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Why has Canada done better than the U.S. in the pandemic? Apparently by listening to the scientists.

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by pitabread, Jul 11, 2020.

  1. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

    +10,248
    Canada
    Agnostic
    Private
    COMMENTARY: Canada and the U.S. are neighbours but miles apart when it comes to COVID-19

    There seem to be many reasons for the stark differences between the two countries’ experience in fighting off the virus.

    Perhaps the most important difference is that Canada’s response to COVID-19 is being driven and determined by public health officials, and not by politicians.

    People like B.C. Provincial Health Officer Dr. Bonnie Henry and federal Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam have been in charge for the most part and they are being guided by science rather than politics.

    Canadian political leaders, meanwhile, have primarily been responsible for devising financial aid packages for the millions of people hit hardest by the virus and have stayed out of the health side of the response.

    Contrast that to the United States where, in some cases, elected officials (notably President Donald Trump) publicly clash with public health experts and ignore or override their advice.

    Dr. Anthony Fauci, the respected U.S. infectious disease expert, has almost disappeared from public view. Evidently, that is because the Trump administration does not want him offering the country expert advice.
     
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  2. Aryeh Jay

    Aryeh Jay Veteran Supporter

    +10,399
    United States
    Married
    Or, it is proof that Canada made a deal with Satan to make Trump look bad.
     
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  3. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,185
    Christian
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    US-Green
    "O Canada"...... It looks like we in the U.S. could learn something from our neighbor to the North!
     
  4. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

    +10,248
    Canada
    Agnostic
    Private
    Shhhhhhhhh!
     
  5. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

    +15,097
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    There is something in the national psyche of Canadians that avoids the rather selfish attitude of many Americans that "I won't follow any order that infringes on MY rights and MY freedoms no matter what the reason." That, and the fact that Canada has found strong well informed leadership under Justin Trudeau.
     
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  6. Goonie

    Goonie Not so Mystic Mog. Supporter

    +7,060
    United Kingdom
    Atheist
    Single
    at least on this issue.
     
  7. JackRT

    JackRT Well-Known Member Supporter

    +15,097
    Canada
    Christian
    Married
    No matter what else you might think or say about Justin. this has been his finest hour.

    So far.
     
  8. Mantishand

    Mantishand Active Member

    326
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    Canada has about 37 million people and America has 328 million. That may have something to do with it.
     
  9. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +6,629
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    Australia was a coronavirus success story. Now, an outbreak is prompting new lockdowns.

    The reality is that no matter how successful a nation is at first, they have to reopen their economies eventually....then the cases and deaths will increase.
     
  10. jgarden

    jgarden Senior Veteran

    +2,689
    Methodist
    July 10th, 2020 - Canada recorded 321 new cases and 10 new deaths attributed to COVID-19

    July 10th, 2020 - USA recorded 71,787 new cases and 849 new deaths attributed to COVID-19

    Canada Coronavirus: 107,346 Cases and 8,773 Deaths - Worldometer
    **************************************************************************************************************
    Even if one were to error on the side of the USA by multiplying by a factor of 10X, the answer is still painfully obvious as to why the European Union allows incoming international flights of Canadians, but not Americans!

    So much for the arguments invented by this President and his supporters that Americans should accept these statistics as the new normal and that governments are powerless to reduce the impact of the pandemic!

    Canada shares 5250 miles of border with the USA so it isn't as if it was some remote nation located on the other side of the world!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2020
  11. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

    +10,248
    Canada
    Agnostic
    Private
    Even if you adjust for population size, Canada has still fared far better than the U.S.
     
  12. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +6,629
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5570905

    "Until we get the vaccine, I don't think we can really avoid the second wave," said Rama Nair, an expert in epidemiology with 40 years' experience as a teacher and researcher at the University of Ottawa."

    Not the new normal, eh?

    Thanks, but I'll listen to the experts.
     
  13. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

    +9,840
    Romania
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    You appear to be implying that president Trump's notions about the world are random and unreliable. How can this be true? He says things, surely that is proof enough.
     
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  14. Tom 1

    Tom 1 Optimistic sceptic Supporter

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    There's a lot more variation than that, Germany for example took an eminently direct and pragmatic approach, kept their hospitals from being overwhelmed and have had a very low death rate throughout. Vietnam, Mongolia, Taiwan and some other countries managed to keep cases to a minimum and have managed to maintain that while still maintaining a reduced but functioning economy. There are other examples of relative success, Greece, Iceland etc.
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Regular Member

    +8,282
    Atheist
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    It is such a pity. Trump was given an opportunity to shine, but he squandered it by concentrating on what was best for him.
     
  16. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +6,629
    United States
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    Relative success....sure.

    I think the problem with public perception on the virus is that there's basically 3 different types of sources people are getting info from...

    1. Health experts. Probably the most confusing because they're scientists and doctors...but they have an agenda as well. That agenda is to present the information about the virus in a way that's helpful. This can lead to a false optimism because they have an incentive for downplaying how bad it really is.

    2. Politicians. They obviously have an agenda, especially given that this is an election year.

    3. The media in general...more motivated by telling people whatever will grab the biggest audience than anything.

    To me, it's clear that the big picture is worse than anyone wants to admit....because there's no upside to admitting it. If you look at the statements of scientists and experts who aren't a part of some national or international health organization like the CDC or WHO...you can sort of piece together the extent of this....

    Some things I think are probably facts at this point....

    1. A vaccine isn't likely anytime really soon. The really optimistic voices say 1-2 years....the least optimistic say possibly never. I'd have to guess that if a vaccine is coming....that's probably 3+ years away.

    2. This is highly contagious and difficult to predict. Some people spread it a lot....others hardly at all. Masks, regular washing, social distancing work to reduce transmission....but they have to be used together and they aren't 100% effective. It's still going to infect people regardless.

    3. There's a realistic point where damage to the economy becomes severe enough to increase transmission. People losing their homes and jobs will create more carriers and less ability to prevent transmission. Prolonged stress on any nation's healthcare system will likewise create transmission problems. Protective gear will run out, nurses and emts will get burned out, and patients will be left exposed.

    4. Long term damage from the virus will potentially leave a significant number of people vulnerable to other infections....increasing the strain on healthcare and the economy.

    5. Near total control of who is able to enter a nation is a huge factor in controlling the virus' impact.

    6. When you add all these things up....I think the unfortunately reality is that millions of people will die worldwide and that's probably unavoidable.

    7. Judging success at this point is a waste of time. This is a marathon...not a sprint. We're barely through the second mile and people are second guessing every decision everyone makes. In South Korea...healthcare workers are still strained and working around the clock to contain this. Australia sees outbreaks as soon as they reopen businesses. No economy can shut down forever and no government can indefinitely hand out money to citizens to keep them home. Businesses and public services like schools will have to reopen...and when they do both the number of cases and death tolls will climb and there's ultimately no perfect way to prevent it.

    We're going to need to be several years past the end of this thing before we can judge who dealt with it the best. A nation may have the lowest virus death toll....but if the damage to their economy leaves millions in poverty, the death toll from that may offset the losses from the virus. It's too hard to judge honestly at this point...and anyone saying they can, or they have all the right answers, probably has an agenda to push.
     
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  17. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +6,629
    United States
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    Probably the most telling evidence that this is a really bad problem is that the left, in the US at least, isn't really offering any plan for dealing with it....they're just criticizing Trump.

    What is Biden going to do? Enforce nationwide mask and social distancing policies or laws? Not without police and frankly, I don't see any support for police from the left. Are they going to ban mass gatherings? Nope....that would require telling the "protesters" they have to stop protesting and again....that requires the full support of the police they're scapegoating across the country...

    How about controlling travel to and from the nation? Not without expanding and increasing control of the southern border....and guess what that means? Turning away asylum seekers and throwing families, children included, into detention centers. They can't support that without blatantly becoming hypocrites about everything they've complained about for the past 4 years.

    If people really want to control this....they're going to need to support the police, fund them, increase border security, and oppose any sort of large gatherings including protests.
     
  18. pitabread

    pitabread Well-Known Member

    +10,248
    Canada
    Agnostic
    Private
    Huh? How do you figure?
     
  19. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

    +6,629
    United States
    Atheist
    Married
    If they put out hard statistical data that said (for example) masks only reduce the possibility of infection or transmission by 50% by themselves (again, this is hypothetical) you'd probably have a larger portion of the population that simply decides that masks aren't worth the trouble....

    That would cause more harm.

    I'm not trying to imply they're lying....I don't think they are. I don't think they're necessarily going to give the public the whole truth though....and in many cases they can have an incentive to exaggerate information.

    Does that make sense?
     
  20. Richard T

    Richard T Well-Known Member

    +633
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Single
    I think that geography and weather are in Canada's favor. For instance, Canada's urban areas are limited. In the U.S. Alaska, Wyoming and Montana all have lower per capita infections than Canada. The best though is Hawaii. Only 74 cases per 100k, Canada's is 282 per 100k of people.
     
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