seventh: The veil prevents the wanton display and unveiling the influence of mixing and communities to the people of Islam.

Eighth: the veil immunity against adultery, inappropriate contentography, so that the women of each vessel and clear.

IX: Women roughness, and the veil cover her, and that of piety, God said: (26) O children of Adam, We have bestowed upon you clothing to conceal your private parts and as adornment. But the clothing of righteousness - that is best. That is from the signs of Allah that perhaps they will remember. . Al-Araf (The Heights) } (custom / 26).

Ten: Remember jealousy

I basically agree with everything here but I think the hijab goes a little further than necessary. But certainly I am much closer to the Islamic view than to the modern liberal view. Orthodox Judaism and the few uncorrupted Christian sects like some Anabaptists also share this view. The modern liberal view ignores biology and ignores the idea that people should be considerate for one another. Liberalism is pure evil, nothing else.

For those Christians here who have forgotten their own history, I suggest reading about rather recent traditional Catholic virtues.
 
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rturner76

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I see a Hijab woman and I just love it! I'm sure in a Islamic country itt wouldn't mean as much because they all dress like that. When I see one in my city in the midwest, I think "there is a woman devoted to God, she only shares herself with her husband and her God" She is modest and lives by her moral code that many people do not understand but she lives for it every day in the way she dresses and her actions tell you who she in and what she believes right when you look at her. There is no mistake, that is a muslim woman. She probably doesn't drink or smoke or run the streets. SOme do live double live I've found out though but the thing still gets me . I just love it. They dress like a nun, like a woman of God.
 
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Booko

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How do you judge the limit on how much body can be shown?

Me personally? Whatever covers the torso, abdomen, groin and a bit lower seems to generally work. As far as street garb goes.

But those are my limits. What society thinks is appropriate is something that needs to be negotiated and there will always be disagreements along the margins.

If I lived in the Amazon perhaps less clothing would be appropriate just because of the climate.
 
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Booko

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For those Christians here who have forgotten their own history, I suggest reading about rather recent traditional Catholic virtues.

*sigh* Someone who knows something about the history of clothing needs to educate Cardinal Siri on the history of trousers. There is nothing inherently "male" about them, sorry Cardinal. It became that tradition in Europe for some centuries, but Christ is big enough to cover the world and not just Europe.

I could understand Cardinal Siri having something negative to say about women wearing trousers too tight -- but then men do that to and that should be just as much a problem of modesty.

Anyway, looks like Pope Nicholas I already said it was ok for women to wear trousers back in 866A.D., so I'll just go with that.

Women wearing pants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Doesn't a Pope outrank a Cardinal?

What is Cardinal Siri a Vicar of? I misremember...
 
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Booko

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I see a Hijab woman and I just love it!

I think hijab are very tidy and neat and can look very good.

However, I live in Georgia in the S.E. U.S. and would not like to be forced to wear one during our damp hot summers. Aside from being way uncomfortable, it would make me more likely to overheat and I'd sweat and stink like mad.
 
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fschmidt

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I could understand Cardinal Siri having something negative to say about women wearing trousers too tight -- but then men do that to and that should be just as much a problem of modesty.

You know I have never noticed men wearing tight pants or miniskirts in church. I wonder why. Could it be because the sexes are different?

The issue of this thread is modesty, not pants, and for whatever reason, it seems to be a much bigger problem with women than with men.
 
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Rationalt

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The point repeatedly made by muslims that Allah wanteed so and so and hence we must follow ; sounds like a bad joke for somebody who knows islam.

Muhammad's situational requiremnts make him go in to a fit and deliver what is convenient to him.

In the case of Hijab it was the desire of one of his companions(Umar) which made Allah reveal (Lol) the Hijab verse.

I made a post about an year back. .


Hadith Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 4,number 148

Narrated 'Aisha:
The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at 'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes)


There are other hadiths regarding Umar pestering Muhammad to reveal Hijab verse.
Btw, some arabic tribes were using hijab before muhammad.
 
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