LDS Why don't Mormon missionaries hand out the tripple combination?

[DW1980]

But you'd rather debate the NWT than talk about Christ...
Do you think you're going to reach a JW by trashing the NWT?
Or by talking about your beliefs in Christ?
(I'm sorry to be so stuck on this, it really really is blowing my mind)

Okay. This is maybe a harder conversation to have like this. I'm also noticing that you have twice ignored my question - every time I have been stopped by Mormon missionaries, THEY took the time to talk about Joseph Smith. Not Jesus.

I used the JWs as an example. You seem fixated on this. Maybe I'm not being clear. We agree that Jesus is the most important thing. Where we seem to have a sticking point is where we start with people.

It's got nothing to do with trashing someone's beliefs. It certainly is not about displacing Jesus! It is however about meeting people where they are at, ensuring that when we speak, that we understand each other. Sometimes that means doing some groundwork.

One final example. I know someone who came to Church who was abused as a child. So I have your 10 minutes. Do I spend that ignoring what they're going through to talk about Jesus? Do I ignore their questions about why them? Or do I listen? Even if it takes up the whole 10 minutes? Am I prepared to be the hands and feet of Christ to that person?

This person is now on a journey. We can now talk about Jesus and the Gospel. And do you know why? Because someone didn't shove "religion" at them - for the first time someone just listened.

I do not believe in a formula for when I meet someone. I do believe in meeting them where they are. And yes, it all comes back to Jesus, everything comes back to Jesus. How could it not? He's my Lord, my God and my Saviour.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I'm also noticing that you have twice ignored my question

Yes, and apologized for it. I'm really not understanding your priorities and it's causing something like... like a frozen computer in my brain.

- every time I have been stopped by Mormon missionaries, THEY took the time to talk about Joseph Smith. Not Jesus.

Actually did they talk about Joseph Smith seeing Christ and His visit? They also then handed you a Book of Mormon which purpose is to testify of Christ. It's all about pointing to Christ and talking about Him.

One final example. I know someone who came to Church who was abused as a child. So I have your 10 minutes. Do I spend that ignoring what they're going through to talk about Jesus? Do I ignore their questions about why them? Or do I listen? Even if it takes up the whole 10 minutes? Am I prepared to be the hands and feet of Christ to that person?

Speaking as a person who was abused as a child: Christ saved me from that misery and certain death. Yes, I talk about Christ and the impact He has had on my life.

I do not believe in a formula for when I meet someone. I do believe in meeting them where they are. And yes, it all comes back to Jesus, everything comes back to Jesus. How could it not? He's my Lord and Saviour.

Now to that I shout: "Amen!"

 

[TuxAme]

I'm sure they'd just rather have you learn about Joseph Smith and the foundations of their church rather than overwhelm possible converts with theology lessons. Everyone in America (where most LDS live) are at least vaguely aware of who Jesus is, but what does the average Joe know about Joseph Smith?

I haven't met any missionaries of theirs, though. I sometimes find pamphlets and such left at my door, but I've never spoken to them. How many here actually have? I'm curious if this is true or not.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I haven't met any missionaries of theirs, though. I sometimes find pamphlets and such left at my door, but I've never spoken to them.

Pamphlets left at the door? That seems strange. That's more of JW thing.

How many here actually have? I'm curious if this is true or not.

Last number I saw was 70,946 full-time missionaries (plus all the part-time folks), so quite a few

 

[DW1980]

Actually did they talk about Joseph Smith seeing Christ and His visit? They also then handed you a Book of Mormon which purpose is to testify of Christ. It's all about pointing to Christ and talking about Him.

Snip...

Speaking as a person who was abused as a child: Christ saved me from that misery and certain death. Yes, I talk about Christ and the impact He has had on my life.

The missionaries mentioned Jesus, but I couldn't say that they talked about him. It was geared round Joseph Smith and the Church, and yes the Book of Mormon. That was clearly the focus of the conversation. I'd say it's like how we have mentioned Jesus in every post, but that's not what we've been talking about.

I'm sorry to hear you were abused as a child, I'm so glad you were able to rebuild your life. It's not something I've had to deal with, but I know several people who have. I know from them how painful and difficult it is. Thank you for your bravery and openness - I think that it's when people like you are open that we start to see the scale of this issue.

 

[messianist]

I have a customer who is a Mormon, they believe that Joseph Smith had all the answers, they also believe that if your a good person and that doing good things, you will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

 

[dzheremi]

The missionaries mentioned Jesus, but I couldn't say that they talked about him. It was geared round Joseph Smith and the Church, and yes the Book of Mormon. That was clearly the focus of the conversation. I'd say it's like how we have mentioned Jesus in every post, but that's not what we've been talking about.

Think about it this way: Mormon missionaries work and live in what are mostly at least nominally Christian societies, so chances are people they are attempting to convert already know at least the basic outline of the story of Jesus and the claims that Christianity makes about Him, whether or not the potential inquirers themselves actually believe in Him. This fact, combined with the fact that Mormonism has tried very hard for the last few decades to shed its image as a non-Christian religion and be accepted as a type of Christianity by non-Mormons, disincentivizes missionaries (and Mormons on this messageboard) from getting into too much in-depth discussion on what they believe about Him, because once you do that you are likely to find various aspects of Mormon theology to be wildly at variance with Christianity. This would obviously hurt both Mormon missionary efforts and their goal of being accepted as a Christian religion.

Yes, they will absolutely affirm that He is their savior and lord and all this, but when you ask them what they mean by that, and compare it to traditional Christian beliefs, it becomes very clear that Mormonism is its own thing, not really a type of Christianity a la Protestantism, Catholicism, or Orthodoxy. They'd rather not get into that, so surface-level affirmations and this kind of "mention without talking about Him" that you've noticed are much more common, because they're much more comfortable for the Mormon.

 

[Deadworm]

On another thread, I have posted this story. I am a now retired UMC pastor. One day, the local Mormon bishop came to my office in tears. Our church had been attacked by other evangelicals for agreeing to send our bell choir to perform in the Mormon church across the street. The bishop apologized that we were falsely accused of such a performance, but I replied, "Well, if you really want our bell choir to perform in your church, I would gladly make this happen; and if other evangelicals want to attack us for this gesture, I would wear their criticism as a badge of honor. Christians need to learn to disagree agreeably." After this performance, the Mormons then explored the possibility of gaining admission to our ministerial association. Their request was initially rebuffed.

Then area churches were invited to a special Mormon testimony service on their Christian self-understanding. The various testimonials were virtually indistinguishable from evangelical Christianity on the miraculous power of faith and prayer, Christ's divinity and atoning death on the cross, the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith, and a high view of Scripture. We all realized that this program was based on selective doctrinal presentations to cater to evangelicals and Catholics. But it must be said that by evangelical standards their faith presentation was sufficiently orthodox to qualify them as truly saved Christians, regardless of what else they believe about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. The Mormons were ultimately accepted into membership in our regional ministerial association.

We are not saved by adherence to a detailed orthodox doctrinal statement. We are saved by grace through a life-changing relationship with Jesus Christ and through His atoning death on the cross.

 

[zelosravioli]

Only want to say the combo is commonly called 'the Quad' by Mormons, I am a former Mormon.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I have a customer who is a Mormon, they believe that Joseph Smith had all the answers, they also believe that if your a good person and that doing good things, you will inherit the kingdom of heaven.

Hi @messianist !

Just to clarify, LDS believe that good people do get good things in Heaven and have eternal happiness. Even better, people who accept and embrace Christ receive even greater happiness in Him.

 

[mmksparbud]

On another thread, I have posted this story. I am a now retired UMC pastor. One day, the local Mormon bishop came to my office in tears. Our church had been attacked by other evangelicals for agreeing to send our bell choir to perform in the Mormon church across the street. The bishop apologized that we were falsely accused of such a performance, but I replied, "Well, if you really want our bell choir to perform in your church, I would gladly make this happen; and if other evangelicals want to attack us for this gesture, I would wear their criticism as a badge of honor. Christians need to learn to disagree agreeably." After this performance, the Mormons then explored the possibility of gaining admission to our ministerial association. Their request was initially rebuffed.

Then area churches were invited to a special Mormon testimony service on their Christian self-understanding. The various testimonials were virtually indistinguishable from evangelical Christianity on the miraculous power of faith and prayer, Christ's divinity and atoning death on the cross, the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith, and a high view of Scripture. We all realized that this program was based on selective doctrinal presentations to cater to evangelicals and Catholics. But it must be said that by evangelical standards their faith presentation was sufficiently orthodox to qualify them as truly saved Christians, regardless of what else they believe about Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. The Mormons were ultimately accepted into membership in our regional ministerial association.

We are not saved by adherence to a detailed orthodox doctrinal statement. We are saved by grace through a life-changing relationship with Jesus Christ and through His atoning death on the cross.

Yes and no---there is no way that any of us can judge the heart of another--That is between God and them. God makes the final decision. And sounding mainline Christian is what they aspire to. Bottom line though--is their basic believe is that God was a man before He was God, therefore we will be Gods----I really doubt that God is favorable to that idea. If we had not fallen, we would never have been able to have children so they have a sacred ceremony more or less celebrating the fall (they may word that differently, but it is what it amounts to) We are actual, physical children of God and the heavenly mother therefore we existed before being born and must come down here to acquire a human body in order to learn to obey God. We always existed eternally with God as "inelegances." Jesus Christ is the only Son of God---that never sinned. We are all His children though--including Satan who is the brother to Jesus. Only those that are married in the temple and have a sealed eternal wife (wives) can enter into the 3rd heaven (exaltation) and be in the presence of God and attain godhood and have spirit children. If one of their prophets should say that God has decided to reinstate polygamy--then it will be reinstated. Baptism must be performed by a Mormon priest in order for it to be valid. (The same holds for marriage to be considered an eternal marriage.) They have baptism of the dead for those who did not have it. Their priests are the only priests who have the keys of heaven and hell and are the true priests after the order of Melchizedek. You can not be saved unless you believe in Joseph Smith and his writings. All non-Mormons are apostates, gentiles. They alone have the trut
Each of the believes have been verified with quotes from their writings. You can go over the other threads and find the quotes yourself. They desperately try to sound Christian and will say something is not doctrine, or have been taken out of context--never the less, it is what they are taught and what they believe and when the whole quote is given, it is very much in context.
Does this mean they are not saved???--No way on this God's earth would I ever say such a thing. However, I fear for my stepdaughter and her family for the character of God is quite different than our Christian concept of His character and if you do not know God, He will not know you. This is not a matter of differences in interpretation. It is a whole other gospel, but it can take a whole lot of digging before you find out the truth of their believes--they do not discuss these truths with Christians if they can avoid them and they tell new converts very, very slowly and methodically.
I do not hate Mormons--I do not like their teachings. The people I've known have been kind, generous. It is teachings that we oppose, not the people themselves.

 

[Jane_Doe]

I'm sorry to hear you were abused as a child, I'm so glad you were able to rebuild your life. It's not something I've had to deal with, but I know several people who have. I know from them how painful and difficult it is. Thank you for your bravery and openness - I think that it's when people like you are open that we start to see the scale of this issue.

Thank you for you kindness, DW1980. It means a lot.

For me, Christ is not just my Savior in that He saved me from my sins, but also my Savior in that He dragged my crying self out of that abyss. He wrapped me in His arms of love, told me how I am God's child, and truly honestly cared for. I love Him more than anything and devote every day of my life to Him.

 

[messianist]

Hi @messianist !

Just to clarify, LDS believe that good people do get good things in Heaven and have eternal happiness. Even better, people who accept and embrace Christ receive even greater happiness in Him.

Hi jane_doe

The Mormon I spoke to was very strong on that the way to heaven was to do good things he said the better person you are then you will go to heaven, that's not what the bible says.

every blessing

 

[Genesis Fishing]

Yes, and apologized for it. I'm really not understanding your priorities and it's causing something like... like a frozen computer in my brain.

Actually did they talk about Joseph Smith seeing Christ and His visit? They also then handed you a Book of Mormon which purpose is to testify of Christ. It's all about pointing to Christ and talking about Him.

Speaking as a person who was abused as a child: Christ saved me from that misery and certain death. Yes, I talk about Christ and the impact He has had on my life.

Now to that I shout: "Amen!"

 

[Genesis Fishing]

Yes! Thank you guys for being cordial and working through miscommunications! It’s frustrating when people can not have a decent debate and remain tender and compassionate! Kudos to y’all!

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hi jane_doe

The Mormon I spoke to was very strong on that the way to heaven was to do good things he said the better person you are then you will go to heaven, that's not what the bible says.

every blessing

LDS believe that a good person who doesn't accept Christ get a much much lesser degree of happiness a person who has accepted Christ.

 

[messianist]

LDS believe that a good person who doesn't accept Christ get a much much lesser degree of happiness a person who has accepted Christ.

This is not what the Mormon I have spent time with told me,

every blessing

 

[Jane_Doe]

This is not what the Mormon I have spent time with told me,

every blessing

I'm just trying to clarify.

LDS don't believe anyone is miserable in eternities- God is more merciful than that. But those that accept Him are WAY more happier than those that didn't.

 

[Rescued One]

If you read the other books first, you probably wouldn't read the Book of Mormon.

 

[Rescued One]

I'm sure they'd just rather have you learn about Joseph Smith and the foundations of their church rather than overwhelm possible converts with theology lessons. Everyone in America (where most LDS live) are at least vaguely aware of who Jesus is, but what does the average Joe know about Joseph Smith?

I haven't met any missionaries of theirs, though. I sometimes find pamphlets and such left at my door, but I've never spoken to them. How many here actually have? I'm curious if this is true or not.

It's Jehovah's Witnesses who leave pamphlets. Mormons want to meet you in person. You don't learn much about Joseph Smith from the Book of Mormon except that the Bible is missing "many plain and precious things."


Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 13
29 And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest—because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God—because of these things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them.

And the Mormon Church is the Church of the Lamb of God.