God knows. Also, it is clear in the Bible that the Creator is in management of any and all things. And we can be personally ruled by Him in His own peace >
Well, how much do they talk about how God is giving them peace in all-loving love?
Well, it depends on what the religion is.
Now, by the way, Temirlan > do you believe we humans are all physical only - - that we have evolved from an "ameba"?? If all beings of nature started from that ameba, don't you find it interesting how DNA could bring us to have the ability to experience God and to produce all the different religions? I mean, this would be what atoms and molecules have done by interaction according to predictable scientific principles of how matter and energy work. Right? Or not??
And according to evolution, I understand, the behavior of feeling God and/or inventing various religious groups would all have been selected!! And consciousness got in, somewhere, versus how it seems a rock does not have feelings. How do atoms and molecules produce consciousness and not conscious???? I would > God is alive and conscious. His light effects us to be conscious. But how our own nature is will have so much with how we become conscious. It is like how night UV light will effect different things to look different, because of the nature of what the UV light hits. Or, we could say how fire can produce a different effect on things, depending on the nature of the thing in the fire. God's light of love does come to all, but our selfish nature has us in frustration, bitterness, arguing, complaining, though we are somehow conscious. But because of our own nature in a selfish spirit, we are love-dead. Therefore, we so need how God changes our character when we trust in Jesus and become new creations, of love. Now, I would say faith has sensory capability, included. You need ability to sense God, in order to know there is God. This is not a say-so, logical thing. Because we humans do not have the senses we need, unless God first changes us spiritually.
So, you are saying Muslims and Christians are both the same, talking about what God is doing for them, and you see their lives changing for the better. So, you say both are the same > and self-produced.
By the way, Temirlan > you say we all can do things ourselves, then say God has done us good, if I understand you correctly. What can be happening indeed is how religious people are mainly interested in what they themselves get from God, and they do things in order to get brownie points to get them to heaven. They are not really caring about any and all others as themselves.
An example is stoning a person for adultery. This is in both the Qur'an and the Christian Scriptures, right?
> instead of just killing a wrong person, change the person into a caring person so evil can't use that person any more. This is the best revenge - - against evil!
God knows. Also, it is clear in the Bible that the Creator is in management of any and all things. And we can be personally ruled by Him in His own peace >
"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)
He is the One who created all things, and maintains their existence, plus He is almighty for dealing with "the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience." (in Ephesians 2:2) And He is able to personally communicate to have us know what He pleases for us to know.
And Jesus His Son came to this earth and suffered and died for us. I do not know of any other who is able in me to personally and more and more constantly rule me in His own peace which shares with us His own almighty immunity against wrong drives and unforgiveness and ongoing emotional suffering and anger and arguing and complaining and other dominating and cruel things.
Jesus guarantees us that if we learn to obey Him and love the way He wants, "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)
And, of course, Jesus rose from the dead on the third day and now is Lord of all. Jesus Christ is the way and the truth and the life > John 14:6 > and He says, "No one comes to the Father except through Me." And no other has done these things for me, that the Bible says God does. He has not communicated to have me know of any other, while personally guiding me in His own peace.
And it looks like you are admitting how you don't know this. Only God can prove Himself to you.
It is like how I could tell you all about elephants, and all you have ever seen is a walrus. I can say an elephant has tusks, and is very large with wrinkly skin. And all you can get is I must be talking about a walrus.
Or, you can spend all day saying, how do I know I have experienced an elephant? And why hasn't an elephant come to my igloo and introduced itself to me? You can second-guess, I see, anything I offer. But this does not change if there is really an elephant or not.
If you have not experienced God, it is because what we do does not work. We need how God has us come to know and share with Him. But in pride we have the personal communication of God's resistance >
"God resists the proud" > in James 4:6 and also in 1 Peter 5:5. Every one of us has done foolishly in pride; so every one of us has experienced God personally communicating with us by means of His resistance, whether we know this or admit this or not.
My opinion is you can not present a quote of any other being who claims to personally and constantly, more and more, guide that one's own children in perfect peace, nor can you quote any other who claims to personally resist any and all wrong humans in their pride.
Only God through Jesus makes this claim, as far as I know. And I mean in writing, clearly recorded and known around the world. And He has provided His own Son to suffer and die for us, so we may be reconciled with Him, after we have lived so awfully and selfishly against Him; and now He is deeply correcting our character so we become natural in loving any and all people > Hebrews 12:4-14.
Because He is in control of all, He can use even hypocrites to print His word and spread this message around the world. He is not in some hidden sneaky who-knows-where and not heard of wherever, like it seems is the case of certain ones you have listed that I have never heard about, at all . . . if even any real number of humans beside you have ever heard of them.
Jesus is so credible, that many people are trying to counterfeit Him so they can deceive people. You can't use people very well, by using what is not a counterfeit of real money!
The truth is, for me, I am not God; so how can I know whatever, unless He has me know? He is so more and better than we are. An ant in the bottom of an ant hill can not know if I exist. But I can dig up the ant and then it has proof. But, even then, the ant is not me; what really can the ant know if only it is in my hand??
But God's word says that in Jesus we are "joined to Him" so we are "one spirit with Him" > in 1 Corinthians 6:17. And since we do have our spiritual level or sort of existence, we can connect with God who is spiritual in being, and even be changed by Him in our character so we become able to share with Him, even feel what He is feeling.
And God's word says to have "the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (in 1 Peter 3:4) So, from this I see how God's love is gentle and quiet. So, in His gentleness and humility, of Jesus, I can share deeper than words with God Himself in me.
But this comes with getting rid of my noisy anti-love stuff >
"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)
God's grace changes us to succeed in getting rid of noisy stuff of unforgiveness and dominating drives for pleasures and excitement which only waste us and our time away from finding out how to love. There are many anti-love things which so keep us from enjoying God and loving any and all people. But Jesus died for us, in order to get us started in discovering how to share with God and learn how to love any and all people.
But people stay in their dominating and dictatorial stuff which keeps any of us from sharing with God. Only Jesus can save us and correct us from and cure us of this. I know of no other who does this and has guaranteed this in writing which has been spread and studied around the world, in various cultures.
All others that I have heard of are distant, and/or expect humans to take care of things, themselves, in self help efforts.
Only God through Jesus is recorded to claim He personally cares for His children, while we live in submission to how He rules us in His own peace which is almighty against fear and fighting and arguing and unforgiveness and dominating and dictatorial drives for pleasure. And, instead, Jesus gives us "rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) while we do what He has us doing. And I do not know of ones of any other who openly and regularly write and talk about how their god more and more constantly does anything like this with them.
So, you are saying Muslims and Christians are both the same, talking about what God is doing for them, and you see their lives changing for the better. So, you say both are the same > and self-produced.
By the way, Temirlan > you say we all can do things ourselves, then say God has done us good, if I understand you correctly. What can be happening indeed is how religious people are mainly interested in what they themselves get from God, and they do things in order to get brownie points to get them to heaven. They are not really caring about any and all others as themselves.
Now, yes, this can be the same for cultural Muslims and cultural Christians.
But, how about Joseph? Genesis 37-50. The LORD was with Joseph. So, Joseph was greatly blessed, but this was while doing all-loving things . . . since it was God all-loving blessing him.
I am satisfied I know people who care about and are loving to all others, as Jesus love people.
Are there Muslims who you can say are the same, as this?
Ok, I'll offer two things, at once > how Christianity and Islam can be different, plus how
An example is stoning a person for adultery. This is in both the Qur'an and the Christian Scriptures, right?
So, yeah, you can say both are the same.
But does the Qur'an's order to stone people for adultery have the same purpose as the Christian scripture's directive to stone people to death for adultery??
A self-boasting person identifying as a Muslim will likely understand stoning for adultery the same way as a self-righteous person claiming to be a Christian. Both will want to just kill the person who is guilty of adultery. They welcome the opportunity to feel superior to and make themselves the judge of somebody else.
But this is not how the Bible says to handle people of adultery > not with a self-righteous spirit.
Now . . . then . . . does the Qur'an, though, teach against being self-righteous in how ones stone a person for adultery? Does the Qur'an get into how God would have us in our hearts while executing someone for adultery? Possibly the Qur'an says the death penalty for adultery is mainly a practical thing to do to keep control of people in marriages? And/or, for all I know, it is said to be mainly to make sure people get to heaven.
The Bible's death penalty order for adultery is said to be meant to put away evil from God's people. And they are told not to have sympathy for the stoned people.
However, for us now in Jesus, there is plenty we can gain from how Moses passed on the death penalty command for adultery. For us, this shows how we need to love other people, not take what someone else has, but love as family. The order is intended not merely so we kill people who commit adultery, but it is meant to prevent adultery, and so we instead learn how to love as family with our neighbor. Also, it is meant to show us that we need to learn how to love with our own spouses, and not accept excuses to go elsewhere. So, the command is not meant only to get rid of wrong people, but to help people learn how to love.
Also, it shows how a person's life is not worth much if a person is so unloving that he or she can betray one's own and another's spouse. Betraying is not an act of love. I consider that it is an act of hatred to betray another person. And in God's word it is clear how if we hate someone, we do not have eternal life living in us > 1 John 3:15. Therefore, adultery is an anti-love crime. Such hating can be considered to be like murder. Deuteronomy 22:25-27 says that if a man rapes another man's fiancée, this is the same as rising up and killing that man. So, yes, sexual crime can be considered an act of hatred and murder.
So, does the Qur'an get this concerned about if we are personally caring about other people, as our reason for not committing adultery, among other things? Is the main motive to be self-preservation, or so we can learn how to love any and all people?
I think it is clear how the Bible is especially concerned about love being our reason why we do not do sins.
And this order to stone someone for adultery, in the Bible, can show us how in sin our lives are not worth much or anything. Or else, I would think God would say to do something different. It shows that without Jesus death is the only option. But with Jesus a person can be forgiven and changed to be a loving person; and there is no need to stone a loving person for what an unloving person did, right? If God changes you from adultery, you are no longer that evil person. This is the best revenge, then, against evil
So, is this the same as Islam????
Another item > this capital punishment for adultery order was given before Jesus came to redeem us. Without Jesus, there is no cure for a person guilty of adultery. So, this order could be intended, while multi-tasking in other ways, to show how Jesus is needed.
And an overall point is how God is able to change any person to love. But this is with Jesus.
But yes a number of both Muslims and Christians might take the stoning order for adultery to mean God expects us to manage our own selves. But I offer the overall message of the Bible shows how a person of adultery might not deserve anything good, but God alone is able to change him or her into a trustworthy person whom God Himself trusts and shares with that person in His own love. But this comes with how Jesus so worthy went to Calvary for us, being worthy to take our place of our death penalty which we deserve, and gain God's favor of salvation for us.
We could not die right for our own sins. A person being stoned likely would not be trying to please God by dying right for one's own sin. But Jesus died right, for us; and now we can trust in Him, for all this is meant to bring us to . . . discovering better than I can show and tell.
I have read all your comments and enjoy your intellectual challenges. A lot of your threads address the same issue, so I chose this one on “faith”, but might have to address the others also.
