Why don't mainstream Christians come out against Young Earth Creationist

[arunma]

The thing that confuses me is why you're bothered by this:

I am sorry for being thick I am just really not getting the difference. I mean if Christians believe in absolute truth then why is it ok to spread untruths?

What does it matter to you? Why should you as an atheist think that there is anything wrong with spreading lies or untruths?

If I may weigh in on this...

Actually, I think that it's rather dangerous to believe that atheists are particularly immoral or unethical people. Indeed, there are some atheists (and Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc.) who on the surface are more moral than Christians.

We as Christians are masters of sin, which is precisely why we need Jesus Christ. When we say that atheists are immoral, we are giving them the incorrect idea that if they clean up their acts, stop binge drinking, having sex with their girlfriends, doing drugs, and stealing, then they may somehow deliver their souls and save themselves. But this is incorrect. A chaste, philanthropic, sober atheist (or Jew, Muslim, Hindu) will burn for all eternity in hell, while a sinning Christian who repents and tries with desperation to escape from his transgression will be forgiven by God. Christianity is not about being a good person. It is about the person and work of Jesus Christ, about the revelation of God's righteousness through the Gospel and the cross, and about the exaltation of God's name by purchasing a people for himself from every tribe and language with his Son's blood. Whoever believes in Christ will be saved from the wrath of God. Whoever does not believe in Christ will be forever tormented by God in the fire of hell. The most merciful deeds, the most pious religious acts, and the greatest of all moral and ethical actions, are as bloody menstrual rags (Isaiah 64:6) and piles of excrement (Philippians 3:8) before the Lord. Turning an immoral atheist into a moral atheist will only add more fuel to the fire of hell. No, on the contrary I recognize that quite a few atheists are far better people than myself. However, such piety is of no value before the Lord Jesus.

 

[Taloraan4]

Perhaps you should actually read what I was saying and implying before jumping to rash and unsupported conclusions, eh?

The other user was raving on about how creationists are liars and so on, blah blah blah usual unsupported rhetoric, implying that it's really bad and so on, but the point that I was intending on making if that user responded to was the fact that he has no basis on which to judge such actions - if true - on as being 'bad'. The line of reasoning from then on is obvious.

I never said that atheists are lacking morality nor did I imply it. Similarly, I never implied that I had any more or less moral fibre than the average atheist. The implication was that they have no basis for judging actions and so on. I think the other user, if he read the post, realised where I was heading and promptly didn't respond, which was the smart thing for an atheist to do. Either that or he simply didn't read it or didn't want to respond. In either case it makes little difference to me.

 

[artybloke]

First, young Earth creationists are mainstream Christians.

No they're not. They are a heretical sect, and they spread their bad theology through lies, distortion and a great deal of cognitive dissonance. That do you, Mathew?

 

[artybloke]

Why should you as an atheist think that there is anything wrong with spreading lies or untruths?

Because atheists are no more no less moral than you are. And in any case, if the Gospel is spread by lies and distortion, then what price its supposed truth value?

The fact is that there is no evidence for young earth creationism, and those who believe it are either decieving themselves and others or seriously deluded. It's also bad theology.

 

[Catherineanne]

We as Christians are masters of sin, which is precisely why we need Jesus Christ.

Speak for yourself.

If being a master of sin were a qualification, I doubt if I would get very far. Chance would be a fine thing!

 

[Catherineanne]

I mean even the Vatican has come out and said that evolution and the bible go just fine together and I was to say the last 3 Popes were pro-evolution.

You ask why mainstream Christians do not come out against YE Creationists, and then you say that the Vatican has come out with this very thing.

How much more mainstream do you want, exactly?

 

[Catherineanne]

First, young Earth creationists are mainstream Christians.

Very interesting. What planet is that on, exactly?

To be consistent, YECs would also need to believe in a flat earth, contained within an actual dome of heaven, and with four corners. All of which is Biblical.

Good luck to anyone trying to believe all of that, while remaining mainstream.

 

[Catherineanne]

No, that is not bearing false witness. Bearing false witness is stating something that is untrue with the intent to decieve.

I do not remember the ten commandments saying this. They certainly say 'thou shalt not bear false witness', but I don't remember the bit about unless you pretend you are telling the truth.

A lie is a lie, whether you admit it or not. And if there is any doubt at all, which there is on this issue, closing one's mind to evidence contrary to one's position is no defence for promulgating mischievous and harmful untruths.

 

[PastorJim]

I do not remember the ten commandments saying this.

The ten commandments don't say this. They only tell us what the commandments are. They don't go into detail about what constitutes a violation of those commandments.

They certainly say 'thou shalt not bear false witness', but I don't remember the bit about unless you pretend you are telling the truth.

Huh? I don't even know what you're talking about. If you're lying, but pretending to tell the truth, then it's still a lie because lying is not so much about factual accuracy, as it is about the intent of the statement.

A lie is a lie, whether you admit it or not.

I agree. However, a lie is an untrue statement made with the attempt to decieve.

For instance, if my wife goes to the hairdresser and I tell somebody she went grocery shopping, that's not a lie unless I tell them that in order to mislead them into believing that she went somewhere else.

If I believe that she did go grocery shopping and told somebody that in good faith, then that's not a lie. That's just being mistaken about where she went.

Sometimes people have different opinions. Sometimes people come to different conclusions. Sometimes, people just get their facts wrong. That doesn't make those things lies.

 

[PastorJim]

Very interesting. What planet is that on, exactly?

On the same planet where somebody who constantly mocks the word of God is allowed to have a Christian icon on an allegedly Christian message board.

To be consistent, YECs would also need to believe in a flat earth, contained within an actual dome of heaven, and with four corners. All of which is Biblical. [/quote]

First of all, the Bible does say that the Earth is spherical, not flat. Isaiah 40:22 describes the shape of the Earth using the word chuwg, which refers to a sphere, like a ball, not a flat disc, like a record album.

Second, you're right. The Bible does describe the sky as a dome and the Earth as having four corners.

However, what you fail to mention is that this is poetic language, not literal.

Even today, people still say "the four corners of the Earth".

Even today, people still recognize that the sky resembles a dome. Ever been to a planetarium? What shape is the ceiling there? It's a dome in order to accurately reflect the position of the stars.

 

[PastorJim]

No they're not. They are a heretical sect

And how did you come to that conclusion?

 

[artybloke]

By listening to the appalling lies and distortions they spread.

They're also heretical because they try to fit reality to their distorted interpretation of scripture, not unlike the Gnostics and the Arians did in the early church.

 

[Matthewj1985]

The thing that confuses me is why you're bothered by this:

I am sorry for being thick I am just really not getting the difference. I mean if Christians believe in absolute truth then why is it ok to spread untruths?

What does it matter to you? Why should you as an atheist think that there is anything wrong with spreading lies or untruths?

Because I am tired of the tidal wave of stupid that is invading our mainstream American culture.

 

[seeker777]

Most of my fellow scientists, on the other hand, are either atheists or theistic non-Christians, and will suffer the eternal punishment for sin. ?

How do you know this for certain and how can you prove that your correct and it's not the Muslims who have it right?

For a scientist, how do you reconcile an absolute belief with zero proof and how do you reconcile the fact that the Bible with all it's contradictions and absurdities was commissioned by the creator of the Universe?

I highly doubt that you're a scientist in possession of a PHD.

 

[seashale76]

This entire thread has become one big violation of the rules on this particular board. It should either be moved or closed.

 

[newbeliever02072005]

MOD HAT ON


Thread closed for review


MOD HAT OFF