Why don't Sabbatarians stone people to death?

godenver1

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The parts I responded to, I read. I don't agree with your interpretation. It literally says to not leave your place. You also didn't respond to the New Testament argument which I read in your post.

Exodus 16:29 says do not leave your place on the Sabbath. Not just abstain from work, but don't leave your place.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The parts I responded to, I read. I don't agree with your interpretation. It literally says to not leave your place. You also didn't respond to the New Testament argument which I read in your post.

I did not think you read them. Please re-read post # 15 linked and post # 16 linked which prove your errors of interpretation. If you cannot address the posts and scriptures that disagree with you does this not worry you that the claims you are making against God's WORD are false claims?
 
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Dkh587

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their house/place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?
What country do you live in?
 
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godenver1

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STAYING HOME ON THE SABBATH?

You are confused read the scriptures and the chapter context you left you. Where does it say in God's 4th commandment we are to stay home on the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH? Here is let's post the 4th Commandment then look at what you posted.

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

Nope! Nothing about staying home on the Sabbath and nothing about stoning anyone in the NEW TESTAMENT either.

..............

Let's look now at the scripture you try to use to say people have to stay home on the Sabbath and add the context back in.

COLLECTING MANA ON THE SABBATH (WORK ON THE SABBATH) IN THE WILDERNESS

EXODUS 16:19-30
[19], And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
[20], Notwithstanding they listened not to Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
[21], And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
[24], And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
[25], And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath to the LORD: to day you shall not find it in the field.
[26], Six days you shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
[27], And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
[28], And the LORD said to Moses, How long refuse you to keep my commandments and my laws?
[29], See, for that the LORD has given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
[30], So the people rested on the seventh day.

This is not a commandment to stay home on the SABBATH it is a command not to WORK on the SABBATH by going out to collect MANNA on the SABBATH because breaking God's 4th Commandment just like every other commandment is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. JESUS and the APOSTLES are our example and there custom NOT to stay at home but to go out to Church or in nature on the SABBATH *LUKE 4:16; ACTS 17:2

..................

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN (KNOWINGLY BREAK ANY ONE OF GOD'S 10 COMMANDMENT) will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23.

OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hope this helps.

Ok, this is the last time I'm addressing this post. If you choose not to respond to my points, I'm not discussing the issue further. As I already mentioned, you contend that Exodus 16:29 commands the Israelites not work and collect manna, and that it doesn't command them to not leave their place . But the problem with that interpretation is that ignores what the text clearly says: let no man leave his home on the sabbath. God commanded them not to collect manna, yes, but He also commanded that they stay in their place on the Sabbath. Exodus 16:29 specifically forbids leaving your 'place'.

Deuteronomy 5:2-3 says: The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

After that, God goes on to give the Ten Commandments to Israel through Moses. Deut 5:2-3 is clear that the laws God were about to give a part of a covenant very specifically designed for OT Israel.

Nehemiah 9:14 confirms that Sabbath observance was made known to Israel Brough Moses. Yes, the Sabbath existed before Moses, but Sabbath observance didn't.

If you want to keep the Sabbath as per the covenant made by God with Israel at Horeb, then I contend that you should keep the whole covenant made with Israel, including killing Sabbath breakers, not traveling too far, not lighting fire, etc., unless you can show where the Bible abrogates you of those responsibilities but not other Old Covenant responsibilities.

Also, nowhere in the New Testament are we commanded to observe the Sabbath. Mark 2 doesn't command us to observe the Sabbath. Show me where sabbath keeping is required in the New Testament/covenant.
 
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BobRyan

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The commandment about staying home, or at least, not traveling is in Exodus 16. That directly relates to the Sabbath commandment.

You say the New Testament doesn't mention killing non-Sabbath keepers. Well, the New Testament also doesn't mention Gentiles having to observe the Sabbath at all, so, by your own logic, Gentile Christians don't have to observe the Sabbath.

And of course the NT does not mention "do not take God's name in vain" at all...so by that logic Christians are free to take God's name in vain.

I think that even Martin Luther admits that the Sabbath commandment is for "mankind" and was kept by Adam in Eden - even after the fall of Adam. And the Bible says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - all mankind keeps the Sabbath as a day of worship "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Also, I thought that the argument was that God's commands are eternal. If God commanded Israelites to put Sabbath-breakers to death, how is it, biblically, that you can claim that specific commandment was transitory and temporary

That point is one where both sides already agree to the Bible detail that the civil laws about punishment -- that were enforced under that theocracy -- ceased when that theocracy ceased. See section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and section 19 of the "Westminster Confession of Faith" to notice agreement between non-Bible Sabbath groups and the bible-Sabbath groups on that one key point.

This is a point where both sides already agree to that detail. i.e. - the easy part.
 
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BobRyan

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Ok, this is the last time I'm addressing this post. If you choose not to respond to my points, I'm not discussing the issue further. As I already mentioned, you contend that Exodus 16:29 commands the Israelites not work and collect manna, and that it doesn't command them to stay home. But the problem with that interpretation is that ignores what the text clearly says: let no man leave his home on the sabbath. .

They were in the desert and not much else to do at that point.

But it is instructive that Christ and the Pharisees and the Sadducees were all "outside" their homes walking around on the Sabbath - before the cross had changed anything in the law at all. You are arguing for rigor on this point that even Christ before the cross was not agreeing with - and that his worst accusers never charged him with error on this point during His lifetime.

And they had the concept of a "Sabbath days journey" in Acts 1 -- which would not be much of an issue out in the desert.
 
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godenver1

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They were in the desert and not much else to do at that point.

But it is instructive that Christ and the Pharisees and the Sadducees were all "outside" their homes walking around on the Sabbath - before the cross had changed anything in the law at all. You are arguing for rigor on this point that even Christ before the cross was not agreeing with - and that his worst accusers never charged him with error on this point during His lifetime.

And they had the concept of a "Sabbath days journey" in Acts 1 -- which would not be much of an issue out in the desert.
Yes, I agree that "home" is probably too strict an interpretation, and as such, will rescind that argument and edit my posts to reflect that. However, is still says 'place'. So God still forbids leaving one's place in Exodus 16:29.

I apologise for that error, and thank you for the correction, but stand by my other points until refuted.
 
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godenver1

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ty, so you already know that the other points will be (were long ago) refuted then?
No, they weren't. Deuteronomy 5:2-3, Nehemiah 9:14, and e lack of Sabbath commandments in the New Testament are yet to be properly refuted.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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No, they weren't. Deuteronomy 5:2-3, Nehemiah 9:14, and e lack of Sabbath commandments in the New Testament are yet to be properly refuted.
I don't mean in this thread. I think you know (or once knew) what is true and are fighting it for unknown reasons. Not sure , nor why, but that's what it looks like to me.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Ok, this is the last time I'm addressing this post.

You have not addressed the post the first time how can it be the last time when you have not even started.

If you choose not to respond to my points, I'm not discussing the issue further.

Actually this is quite a funny post coming from you considering you admitted you did not read my posts to you addressing everything you said point by point with God's WORD then completely ignoring both of my posts and all the scriptures in them proving your claims are in error and false claims. You are still to address my posts and the scriptures in them so how is it you think we are having a discussion to begin with if you ignore my posts and all the scriptures in them that disagree with your false claims?

As I already mentioned, you contend that Exodus 16:29 commands the Israelites not work and collect manna, and that it doesn't command them to stay home. But the problem with that interpretation is that ignores what the text clearly says: let no man leave his home on the sabbath. God commanded them not to collect manna, yes, but He also commanded that they stay home/in their place on the Sabbath. Exodus 16:29 specifically forbids leaving your 'place'.

Nope. If you read the post addressed to your claims about staying home then you would see the reason God's people were told to stay home was in relation to the CONTEXT which was that they were going out on the SABBATH to collect MANNA. Here is the post read what it says and respond to what the post and scriptures are saying.

COLLECTING MANA ON THE SABBATH (WORK ON THE SABBATH) IN THE WILDERNESS

EXODUS 16:19-30
[19], And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning.
[20], Notwithstanding they listened not to Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.
[21], And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted.
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
[23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
[24], And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
[25], And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath to the LORD: to day you shall not find it in the field.
[26], Six days you shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
[27], And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
[28], And the LORD said to Moses, How long refuse you to keep my commandments and my laws?
[29], See, for that the LORD has given you the sabbath, therefore he gives you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide you every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
[30], So the people rested on the seventh day.

This is not a commandment to stay home on the SABBATH it is a command not to WORK on the SABBATH by going out to collect MANNA on the SABBATH because breaking God's 4th Commandment just like every other commandment is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. JESUS and the APOSTLES are our example and there custom NOT to stay at home but to go out to Church or in nature on the SABBATH *LUKE 4:16; ACTS 17:2

...............

NOW Let's look specifically at what GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT says...

EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

Nope! Nothing about staying home on the Sabbath and nothing about stoning anyone in the NEW TESTAMENT either.

Please show me where does it say in God's 4th Commandment to stay home on the SABBATH? If your VIEW is correct everyone that went to Church on the SABBATH including JESUS and all the APOSTLES SINNED against GOD.

Can you see your error here brother?
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Deuteronomy 5:2-3 says: The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3 It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today. After that, God goes on to give the Ten Commandments to Israel through Moses. Deut 5:2-3 is clear that the laws God were about to give a part of a covenant very specifically designed for OT Israel. Nehemiah 9:14 confirms that Sabbath observance was made known to Israel Brough Moses. Yes, the Sabbath existed before Moses, but Sabbath observance didn't.

You need to read your bible more. You are confused. Let's see why. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part og God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT which is to God's ISRAEL *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.

Yes, the Sabbath existed before Moses, but Sabbath observance didn't.

Where does it say in God's WORD (scripture please) Sabbath observance did not exist before MOSES? Adam and EVE where made on the 6th DAY of the creation week *GENESIS 1:26-31. JESUS says he made the SABBATH for mankind and he is the LORD of the SABBATH and command's us to REMEMBER the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH as a memorial of CREATION and to keep it HOLY because he BLESSED it and made it a HOLY DAY *MARK 2:27-28; GENESIS 2:1-3; EXODUS 20:8-11. Now if GOD made the SABBATH for man then ADAM and EVE were the first SABBATH keepers. Before the written LAW there was the Spoken LAW handed down to man from GOD and ADAM and EVE. It is also written of ABRAHAM, *GENESIS 27:5, Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. The HEBREW word for law used here is TORAH. God's people kept God's SABBATH before the written WORD by the SPOKEN WORD of GOD.

Hope this helps
 
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LoveGodsWord

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If you want to keep the Sabbath as per the covenant made by God with Israel at Horeb, then I contend that you should keep the whole covenant made with Israel, including killing Sabbath breakers, not traveling too far, not lighting fire, etc., unless you can show where the Bible abrogates you of those responsibilities but not other Old Covenant responsibilities.

Your just repeating yourself without addressing any of the posts and scriptures that disagree with you. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part og God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT which is to God's ISRAEL *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.

WAGES OF SIN (Breaking any of God's 10 Commandments) IS DEATH IN THE OLD COVENANT AND THE NEW COVENANT.

We are in the NEW COVENANT now. Nearly all God's 10 commandments under the OLD COVENANT had the death penalty attached to them under the CIVIL laws of ISRAEL if they were broken not just God's 4th commandment *DEUTERONOMY 13:6-18; 1 SAMUEL 26:19; DEUTERONOMY 13:1-10; 17:2-5; 27:15; DEUTERONOMY 7:25-26; LEVITICUS 24:10-17; EXODUS 31:14-15; 35:2; LEVITICUS 20:9; DEUTERONOMY 21:18-21; EXODUS 21:17; EXODUS 21:12-14; LEVITICUS 20; JOHN 8:5; EXODUS 21:16; DEUTERONOMY 19:15-21.

That was to teach God's people the wages of SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) is death as it does in the NEW COVENANT *ROMANS 6:23 although JESUS says vengence is mine at his 2nd coming *ROMANS 12:17-19; REVELATION 22:12.

According to God's WORD, ALL those who CONTINUE in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8. We are all sick with sin and need a Physician *MATTHEW 9:12-13. JESUS says arise take up your bed and walk. I believe him. How about you?

God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

God's people are in every church *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break this commandment out of IGNORANCE because what they have been taught in the Churches they may be in. JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW is that he will call his people out from following the teachings and tradtions of men to worship God in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Also, nowhere in the New Testament are we commanded to observe the Sabbath. Mark 2 doesn't command us to observe the Sabbath. Show me where sabbath keeping is required in the New Testament/covenant.

Why would you need to have another commandment to KEEP God's 4th Commandment in the NEW COVENANT when GOD already gave the 10 Commandments in the OLD COVENANT and everyone of the 10 commandments are repeated in the NEW COVENANT?

WHERE is the scripture that says GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP SUNDAY as a HOLY DAY?

JESUS is our example and both JESUS and ALL THE APOSLTES kept God's 4th Commandment according to the 10 Commandments. God's ETERNAL LAW (10 Commandmetns) give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD AND EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; PSALMS 119:172.

JESUS and all the APOSTLES taught God's 10 COMMANDMENT (scriputres here click me).
God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20. God's WORD says if we break ANY ONE of God's commandments we stand guilty before God of SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)

Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9) There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God? In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).

Hope this helps.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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@godenver1 Now if you wish to have a discussion please respond and address all these posts and the scriptures in them that prove your in error and are making false claims as has been done section by section and scripture by scripture with your posts.

If you cannot why do you not believe God's WORD? Only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it. Ignoring God's WORD does not make it magically disappear. We wll all be judged by it come judgment day *JOHN 12:47-48. At this time however it will be too late to ignore or argue with God. Many are called but few are chosen.
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, I agree that "home" is probably too strict an interpretation, and as such, will rescind that argument and edit my posts to reflect that. However, is still says 'place'. So God still forbids leaving one's place in Exodus 16:29.

I apologise for that error, and thank you for the correction, but stand by my other points until refuted.

Most Sabbath keeping Christians do not plan on taking a trip on the Sabbath. And I don't think Jesus went much farther than a "Sabbath days journey" (Acts 1 -- about half a mile) on the Sabbath as a general rule. So we do engage in short outdoor walks as opposed to 20 mile hikes etc. But the work/effort" to walk half a mile is more than the time/work to drive 10 miles depending on the terrain and how easy it is for you to walk. In any case - not the "first thing to solve" on this topic. The bigger one is the one where Martin Luther says it is a command that was given to mankind in Eden and still applies to all mankind today. Most people have not even figured out that much.
 
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godenver1

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Nope. If you read the post addressed to your claims about staying home then you would see the reason God's people were told to stay home was in relation to the CONTEXT which was that they were going out on the SABBATH to collect MANNA. Here is the post read what it says and respond to what the post and scriptures are saying.
I'm not arguing as to why God commanded the Israelites to stay in their places, but that He did tell them to stay in their places. I don't disagree with anything in this argument, so I'm not sure why you keep repeating it.

This is not a commandment to stay home on the SABBATH it is a command not to WORK on the SABBATH by going out to collect MANNA on the SABBATH because breaking God's 4th Commandment just like every other commandment is SIN *JAMES 2:10-11. JESUS and the APOSTLES are our example and there custom NOT to stay at home but to go out to Church or in nature on the SABBATH *LUKE 4:16; ACTS 17:2
It's both a command not to work, and to stay in their places. It is literally a command for the Israelites to stay in their places on the Sabbath. I'm not sure how much clearer the text can get. I'll admit that I'm not enitrely sure what the word 'places' means, and how to reconcile that with Luke 4:16, but it cannot be argued that God commanded the Israelites, in Exodus 16:29, to not leave their places.

I've already rescinded my strict interpretation and apologised. Perhaps you didn't see it. I'm sorry for my bad intereptation, both to you and God. Still, God commands the Israelites not to leave their places on the Sabbath.
EXODUS 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY, TO KEEP IT HOLY [Made Holy at creation GENESIS 2:3]. [9], Six days shall you labor, and do all your work: [10], But THE SEVENTH DAY [ Genesis 2:1-3] IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD : in it you shall not do any work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates: [WHY?] [11], FOR IN SIX DAYS THE LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE SEA, AND ALL THAT IS IN THEM IS, AND RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY; WHEREFORE THE LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY. [Refering to GENESIS 2:1-3]

Nope! Nothing about staying home on the Sabbath and nothing about stoning anyone in the NEW TESTAMENT either.
I know it doesn't. But, and here is the apple of discord, my point is that it is arbitrary to seperate the Ten Commandments in Exodus with the rest of the laws given in Exodus. Either we're under them, or not*. You may argue that the Ten Commandments are God's commandments, and not Moses's commandments, but then I'd point you to Exodus 35 again where God Himself, not Moses, commands killing non-Sabbath keepers. Before any one responds with civil/ceremonial/moral distinction, I'd like to ask you to provide biblical evidence for your response. Where does the Bible say: "keep these Sabbath commandments, but not the others"?**

*I affirm that Christians are under the Ten Commandments, but as they are repeated and/or reaffirmed in the New Testament, and not as given to the nation of Israel.

**Also, I affirm that the OT does contain ceremonial, civil and moral laws, and that moral laws are eternally binding. How do you know, however, which laws are ceremonial and civil and moral, biblically speaking? Does the Bible categorise them?

You need to read your bible more. You are confused. Let's see why. God's ISRAEL in the NEW COVENANT are all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD. If you are not a part og God's ISRAEL you have no part in the NEW COVENANT which is to God's ISRAEL *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.
Not sure what this had to do with anything. Once again, I don't disagree. I never argued to the contrary.


Where does it say in God's WORD (scripture please) Sabbath observance did not exist before MOSES?
It doesn't. Where does it say in God's WORD (scripture please) that anyone in the book of Genesis observed that Sabbath?

On the contrary in Nehemiah 9:14, it says the sabbath was made know through Moses. I'm not concerned with what the Bible doesn't say; rather, I care about what it does say.

Adam and EVE where made on the 6th DAY of the creation week *GENESIS 1:26-31.
I agree.

JESUS says he made the SABBATH for mankind and he is the LORD of the SABBATH
I agree.

and command's us to REMEMBER the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH as a memorial of CREATION
Jesus does no such thing, at least not in His earthly ministry. Do you have Scripture to prove it. Show me where Jesus commands us to observe the Sabbath as a memorial of creation.

Now if GOD made the SABBATH for man then ADAM and EVE were the first SABBATH keepers.
Fair assumption, but without biblical evidence it's just that - an assumption. Prove to me with Scripture that Adam and Eve oberved the Seventh Day Sabbath. Verse and chapter, please.
 
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BobRyan

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It's both a command not to work, and to stay in their places. It is literally a command for the Israelites to stay in their places on the Sabbath.

It is also a command for "holy convocation" and "solemn assembly" in Lev 23:2-3 which is at the same time as Exodus 20:8-11. And in the 2-3 million person camp of Israel in the desert -- that solemn assembly could results in a bit of walking outside.

No wonder the Acts 1:10 concept of "a Sabbath days walk".

And no wonder in the Gospel we see both Christ and the Jewish leaders "outside their homes" on the Sabbath.
 
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Soyeong

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God commands the Israelites in Exodus 35:1-3 to kill those who don't observe the Sabbath. In Exodus 16:29, He commands the Israelites to not leave their place on the Sabbath. Why aren't these commandments, straight from God's Holy Word, kept by all Sabbatarians?

Jesus gave himself to pay the penalty for our sins, so it would be unjust to enforce a penalty that has already been paid. Still the fact that God considers breaking the Sabbath to be worthy of the death penalty and the fact that Jesus gave himself to pay that penalty should make us want to go and sin no more. In Exodus 16:29, it is speaking specifically in regard to not going outside to gather mana, not as a general prohibition, especially because part of God's instructions for how to keep the Sabbath is to have a solemn assembly.
 
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Titus 3:1
Remind them
to be submissive to rulers and authorities,
to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

Our leaders have determined that religious traditions are a matter of conscience and no person can be killed for a difference in religious beliefs.
 
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