why dont you christians like mormons
- Thread starter mooseboy84
- Start date
Yesterday at 06:08 PM Cardinal_James said this in Post #79
I can only assume that due to the inactivity of this thread, their isn't a mormon out there that can qualifiy his or her beliefs and practices. Chalk one up for sanity and intelligence.
Just as there are many uninformed Mormons, there are many uninformed Christians as well. All God's people should challenge what they think they believe to the Bible.
Challenging people to do their homework is a whole lot better than being condescending towards them.
Upvote
0
mormon proof- texts from the bible
by Marian Bodine
EZEKIEL 37:15-17
Mormonism teaches to investigators and followers alike that the correct interpretation of this passage is that, the sticks are really scrolls, the stick of Judah is the Bible, the stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon, the joining of these sticks mean the joining of the two writings, the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
In the Hebrew the word pronounced ets means wood, tree or stick and was translated in the KJV Bible as stick (e.g. Numbers 15:32, 1 Kings 17:10, Lamentations 4:8, 2 Kings 6:6).
In Hebrew the word pronounced sepher means scroll or book and was translated as scroll in Isaiah 34:4.
The Hebrew words pronounced dabar, and translated siph-rah, mean and are translated in various passages, word, book or writing.
In verse 15 the LORD told Ezekiel precisely what to write on the two sticks, and it was not the Bible and the Book of Mormon. He was told to write, For Judah, and for the children of Israel, his companions then take another stick, and write upon it, for Joseph the stick of Ephriam, and for all the house of Israel, his companions. That was it; nothing more was to be written upon the sticks. As you study Old Testament history, you will find that many times sticks, rods, and staffs were used by the children of Israel to write their tribes and genealogy upon.
The Bible speaks of books (sepher) in many verses, such as Isaiah 30:8; Jeremiah 36:2; Ezekiel 2:9; Daniel 12:1; Malachi 3:16, and Joshua 1:8.
The Bible also speaks of sticks (ets) in verses such as Numbers 15:32-33; 1 Kings 17:10-12; 2 Kings 6:6 and Lamentations 4:8.
But God never interchanges these words. The people even asked Ezekiel what he meant by what he said and did in verse 18. We as Gods children often need to be shown by visual aids what God is trying to convey to us. The same was true in OT times as we see here in the 37th chapter of Ezekiel.
In the next few verses, the Lord declared the two kingdoms of Israel would be brought together as one nation and with one King again. In fact, the entire chapter deals with the restoration of Israel to her own land. At this time in history, the two kingdoms were divided. God never wants His children against each other.
Furthermore, it was not Ezekiel who wrote either the whole Bible or the Book of Mormon. Besides, the Book of Mormon was written on gold plates and not sticks or scrolls. Obviously, the LDS interpretation does not fit the context of this passage.
ISAIAH 29:1-4
This is another passage of Scripture that the Mormon says substantiates the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.
Quoting from Mormon Apostle LeGrand Richards in his book, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, page 69:
Now, obviously, the only way a dead people could speak out of the ground or low out of the dust would be by the written word, and this the people did through the Book of Mormon. Truly it has a familiar spirit, for it contains the words of the prophets of the God of Israel.
The Hebrew word pronounced OV or OB, means a necromancer and is translated in the Bible as familiar spirit.
The Hebrew pronounced DORASH, means to inquire or to follow after. One time in Deuteronomy 18:11 it is used with the dead as the direct object. To follow after the dead is translated as necromancer, which is communication with demons.
All of these definitions put together with a word or two from the dictionary and we have witchcraft that is the conjuring up of the spirits of the dead!
Quoting from a LDS publication Mormon Doctrine, Plain and Simple, or Leaves From the Tree of Life, Charles W. Penrose, 1888:
The temple where the ordinances can be administered for the dead, is the place to hear from the dead. The Priesthood in the flesh, when it is necessary, will receive communications from the Priesthood behind the veil. Most holy conversations on all things pertaining to the redemption of the race, belong in the places prepared in the temples.
That is the occultic practice of spiritism!
There are at least 15 Old Testament references to familiar spirit, and all of them deal with witchcraft. See Leviticus 19:31; 20:6,27; 1 Samuel 28:3-9; 2 Kings 21:6; 23:24; Isaiah 8:19; 19:3; 29:4. In the LDS publication Missionary Pal page 170, the author tells us, Spiritualism not of God!
If the members of the LDS Church believe that the Book of Mormon has a
familiar spirit, they are identifying it with witchcraft! So be it.
ISAIAH 29:11-12
Mormonism teaches this passage was fulfilled when Joseph Smith received the Gold Plates and Martin Harris took a copy of some of the caractors to Professor Anthon. A portion of this event is recorded in the Pearl of Great Price, JS 2:63-65.
These events do not fit Isaiah 29:11-12 because the text shows 1) this is a parable and the subject is a vision and not a book, 2) the vision of the prophets of that day had become as meaningless to the people as the words of a book that was sealed. Isaiah was referring to the condition of the people at that time and not a book of some future time, 3)according to Harris, the professor said the translation was correct. Anthon could have said this only if he read it. But Isaiah said the learned man could not read the book because it was sealed! The only way the professor knew the plates were sealed was because Harris, Told him they were. In our passage of Scripture, in Isaiah, the Book went to the learned man firstthen to the unlearned. But the Mormon story has the book of gold delivered first to the unlearned Smith who copied some of the caractors of his translation on a piece of paper which was taken to the learned Anthon. In Isaiah the same sealed book was taken to both the learned man and the unlearned man. But Anthon did not receive any booksealed or unsealed, and in Isaiah the book was delivered to the unlearned and he simply said, I am not learned, and he made no effort to read or translate it. But Smith claimed he (Smith) did read the book, even though unlearned.
The Mormon Apostle LeGrand Richards said, Professor Anthon did not realize that he was literally fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah. (op. cit., p.50) But the professor didnt believe he was fulfilling Mormon prophecy, because in a letter to E.D. Howe, a Painsville, Ohio newspaper editor, he (Anthon) relates the events as a hoax and a scheme to cheat the farmer (Harris) out of money. Instead of fulfilling prophecy he (Anthon) became somewhat of a prophet himself, in that Harris actually did lose money.
Let no one tell you what a passage or portion of Scripture says without checking it yourself with what the Holy Spirit says to your heart. And when you do read a Scripture, read all of the passage in context. Remember A text taken from its context, becomes a pretext.
by Marian Bodine
EZEKIEL 37:15-17
Mormonism teaches to investigators and followers alike that the correct interpretation of this passage is that, the sticks are really scrolls, the stick of Judah is the Bible, the stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon, the joining of these sticks mean the joining of the two writings, the Bible and the Book of Mormon.
In the Hebrew the word pronounced ets means wood, tree or stick and was translated in the KJV Bible as stick (e.g. Numbers 15:32, 1 Kings 17:10, Lamentations 4:8, 2 Kings 6:6).
In Hebrew the word pronounced sepher means scroll or book and was translated as scroll in Isaiah 34:4.
The Hebrew words pronounced dabar, and translated siph-rah, mean and are translated in various passages, word, book or writing.
In verse 15 the LORD told Ezekiel precisely what to write on the two sticks, and it was not the Bible and the Book of Mormon. He was told to write, For Judah, and for the children of Israel, his companions then take another stick, and write upon it, for Joseph the stick of Ephriam, and for all the house of Israel, his companions. That was it; nothing more was to be written upon the sticks. As you study Old Testament history, you will find that many times sticks, rods, and staffs were used by the children of Israel to write their tribes and genealogy upon.
The Bible speaks of books (sepher) in many verses, such as Isaiah 30:8; Jeremiah 36:2; Ezekiel 2:9; Daniel 12:1; Malachi 3:16, and Joshua 1:8.
The Bible also speaks of sticks (ets) in verses such as Numbers 15:32-33; 1 Kings 17:10-12; 2 Kings 6:6 and Lamentations 4:8.
But God never interchanges these words. The people even asked Ezekiel what he meant by what he said and did in verse 18. We as Gods children often need to be shown by visual aids what God is trying to convey to us. The same was true in OT times as we see here in the 37th chapter of Ezekiel.
In the next few verses, the Lord declared the two kingdoms of Israel would be brought together as one nation and with one King again. In fact, the entire chapter deals with the restoration of Israel to her own land. At this time in history, the two kingdoms were divided. God never wants His children against each other.
Furthermore, it was not Ezekiel who wrote either the whole Bible or the Book of Mormon. Besides, the Book of Mormon was written on gold plates and not sticks or scrolls. Obviously, the LDS interpretation does not fit the context of this passage.
ISAIAH 29:1-4
This is another passage of Scripture that the Mormon says substantiates the coming forth of the Book of Mormon.
Quoting from Mormon Apostle LeGrand Richards in his book, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, page 69:
Now, obviously, the only way a dead people could speak out of the ground or low out of the dust would be by the written word, and this the people did through the Book of Mormon. Truly it has a familiar spirit, for it contains the words of the prophets of the God of Israel.
The Hebrew word pronounced OV or OB, means a necromancer and is translated in the Bible as familiar spirit.
The Hebrew pronounced DORASH, means to inquire or to follow after. One time in Deuteronomy 18:11 it is used with the dead as the direct object. To follow after the dead is translated as necromancer, which is communication with demons.
All of these definitions put together with a word or two from the dictionary and we have witchcraft that is the conjuring up of the spirits of the dead!
Quoting from a LDS publication Mormon Doctrine, Plain and Simple, or Leaves From the Tree of Life, Charles W. Penrose, 1888:
The temple where the ordinances can be administered for the dead, is the place to hear from the dead. The Priesthood in the flesh, when it is necessary, will receive communications from the Priesthood behind the veil. Most holy conversations on all things pertaining to the redemption of the race, belong in the places prepared in the temples.
That is the occultic practice of spiritism!
There are at least 15 Old Testament references to familiar spirit, and all of them deal with witchcraft. See Leviticus 19:31; 20:6,27; 1 Samuel 28:3-9; 2 Kings 21:6; 23:24; Isaiah 8:19; 19:3; 29:4. In the LDS publication Missionary Pal page 170, the author tells us, Spiritualism not of God!
If the members of the LDS Church believe that the Book of Mormon has a
familiar spirit, they are identifying it with witchcraft! So be it.
ISAIAH 29:11-12
Mormonism teaches this passage was fulfilled when Joseph Smith received the Gold Plates and Martin Harris took a copy of some of the caractors to Professor Anthon. A portion of this event is recorded in the Pearl of Great Price, JS 2:63-65.
These events do not fit Isaiah 29:11-12 because the text shows 1) this is a parable and the subject is a vision and not a book, 2) the vision of the prophets of that day had become as meaningless to the people as the words of a book that was sealed. Isaiah was referring to the condition of the people at that time and not a book of some future time, 3)according to Harris, the professor said the translation was correct. Anthon could have said this only if he read it. But Isaiah said the learned man could not read the book because it was sealed! The only way the professor knew the plates were sealed was because Harris, Told him they were. In our passage of Scripture, in Isaiah, the Book went to the learned man firstthen to the unlearned. But the Mormon story has the book of gold delivered first to the unlearned Smith who copied some of the caractors of his translation on a piece of paper which was taken to the learned Anthon. In Isaiah the same sealed book was taken to both the learned man and the unlearned man. But Anthon did not receive any booksealed or unsealed, and in Isaiah the book was delivered to the unlearned and he simply said, I am not learned, and he made no effort to read or translate it. But Smith claimed he (Smith) did read the book, even though unlearned.
The Mormon Apostle LeGrand Richards said, Professor Anthon did not realize that he was literally fulfilling the prophecy of Isaiah. (op. cit., p.50) But the professor didnt believe he was fulfilling Mormon prophecy, because in a letter to E.D. Howe, a Painsville, Ohio newspaper editor, he (Anthon) relates the events as a hoax and a scheme to cheat the farmer (Harris) out of money. Instead of fulfilling prophecy he (Anthon) became somewhat of a prophet himself, in that Harris actually did lose money.
Let no one tell you what a passage or portion of Scripture says without checking it yourself with what the Holy Spirit says to your heart. And when you do read a Scripture, read all of the passage in context. Remember A text taken from its context, becomes a pretext.
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
Cardinal_James
So This Is Where The Masses Get Their Opiates . .
Mormons: More Wacky Facts . . .
(These are facts that my dear friend Elder Skidmore told me, so remember, i'm just the messanger.
1.The bronze tablets that are said to contain the books of mormon could not be read except with the monical of clarity. But guess what? They lost it after the book was copied. How convieniant!
2. John Smith was not the only guy to see the angel. Apprently, 4 eye witnesses saw him with the angel. This is to help corroberate his story. Hey kids, be the first kid on your block to start a bogus religion. All you need are four friends to say you were talking to an angel!
3. Why are no Mormon preists or high-ranking religous leaders black?
4. The Book of Mormon also says that natice americans resulted from a final ethnic war among those people; that they were cursed by God with a dark skin, although the book promises their eventual blessing and return to God.
5. Joe Smith was a nut! His book History of the Church makes a ton of outrageous claims that all Chrisitians need to take a look at and laugh at. Some of them are; Mary was not a virgin, Jesus and Satan are brothers, God has goddess wives, Man may become god, The black race is a cursed people, The Bible is incomplete and has serious errors, Except for the LDS Church, all churches are false and the coup de gra, Joseph Smith will be our final judge, not Jesus or God! What the hell?
Alright Zyon, your turn, tag!
(These are facts that my dear friend Elder Skidmore told me, so remember, i'm just the messanger.
1.The bronze tablets that are said to contain the books of mormon could not be read except with the monical of clarity. But guess what? They lost it after the book was copied. How convieniant!
2. John Smith was not the only guy to see the angel. Apprently, 4 eye witnesses saw him with the angel. This is to help corroberate his story. Hey kids, be the first kid on your block to start a bogus religion. All you need are four friends to say you were talking to an angel!
3. Why are no Mormon preists or high-ranking religous leaders black?
4. The Book of Mormon also says that natice americans resulted from a final ethnic war among those people; that they were cursed by God with a dark skin, although the book promises their eventual blessing and return to God.
5. Joe Smith was a nut! His book History of the Church makes a ton of outrageous claims that all Chrisitians need to take a look at and laugh at. Some of them are; Mary was not a virgin, Jesus and Satan are brothers, God has goddess wives, Man may become god, The black race is a cursed people, The Bible is incomplete and has serious errors, Except for the LDS Church, all churches are false and the coup de gra, Joseph Smith will be our final judge, not Jesus or God! What the hell?
Alright Zyon, your turn, tag!
Upvote
0
Cardinal_James
So This Is Where The Masses Get Their Opiates . .
That's what i'm all about, respectable discussion. By the way Anthony, could you be a little more sarcastic next time, i didn't quiet catch on
Upvote
0
Cardinal_James
So This Is Where The Masses Get Their Opiates . .
Not bloody likely. I went to high school across the street form a mormon church, and not once have i found one who is willing to talk to a non-mormon seriously inless they are on a mission
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
RevKidd
Simple Mans Theologian
- Dec 18, 2002
- 1,167
- 69
- 48
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Hank Hannegraf recently had a guest on who wrote a book called "One Nation Under Gods" I listened to all three shows and they where excellent. I would recommend this book to anyone and everyone....
Upvote
0
Katya
Regular Member
Willing to talk about what? I talk to anyone, no matter what the subject is. But if they try and tear down my faith, then I won't talk to them. Now I don't mind when people want a friendly debate. It's good for the soul. But I won't talk to anyone who tells me that I'm going to hell because of what I believe. And yes, there are some mormons, well a lot of them, that don't wanna talk to non members. Sad but true.
Upvote
0
The problem with most Christians who want to discuss the "basis" of Mormon Doctrine and Faith, is their usual tack is to throw out canned statements they have found on a webpage. While these statements maybe factual, the Christian is simply parroting what they have read.
If you are going to discuss Christ's teaching stick to what you know, and stick with the Bible.
If you are going to discuss Christ's teaching stick to what you know, and stick with the Bible.
Upvote
0
RevKidd
Simple Mans Theologian
- Dec 18, 2002
- 1,167
- 69
- 48
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
I have many concerns for the Mormon Church. Mainly because they have doctrines that do not fall within the the Holy Bible. Its plain and simple. I don't hate Mormons but I do have concerns for there doctrines.
I fail to see where the LDS Church can put Jesus Christ and Lucifer/Satan on the same level spiritually and call them spiritual brothers. Look at what this false teaching would all involve. For Lucifer to be brothers with Jesus would mean that he is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient. Lucifer by no means is equal to Jesus. So for this to be true you then would have to believe that Jesus Christ is not God which clearly contradicts the Bible.
God does not have a Godess, and they are not making little spirit babies that inhabit human beings. Nor, can we, become Gods ourselves, nor will be giving in marriage in Heaven. Where in the Holy Bible does it state any of this.
Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God. Have any of you Mormons researched the book of Mormon read some of the original writings from Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon orignially published in 1830 had 100's of grammatical errors... If the book was divinley translated, why then all of the undivine erros.
These are just some of the problems that the LDS chruch has. There needs be a paradigm shift in the thinking and theology of the chruch and its leaders.
I fail to see where the LDS Church can put Jesus Christ and Lucifer/Satan on the same level spiritually and call them spiritual brothers. Look at what this false teaching would all involve. For Lucifer to be brothers with Jesus would mean that he is Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient. Lucifer by no means is equal to Jesus. So for this to be true you then would have to believe that Jesus Christ is not God which clearly contradicts the Bible.
God does not have a Godess, and they are not making little spirit babies that inhabit human beings. Nor, can we, become Gods ourselves, nor will be giving in marriage in Heaven. Where in the Holy Bible does it state any of this.
Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God. Have any of you Mormons researched the book of Mormon read some of the original writings from Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon orignially published in 1830 had 100's of grammatical errors... If the book was divinley translated, why then all of the undivine erros.
These are just some of the problems that the LDS chruch has. There needs be a paradigm shift in the thinking and theology of the chruch and its leaders.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Jesus told us how we could identify his true followers.
He said we would know them by the love they have amongst themselves.
Mormons do not have this kind of love. During time of international strife and war. Mormons in one country will wage war with Mormons in another country.
This goes for Catholics and Protestants as well. Catholics and Protestants are part of this world and will try to hurt their own fellow believers. (The American Civil War, WWI, WWII are examples)
True Christians, however, are no part of this world, and thus do not get involved with the wars of the nations. They do not wound or kill their own spiritual brothers.
True Christians love Mormons just as God does, but they and He do not like their violent ways.
Sincerely, Lared
He said we would know them by the love they have amongst themselves.
Mormons do not have this kind of love. During time of international strife and war. Mormons in one country will wage war with Mormons in another country.
This goes for Catholics and Protestants as well. Catholics and Protestants are part of this world and will try to hurt their own fellow believers. (The American Civil War, WWI, WWII are examples)
True Christians, however, are no part of this world, and thus do not get involved with the wars of the nations. They do not wound or kill their own spiritual brothers.
True Christians love Mormons just as God does, but they and He do not like their violent ways.
Sincerely, Lared
Upvote
0
RevKidd
Simple Mans Theologian
- Dec 18, 2002
- 1,167
- 69
- 48
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
I am not so sure that I agree, or am informed enough about this statement. Everything that the mormons stand for IMO and what I see on TV is generally morally good. I'm not too sure I have heard on the news about Mormons going too war with each other. As the other poster said. I would like to know what you base this on.
I am not sure how violent the church of LDS is. Your statements may be based on conflicts years and years ago, but in my lifetimes I am not sure why you would say that the Mormons are violent. Never from any apologists have I heard them say that one of the dangers of Mormonism is "Violence". Like I have stated before, they have doctrines that are not of God and his Holy Word, but I don't see where they are a violent religious community...
Upvote
0
Instead of telling a Mormon what he or she believes, why not ask them?
The same goes for a Christian; telling people what they believe is a one-side discussion. Just ask them, have a exchange from "scratch", start with basics, "What are your core beliefs" and work up.
It does no good to get into heavy debates over Mormon doctrine, with a Mormon, on day one. Save it for later when you have developed a relationship with the other person.
The same goes for a Christian; telling people what they believe is a one-side discussion. Just ask them, have a exchange from "scratch", start with basics, "What are your core beliefs" and work up.
It does no good to get into heavy debates over Mormon doctrine, with a Mormon, on day one. Save it for later when you have developed a relationship with the other person.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
RevKidd
Simple Mans Theologian
- Dec 18, 2002
- 1,167
- 69
- 48
- Faith
- Pentecostal
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
You ask a good question, but many Mormons don't realize the teachings that the church believes. You won't believe how many of them are somewhat stunned when they learn of the Doctrinal Heresies.... Some are upset because the never where told. They don't have the sense or the know how to make sure that what they are being taught is true. They just assume that the leaders of the church are correct. I have friends who love to watch TBN. But if you read and study the word and become a Berean, as we where instructed to do, and learn to rightly divide and handle the word, you will find that many of the people on TBN have stepped over the line of doctrinal truths and are teaching false doctrines. Its plain and simple. People think that just because people write a book, or they are on TV, or that they minister to 1000's on a weekly basis that, these people must be people of God. So millions of people watch this garbage everyday, why. Because they are ignorant of what the word of God says...
I certainly agree with you on this. Don't think we Christians go out hunting Mormons looking to debate and convert.
I have a supervisor who is Mormon. We have not, in the 8 months that I have been under him, have had talks on our theology. There is time and a place for everything, and, if the right opportunity presents itself, I pray that the Lord gives me wisdom....
God Bless
Upvote
0
Similar threads
