LDS Why don't Mormon missionaries hand out the tripple combination?

[DW1980]

DW1980, Christ yanked me from the brink of death so many times- He is my Savior is so many ways, so many times. I love Him with very of my being, and devote myself to Him every minute as His disciple-- the Biblical definition of a Christian (Acts 11:26).

This is not deception, but a statement of fact. I cannot deny or lie about it, even if someone were to take my life for singing that joyful song:

"I believe in Christ; he is my King!
With all my heart to him I’ll sing;
I’ll raise my voice in praise and joy,
In grand amens my tongue employ.
I believe in Christ; he is God’s Son.
On earth to dwell his soul did come.
He healed the sick; the dead he raised.
Good works were his; his name be praised!"

There is more to this than using the word "Christian". "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." (2 Corinthians 11:4)

The Jesus of the Bible is God (John 1:1), not the literal son of a "Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother", nor is he the brother of Satan.

That is a beautiful hymn, but there are other Mormon hymns which are blasphemous, take this one:

1. Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.​

2. Praise to his mem’ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Plead unto heav’n while the earth lauds his fame.

3. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

4. Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know “Brother Joseph” again.
Praise to the Man

Gods - plural? Kings and nations revere Joseph Smith? Joseph Smith's blood pleads unto heaven? He has a kingdom? These are all things the Bible ascribes to Jesus and none other. And this is exactly the kind of thing I mean about starting to dig into what Mormonism really teaches.

 

[Jane_Doe]

There is more to this than using the word "Christian". "For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." (2 Corinthians 11:4)

The Jesus of the Bible is God (John 1:1), not the literal son of a "Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother", nor is he the brother of Satan.

DW1980, do you believe that there is more than one Father?

(I will address rest of your post too, but this question is super important for understanding stuff)

 

[DW1980]

DW1980, do you believe that there is more than one Father?

(I will address rest of your post too, but this question is super important for understanding stuff)

Hi

As in Father God I assume? I believe in one God who exists as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Don

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hi

As in Father God I assume? I believe in one God who exists as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Don

I'm just asking about the Father. The Son is not the Father, nor is the Spirit the Father.

Do you believe that there is more than one Father?

 

[DW1980]

I'm just asking about the Father. The Son is not the Father, nor is the Spirit the Father.

Do you believe that there is more than one Father?

As long as we are talking about God, then no, there is only one Heavenly Father.

 

[Jane_Doe]

As long as we are talking about God, then no, there is only one Heavenly Father.

And He is the Father of everyone? Yes? They'd have to be, unless there was some other Father.

And what do you call people share a father/Father? Brothers (or sisters). This doesn't mean everyone is the same- the Bible is full of one righteous person following Christ and the other loving wickedness.

 

[DW1980]

And He is the Father of everyone? Yes? They'd have to be, unless there was some other Father.

And what do you call people share a father/Father? Brothers (or sisters).

Yeah, I'd agree with that. (but it generates a follow up question I would have for you, but I'll sit on that for now!) Interestingly Hebrews 2:11 states that Jesus isn't ashamed to call Christians his brothers and sisters - "So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters."

 

[Jane_Doe]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. (but it generates a follow up question I would have for you, but I'll sit on that for now!) Interestingly Hebrews 2:11 states that Jesus isn't ashamed to call Christians his brothers and sisters - "So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters."

That's LDS beliefs: there's only one Father. Yes, technically that makes everyone brothers and sisters, but doesn't mean much else. The Bible is full of examples of one sibling follow God the other loving wickedness.

When anti-Mormon critics try to spin this as "Mormons believe Christ and Satan are brothers" ... it's just silly. Mormons believe there's only one Father, so everyone are siblings technically. Doesn't mean they are the same: Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God. Lucifer rebelled, became Satan and king of lies.

 

[DW1980]

That's LDS beliefs: there's only one Father. Yes, technically that makes everyone brothers and sisters, but doesn't mean much else. The Bible is full of examples of one sibling follow God the other loving wickedness.

When anti-Mormon critics try to spin this as "Mormons believe Christ and Satan are brothers" ... it's just silly. Mormons believe there's only one Father, so everyone are siblings technically. Doesn't mean they are the same: Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God. Lucifer rebelled, became Satan and king of lies.

Okay, here's my follow up. Doesn't the Mormon Church teach that God was once a man who followed a plan of salvation to become a god, and that he has a Father God, who was also once a man?

 

[Jane_Doe]

Okay, here's my follow up. Doesn't the Mormon Church teach that God was once a man who followed a plan of salvation to become a god, and that he has a Father God, who was also once a man?

Nope.

There are a grand total of two quotes which are non-doctrinal speculations that somewhat address that subject. But they are non-doctrinal speculations that don't carry any authority or infallibility claimers. An person can agree, disagree, don't know, don't care, etc with this statements and still be LDS 100% in good standing. Regardless, they aren't actively talked about in LDS Church nor actively taught. If you want me to elaborate more on this, feel free to ask.

 

[DW1980]

Nope.

There are a grand total of two quotes which are non-doctrinal speculations that somewhat address that subject. But they are non-doctrinal speculations that don't carry any authority or infallibility claimers. An person can agree, disagree, don't know, don't care, etc with this statements and still be LDS 100% in good standing. Regardless, they aren't actively talked about in LDS Church nor actively taught. If you want me to elaborate more on this, feel free to ask.

Yeah, please

I did a very quick search on google and found this:

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret.... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know... that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves... the same as all Gods have done before you...” - Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., “King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses, v. 6, pp. 3-4, also in Teachings of the Prophet of Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346.

“He is our Father – the Father of our Spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333.

“The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 3, p. 93.

“Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar that through which we are now passing. He became God – an exalted being – through obedience to the same eternal Gosepl truths that we are given opportunity to obey.” - Apostle Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 104

“God is an exalted man. Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith... that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man...” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 1, p. 10

“There is a statement often repeated in the Church, and while it is not in one of the Standard Church Works, it is accepted as church doctrine, and this is: ‘As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” - Apostle LeGrand Richards, letter to Morris L. Reynolds, July 14, 1966, cited by Tanner in Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, p. 164.

“The Father became the Father at some time before ‘the beginning' as humans know it, by experiencing a mortality similar to that experienced on earth... Gods and humans are the same species of being, but at different stages of development in a divine continuum, and that the heavenly Father and Mother are the heavenly pattern, model, and example of what mortals can become through obedience to the gospel.... Knowing that they are the literal offspring of Heavenly Parents and that they can become like those parents through the gospel of Jesus Christ is a wellspring of religious motivation.” - Encyclopedia of Mormonism

"The idea that the Lord our God is not a personage of tabernacle is entirely a mistaken notion. He was once a man. Brother Kimball quoted a saying of Joseph the Prophet, that he would not worship a God who had not a Father; and I do not know that he would if be had not a mother; the one would be as absurd as the other. If he had a Father, he was made in his likeness. And if he is our Father we are made after his image and likeness. He once possessed a body, as we now do; and our bodies are as much to us, as his body to him. Every iota of this organization is necessary to secure for us an exaltation with the Gods." - Prophet Brigham Young, "True Character of God," Salt Lake Tabernacle, February 23, 1862, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p.286

 

[Jane_Doe]

Yeah, please

I did a very quick search on google and found this:

“God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret.... It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the Character of God, and to know... that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life – to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves... the same as all Gods have done before you...” - Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., “King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses, v. 6, pp. 3-4, also in Teachings of the Prophet of Joseph Smith, pp. 345-346.

“He is our Father – the Father of our Spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 7, p. 333.

“The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself.” - Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 3, p. 93.

“Mormon prophets have continuously taught the sublime truth that God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar that through which we are now passing. He became God – an exalted being – through obedience to the same eternal Gosepl truths that we are given opportunity to obey.” - Apostle Milton R. Hunter, The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 104

“God is an exalted man. Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith... that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man...” - Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, v. 1, p. 10

“There is a statement often repeated in the Church, and while it is not in one of the Standard Church Works, it is accepted as church doctrine, and this is: ‘As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” - Apostle LeGrand Richards, letter to Morris L. Reynolds, July 14, 1966, cited by Tanner in Mormonism: Shadow or Reality, p. 164.

“The Father became the Father at some time before ‘the beginning' as humans know it, by experiencing a mortality similar to that experienced on earth... Gods and humans are the same species of being, but at different stages of development in a divine continuum, and that the heavenly Father and Mother are the heavenly pattern, model, and example of what mortals can become through obedience to the gospel.... Knowing that they are the literal offspring of Heavenly Parents and that they can become like those parents through the gospel of Jesus Christ is a wellspring of religious motivation.” - Encyclopedia of Mormonism

"The idea that the Lord our God is not a personage of tabernacle is entirely a mistaken notion. He was once a man. Brother Kimball quoted a saying of Joseph the Prophet, that he would not worship a God who had not a Father; and I do not know that he would if be had not a mother; the one would be as absurd as the other. If he had a Father, he was made in his likeness. And if he is our Father we are made after his image and likeness. He once possessed a body, as we now do; and our bodies are as much to us, as his body to him. Every iota of this organization is necessary to secure for us an exaltation with the Gods." - Prophet Brigham Young, "True Character of God," Salt Lake Tabernacle, February 23, 1862, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p.286

These are all non-doctrinal quotations. If you trace the references, they all trace back to two quotes: the King Follett Discourse, and the Lorenzo Snow Couplet, which are both non-doctrinal speculations themselves.

It is important to note that LDS doctrine does NOT come from single random statements, no matter who speaker is or the subject. Nor do we believe that any person on this Earth is perfect in their understanding of things (besides Christ). Rather doctrine comes from God, as revealed by His prophets and apostles together. This doctrine is transcribed in scripture and official declarations/proclamations.

(Dang it- got to run- will write more in a bit)

 

[TuxAme]

It's Jehovah's Witnesses who leave pamphlets. Mormons want to meet you in person. You don't learn much about Joseph Smith from the Book of Mormon except that the Bible is missing "many plain and precious things."


Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

And the Mormon Church is the Church of the Lamb of God.

Maybe it was JWs. Maybe someone took the literature from them and left it on the porch (I don't live alone). Who knows?

I don't think I've ever seen LDS in my area, though. Where I live, non-denoms and JWs make up a large percentage of people.

 

[Rescued One]

Yes--that was quoted on the other site. Apparently this is a topic that is simply never discussed. Not, it seems, as a taboo subject, but more from what appears to be a lack of interest on everybody's part.

It must be a lack of interest because it's right there in the BoM. I don't think they would say the bishop has to do it. It would have to be done by any Melchizedek priesthood holder, but a Mormon wouldn't ask for an exorcism --- he'd ask for a blessing. And if an exorcism were done, it would be kept secret or one would surely be embarrassed!


Unworthily administering or passing the sacrament, blessing the sick, or participating in other priesthood ordinances is, as Elder David A. Bednar has said, taking the name of God in vain.18 If one is unworthy, he should withdraw from officiating in priesthood ordinances and prayerfully approach his bishop as a first step in repenting and returning to the commandments.
Power in the Priesthood - By Elder Neil L. Andersen

The Apostles Peter, James, and John, who were closest to the Lord in His ministry, appeared next and conferred upon Joseph and Oliver the higher priesthood,15 or “the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God.”16 The priesthood, the scriptures direct, was to be named after Melchizedek, the great high priest to whom Abraham paid tithes.17

This then became their authority. Through the keys of the priesthood, they had access to all of the powers of heaven. They were commanded to carry the gospel unto all nations.18
The Power of the Priesthood - Boyd K. Packer

The extent to which we can exercise the power of the priesthood depends upon personal worthiness, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and obedience to His commandments. When supported by a secure foundation of gospel knowledge, our capacity to worthily use the priesthood is greatly enhanced.
Honor the Priesthood and Use It Well - Elder Richard G. Scott

Faith and priesthood go hand in hand. Faith is power and power is priesthood. After we gain faith, we receive the priesthood. Then, through the priesthood, we grow in faith until, having all power, we become like our Lord.
The Power of God - ensign

 

[Rescued One]

April Conference of the Church, 1844
The King Follett Sermon by Joseph Smith:
Beloved Saints, I will call the attention of this congregation while I address you on the subject of the dead. The decease of our beloved brother, Elder King Follett, who was crushed in a well by the falling of a tub of rock, has more immediately led me to that subject. I have been requested to speak by his friends and relatives, but inasmuch there are a great many in this congregation who live in this city as well as elsewhere, who have lost friends, I feel disposed to speak in the subject in general, and offer you my ideas, so far as I have ability, and so far as I shall be inspired by the Holy Spirit to dwell on this subject.

I want your prayers and faith that I may have the instruction of Almighty God and the gift of the Holy Ghost, so that I may set forth things that are true and which can be easily comprehended by you, and that the testimony may carry conviction to your hearts and minds of the truth of what I shall say. Pray that the Lord may strengthen my lungs, stay the winds, and let the prayers of the Saints to heaven appear, that they may enter into the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth, for the effectual prayers of the righteous avail much. There is strength here, and I verily believe that your prayers will be heard.
The King Follett Sermon - ensign

I can imagine the objections from 21st century Mormons:
Oh, that's not doctrine! The Lord ignored the prayers of all those people, or maybe Joseph Smith wasn't worthy enough.

"Some twenty thousand Saints were assembled."

 

[Jane_Doe]

(Dang it- got to run- will write more in a bit)

To understand what these quotes are saying takes a LOT of theological background.

The beginning point is that both you and I agree that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is a different person that the Father, but they are both ONE God together. There's only ONE God. Likewise the Holy Spirit is a different person than the Father & Son, and is likewise God. But there's still only ONE God. They are ONE.

A difference comes in when we talk about the *how* these multiple persons are ONE God. I'm guessing that you are an adherent of the Athanasian Creed. This document was written by a council of men 500 AD and states the Father, Son, and Spirit are ONE God through a shared substance.

I (and other LDS) am not adherent of the Creeds, and believe that theological Truth should comes from God via His prophets & apostles. We believe that the Father, Son, and Spirit are ONE God through unity. One verse that particularly radiates with me is John 17:21 "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me." (Rest of the chapter rocks too).

Am I making sense thus far?

 

[Rescued One]

Yeah, I'd agree with that. (but it generates a follow up question I would have for you, but I'll sit on that for now!) Interestingly Hebrews 2:11 states that Jesus isn't ashamed to call Christians his brothers and sisters - "So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters."

Some humans are of their father, the devil!

John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Matthew 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

1 John 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

 

[Rescued One]

Mormon scripture states that there are multiple gods:

Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 4
1 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.

Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25,
Doctrine and Covenants 132

Doctrine and Covenants 132
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

Some Mormons are not authorized to speak for their church.

 

[Rescued One]

Okay, here's my follow up. Doesn't the Mormon Church teach that God was once a man who followed a plan of salvation to become a god, and that he has a Father God, who was also once a man?

You are quite informed!

2 Our Father Advanced and
Progressed Until He Became God (p. 152-153)

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: “Our Father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a Father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father” (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).


President Joseph F. Smith taught: “I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions.... Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman” (Church News, 19 Sept. 1936, p. 2).

President Wilford Woodruff explained: “[God] has had his endowments a great many years ago. He has ascended to his thrones, principalities and powers in the eternities. We are his children.....We are here to fill a probation and receive an education” (Deseret News Weekly, 28 Sept. 1881, p. 546).

How does it help us to know that the basic elements of God’s life in a mortal world were the same as ours? President Brigham Young explained:

“He is our Father—the Father of our Spirits—and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are....

“...There never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through....

“It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has been a finite being” (Deseret News, 16 Nov. 1859, p. 290).

Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, pp. 152-153

One or two Mormons might complain that their priesthood manual quotes the Deseret News.

 

[Jane_Doe]

DW1980, I want to thank you for your honest and respectful manner on this thread. It is Christ-like.