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Featured LDS Why don't Mormon missionaries hand out the tripple combination?

Discussion in 'Debate Other Religions & Faiths' started by DW1980, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. DW1980

    DW1980 Don Supporter

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    I've run into Mormon missionaries a few times, and I've talked with them and done some research. Which led me to my question.

    Most of the distinctive Mormon beliefs seem to come from the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price, rather than the Book of Mormon itself.

    So why not hand this out rather than the Book of Mormon? I asked two female missionaries and they said that if you had a testimony of the Book of Mormon then all the rest falls into place, Joseph Smith, the Church etc. But this feels a bit like, "buy into this and we will tell you what you're buying into later"... that strikes me as deceptive. Especially when later you'll be told about secret temple ceremonies, God having wives, etc.

    Or have I missed something?
     
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  2. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

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    I would guess that it is because you haven't gone through mormon baptism, been accepted into the church and aren't progressing into the mormon priesthood.
    In short because you aren't a mormon.
     
  3. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Even after becoming a Mormon, I wasn't taught much from those books. And when I asked why temple marriage is essential to gaining eternal life about seven or eight years later, I got the brush off. Perhaps it was necessary to make an appointment with the bishop in order to get an answer.
    Smiley_Shrug.jpg

    Being a Mormon doesn't make you one of the privileged ones.
     
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  4. dzheremi

    dzheremi Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian

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    I asked this question in a different thread some time ago and as I recall the answer I got was something like they don't give out the other books at the same time as the BOM because the other books require some familiarity with Mormonism that the investigator is supposed to have as a result of accepting the BOM and the Mormon faith. I didn't really understand it then (still don't), but I think the idea of "milk before meat" might apply here, in the sense that if you're not going to believe in the BOM as you're supposed to in order to be a Mormon, then what will these other books that require a deeper understanding of their faith do for you?

    Contrast the above, just for fun, with the conversion process of entering a Christian church like the Roman Catholic Church, where I know for a fact -- because I went through this myself -- that they absolutely will give you a Roman Catholic catechism in addition to the RCC's translation of the Bible (can't remember the name of it right now, but I don't mean the Latin Vulgate of St. Jerome; the New American...something or other), because in that case they take it as a given that the two are supposed to go together. Like "Here, we are Christians so here is the Bible, and we are Roman Catholics in particular, so here is the book that we filled with cross-references to the Bible so that you can tell where our doctrines come from/how we teach that they relate to the scriptures that we read in our services every Sunday." Seems logical to me, 'milk' or 'meat' notwithstanding.

    Even away from that, in the Coptic Orthodox Church (which doesn't have an 'official' catechism as such, because catechesis in the modern Christian East is generally done on a personal, informal basis by showing up to liturgies, vespers, etc. and experiencing those, and talking with the priests and people, bishops, monks, etc.), I have personally witnessed inquirers into my Church ask to take home a Coptic prayer book (it's a lot easier to digest at home than while also trying to follow along with an unfamiliar liturgy in real time, I suppose), and received that and a blessing prayer with the priest before going home. :)

    I sometimes wonder if the Mormon missionaries would similarly gift me one of their hymnals, if I asked for it. I figure if they're going to ask me to pray over what they bring as the restored word of God, I ought to be able to dig a little deeper into other collections reflecting their theology, right? I would think they would welcome that, but I don't know. I've had mixed reactions in the past when I asked about the nuts and bolts of Mormon theology as reflected in such sources.
     
  5. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    In short: the Book of Mormon is more important. The Book of Mormon's mission is to testify of Christ, which is the most important thing.

    Do you agree that testifying of Christ is the most important thing?

    (Also, nowadays in the 1st world countries most folks actually read the app version, which includes the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C, and Pearl of Great Price. If you'd like to have it for yourself, it's free here Gospel Library, on iTunes, etc).
     
  6. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    Haha, nope. Download it for yourself on the link I provided above, if you'd like it.
     
  7. Tallguy88

    Tallguy88 We shall see the King when he comes! Supporter

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    When I was chatting with the missionaries, I asked them if I could have a copy of the other books. They told me they would lend me them if I would give them back if I didn't become Mormon. Apparently, they had to borrow them from the church, rather than having the mass produced copies of the BoM they give out. I did give it back when I decided against Mormonism but they let me keep my BoM.
     
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  8. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    LDS focus is on the Book of Mormon (cause it is to testify of Christ), so those are mass-econmical-printed for giveaways (and Bibles as well). The D&C and PofGP aren't mass printed like that, so you were probably borrowing some one else's personal copy. If you'd like a copy of your own, you can download it for free here: Gospel Library
     
  9. DW1980

    DW1980 Don Supporter

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    I wouldn't agree, if you're asking people to join your church, surely you should be upfront about what you believe?

    It's all well and good to say you testify of Christ, but is it the same Christ? Is it the same God?
     
  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Bingo!---No--it isn't!
     
  11. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I heard something interesting and would like to know for sure if this is accurate. Do the Mormons believe that no one but them have the authority to cast out demons? What is their believe about demons.
    I am not trying to derail--or go off topic--can you give me some of their literature to check out, I am having a hard time finding it.
     
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  12. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    You DON'T agree that talking about Christ is the first and most important thing?
    Call me dumbfounded.

    Well If all you had was 10 minutes to talk with someone, what do you think is more important than Christ?

    (I'll address rest of your post in a moment, I'm really dumbfounded and can't mentally move past this declaration of yours)
     
  13. DW1980

    DW1980 Don Supporter

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    I think you've missed my point, or I wasn't clear.

    If you're talking about a different christ, then no, taking about him is not the most important thing. In that situation defining who Jesus is would come first - otherwise we are using the same words for totally different concepts.

    Does that make more sense?
     
  14. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    Not remotely.

    I'm going to talk first and foremost about Christ, because He's the most important thing/person/belief. It seems like you consider something else more important and rather talk about that-- which doesn't make sense to me at all coming from believer in Him.
     
  15. DW1980

    DW1980 Don Supporter

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    I do absolutely agree that Jesus is the most important thing/person/belief. But that's exactly why we need to be clear what we mean.

    Let me provide an example. A Muslim would talk about Jesus too. As would a Jehovahs Witness. But to a Muslim, Jesus is a prophet. To a JW he's the archangel Michael. To me he is God, the second person of the Trinity.

    So before we can talk about what Jesus has done, we need to define who Jesus is.

    Does that help?
     
  16. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    So... to be clear: you agree that Christ is the most important topic, and if you only have 10 minutes to talk to someone He's the most important and logical topic to discuss.

    Correct?
     
  17. DW1980

    DW1980 Don Supporter

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    In most cases yes. But let's follow my JW example. (I've spent quite a lot of time talking to them and researching their beliefs).

    I could spend that 10 minutes talking about Jesus. But here would be the problem: their New World Translation is viewed as superior to my NIV. Where the two disagree, in their minds the NWT wins hands down. Why?

    Because for a JW, the real authority is the Watchtower, which has them so well indoctrinated that almost anything I say will be dismissed. When I raise a Scripture, the Watchtower has already told them what it means. So they are blinded by the Watchtower.

    So, would I be better discussing the Watchtower itself with them? Highlighting false prophecy, or changing the Bible to match their beliefs? Probably. Because only by breaking down THAT barrier would I be able to present Jesus. The real Jesus, not Michael.

    On the other hand, a random person on the street probably knows that Christians believe in the Trinity, they may have a vague belief in God. To that person, yes, I could spend the 10 minutes talking about Jesus.

    On this note, i should point out, I have been stopped by Mormon missionaries several times in my life. Each time they did NOT take 10 minutes to tell me about Jesus. Each time they did ask me how I knew my Church was true, and to talk about Joseph Smith.
     
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  18. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    So... you consider debating the NWT to be more important than talking about Christ??? Are you not a disciple of Christ?
     
  19. DW1980

    DW1980 Don Supporter

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    Of course I am! But unless we are on the same page, we are using the same words for very different things. And that does not bring clarity, but confusion.

    If Christ is so central, why do your own missionaries insist on starting with Joseph Smith rather than Jesus?
     
  20. Jane_Doe

    Jane_Doe Well-Known Member

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    But you'd rather debate the NWT than talk about Christ...
    Do you think you're going to reach a JW by trashing the NWT?
    Or by talking about your beliefs in Christ?
    (I'm sorry to be so stuck on this, it's really really blowing my mind)
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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