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Why has Jesus not returned yet?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by HammerRock, Jan 11, 2014.

  1. HammerRock

    HammerRock Junior Member

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    The gospel has been preached to all nations, Israel is back in their promised land....

    Why has Jesus not yet returned?
     
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  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Because all of the end times prophecies have not been fulfilled. I guess what you may be getting at is that Jerusalem is yet to have said "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" having embraced that Jesus is her Lord, Savior, King.
     
  3. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
     
  4. supersoldier71

    supersoldier71 Sinner, saved by Grace

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    We're on His timetable, not the other way 'round for one thing.

    Another: have you ever prayed for something? Prayed diligently, all the time, and then you didn't get it? Or it looked different from what you were praying for? Or the timing was "off" from what you'd ask? But when the prayer was answered, it was perfect. I know I have.

    We wait, patiently, for the Lord's perfect timing.
     
  5. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    hi hammerrock,

    Well, I'm waiting for the sign that Paul told us to be waiting for. The rise of the lawless one.

    God bless you.
    In Christ, Ted
     
  6. B1inHim

    B1inHim LOVE one another

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    :amen:
     
  7. Kings servant

    Kings servant GOD'S WARRIOR.

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    Do you ask because you can't wait for Him to return? If so then great, I want to go home as well!
    Or do you ask because you look around and see that things seem pretty bad now?
    Just curious.
     
  8. Rudolph Hucker

    Rudolph Hucker Senior Member

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    Maybe he has.

    Maybe it was in Alabama in the 30's.

    Maybe he was not believed.

    Maybe he was lynched.
     
  9. InSpiritInTruth

    InSpiritInTruth Well-Known Member

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    2 Peter 3:3-12

    King James Version (KJV)

    3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
    4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
    5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
    6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
    7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
    8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
    10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
    11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
    12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat.
     
  10. HammerRock

    HammerRock Junior Member

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    True we are still waiting for the salvation of the Jews.
     
  11. HammerRock

    HammerRock Junior Member

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    Gods patience is not in question. I suppose this verse means that God has planned Christs return to maximise the numbers of those who repent and are saved and that his timing will be perfect. Though clearly some will not be saved.
     
  12. HammerRock

    HammerRock Junior Member

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    Yes exactly
     
  13. HammerRock

    HammerRock Junior Member

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    It disturbs me that things may well indeed have to get worse before Christ returns but that is how I read scripture also.
     
  14. HammerRock

    HammerRock Junior Member

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    Both really and also because many of the prophecies that concern his return are being fulfilled.
     
  15. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    Jesus has not returned yet because he cannot return until "immediately after" the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). That's why the marriage of the church doesn't happen until Revelation 19:7, in connection with Jesus' 2nd coming and the bodily resurrection of the church at that time (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). Matthew 24:30-31 refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and gathering together (rapture) of the church as 2 Thessalonians 2:1, which refers to the same 2nd coming of Jesus and catching up together (rapture) of the church as 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17.

    Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there is a falling away (an apostasy) in the church, and the Antichrist sits in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2, Revelation 13:4-8), and the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of the 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15-31, Daniel 11:31). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the future, literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-31).

    At Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:30), the church will be resurrected and caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31), not to remove the church from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20), but to take the church only as high as the clouds of the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

    At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and all the armies of the world (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

    Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

    This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

    Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) "immediately after" the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

    --

    The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.
     
  16. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

    None of this makes any sense in light of how Jesus used "this gen" over and over. Lk 23 being the most poignant. The Ps 90 ref is meaningless, so is the Gen 6. People live longer than a generation! But the ceremonial or sacred or symbolic meaning of the generation is that 40 years between existing adults and the next batch. That is precisely why the generation between Jesus death and the total mess of the revolt is so auspicious and fortuitous in the overall meaning of the NT.
     
  17. InSpiritInTruth

    InSpiritInTruth Well-Known Member

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    Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

    Jesus was talking about a wicked and adulterous generation (seed of evil doers) children of their father the devil etc. (which are still present today)

    But there is also Christs seed aka. generation. (regeneration)

    Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

    Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    There are only 2 seeds and 2 generations (serpents seed vs woman's seed)
     
  18. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

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    InSpirit,
    the regeneration of Titus 3 doesnt' have to do with that of Mt 19. Mt 19 was about the day of his enthronement (Acts 2--made Lord and Christ). So that "Israel" is the new one.

    Everything he said would happen to the generation of Lk 23 did. The children currently nursing were the adults of the DofJ. "If men mob and crucify someone like Jesus now, think what they will do in a generation?" The answer: they would self-destruct in some of the ugliest and most needless turmoil recorded (by Josephus; see the summary here called 'Holford summarizes Josephus on the DofJ').
     
  19. InSpiritInTruth

    InSpiritInTruth Well-Known Member

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    Those who are born again of Gods Spirit are of Christs generation (seed of promise).

    2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

    And who was talking about Luke 23? If you meant all things would happen to that literal flesh and blood generation Jesus was referring to in Luke 21:32, then you would be wrong.
     
  20. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    Just as some camps of partial preterism admit that Jesus skips thousands of years in Matthew 24:30, so such camps should be able to admit that Matthew 24:34 refers to the fulfillment of "all these things", all the events of the tribulation and Jesus' 2nd coming and the gathering together (rapture) of the church "immediately after" the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6), which events Jesus had just finished describing in Matthew 24:2-31, and which he would later show in great detail in Revelation chapters 6 to 19. Matthew 24:34 didn't mean that the tribulation, 2nd coming, and rapture would be fulfilled during the temporal generation alive at the time of Jesus' first coming, for none of those things was fulfilled during that temporal generation.

    That is, just as the highly detailed tribulation events of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 find no historical fulfillment, so the tribulation events of Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 find no historical fulfillment. For example, Luke 21:24 refers to the same future treading down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles as Revelation 11:2b, during the Antichrist's future, literal 42-month worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), the details of which time period are shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13). The myriad details of these chapters have never been fulfilled. Similarly, Jesus' 2nd coming and the church's gathering together (rapture) in Matthew 24:30-31 (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) have never been fulfilled, but (again) must occur "immediately after" the future tribulation of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6).

    Also, the end of Herod's temple building (also called the 2nd temple building) in 70 AD didn't fulfill Matthew 24:2. For the stones of the 2nd temple's Western Wall (also called the Wailing Wall) still stand today one on top of the other, just as they did when Jesus spoke that prophecy. Matthew 24:2 included the Wailing Wall, for Matthew 24:2 wasn't referring to only the single 2nd temple building in the center of the Temple Mount (the building that contained the holy place and the most holy place), but was referring to "all these things", all the plural "buildings"/structures/oikodome (G3619) of the entire 2nd temple complex (Matthew 24:1). Indeed, Matthew 24:2 could even have been spoken just to the north and west of the Wailing Wall. For it was spoken just after Jesus had departed from the temple complex (Matthew 24:1), and one of the main temple complex exits (called Wilson's Arch and bridge by archaeologists) was just to the north of the Wailing Wall and at the same level as the top of the Temple Mount (see the temple complex map insert in the December 2008 issue of National Geographic magazine).

    Also, in Matthew 24:2, the "here" can include not just the entire 2nd temple complex, but every structure throughout Jerusalem. For the similar statement in Luke 19:44 applied to the whole city (Luke 19:41-44). Matthew 24:2 and Luke 19:44 could be fulfilled at the very end of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, right before and at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
     
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