Why don't I see love from many American Christians?

brinny

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brinny said:
Jesus the Christ also overturned tables and took a whip He formed Himself, to the money changers in the Temple, to drive them out.
It was not the foundation of His efforts.
it was a demonstration of His holy wrath.
 
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brinny

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First off, I didn't create the 'good' Jesus and the 'bad' Jesus. That was just a response to rjs330's 'nice' Jesus and 'hard hitting' Jesus.

Next, while it -is- possible that Jesus had a split personality I think people need to view the teachings of Jesus in the broad context of what His primary teaching was. And that requires people to understand His primary teaching of raising one's spirituality through the practice of Divine Love and self-sacrificial service to others.

Within that context, one can see that Jesus was not 'punishing' those cities because they rejected the miracles. Rather He was simply mourning their rejection of His message and their loss of spiritual advancement. After all, it is our own spiritual advancement which draws us closer to the Divine Love we know as God.

Finally, I respectfully reject your assertion that 'There is nobody who prefers the tough sayings'. The reality is there is an entire segment of Christianity which views those 'tough sayings' as authority for them to brow beat others and threaten others with damnation and hell-fire. The idea of each individual using Jesus' teachings to improve themselves through Divine Love for others and the practice of service to others even at the lost of their own benefit is totally lost on these people.

Their vision of a revengeful God who throws living humans into a Lake of Fire is all consuming. They bask in the knowledge of their own superiority without ever understanding Jesus' teaching that those who are first in this life will be last in the next life.

In Mark 9:33-35 is this teaching from Jesus:

33 They came to Capernaum. When he was in the house, he asked them, “What were you arguing about on the road?” 34 But they kept quiet because on the way they had argued about who was the greatest.

35 Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, “Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all.”

Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God was/is sinless and holy. There is no such thing as a good Jesus and a bad Jesus nor a Jesus with a split personality. IN addition He was not "created". He IS Creator. He IS God. What He demonstrated was "holy wrath". He is the Destroyer of evil. He pronounces curses, such as when He pronounced a curse on the fig tree.
 
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zephcom

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So if you believe the quotes of Jesus are correct, do you believe in his resurrection, or that he was the son of God? Just wondering.

If so, what do you make of the fact that Jesus frequently referred to the Old Testament as if it was God's word/law?
 
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brinny

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Sabertooth said:
If God's people fail to convey that fact, the lost will derive a false sense of security in their fallen state. (Remember, Noah invited everyone to join him on the ark, but there were no takers, and he didn't force them aboard.)
Would you mind telling us where you derive this information from? This seems to be missing form my bible.

The entire time that Noah was building the ark, he was preaching. Noah was mocked and ridiculed as he preached and continued building the ark, which took at least a number of years.

During the entire time of Noah preaching and building the ark, the door of grace was open. That door of grace was shut tight with a finality by God Himself after Noah and his family got on board the ark.

Every one who heard Noah's preaching and saw Noah building the ark, knew of God's offer of grace, and the open door of grace that the ark represented, and chose to continue mocking Noah and to spurn God's grace.
 
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brinny

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brinny

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Old Testament. How many countries did Jesus order wiped out? How many people did he kill?



This is exactly the kind of mindset that made me write the thread. How can you show such utter contempt and indifference for the poor yet claim to follow the teachings of a man who preached constantly about cherishing and protecting the poorest and weakest!?



What a sadly negative person you show yourself to be in this post.

How many countries are going to be destroyed at the judgement? The entire world will roll up like a scroll, at the wrath of God. At that time, the door of grace will have been closed and as in the days of Noah, when God closed that door of the ark, the door of grace will be closed.

That is why NOW is the day of salvation, as it is written.
 
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brinny

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I can’t understand the OP. Love clearly abounds when you look between all the wrath and the destruction of the world.

Are you referring to this?:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." ~John 3:16
 
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zephcom

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So if you believe the quotes of Jesus are correct, do you believe in his resurrection, or that he was the son of God? Just wondering.

If so, what do you make of the fact that Jesus frequently referred to the Old Testament as if it was God's word/law?

It is probably a small thing to quibble over but what I said was I believe the direct quotes of Jesus are an accurate depictions of His teachings. I would hesitate to characterize them as 'correct'. I appreciate the time periods which exist between the period Jesus taught on the earth and the Gospels were penned as well as the fact no one was recording any of His teachings. The quotes are all the result of memory and oral teaching.

With that said, it is worth noting that story of His resurrection is contained in the parts of the New Testament which were clearly not part of Jesus' teachings. That makes it much more difficult to get a grasp on what actually happened. Clearly SOMETHING happened which resulted in the creation of a major religion. For me...and I appreciate that isn't the case with everyone...it isn't all that important to define whether He was resurrected or not. And, quite frankly, there isn't enough evidence to make any kind of determination on the issue.

Next, Jesus said He was the Son of God....more than once. The meaning of the phrase does not require there be an actual -family- relationship. I appreciate that the modern religious concept dictates that be the case, but in Jesus' time it could mean just a special relationship with God without any family relationship. What -Jesus- meant when He said it is more important than what today's religion claims it means.

Finally, what Jesus clearly appeared to understand the Law as defined by the Jews as being something that God was a part of. But there is an often overlooked passage in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount in which Jesus makes a direct reference to that Law. It is found in Matthew 5:17-20. I won't quote it here since this is already a long post.

But note that Jesus says that He is not here to destroy or abolish the Law but rather to fulfill or complete it. The Law is a contract between God and the Jews. By completing or fulfilling that contract, He did what we all do when we fulfill or complete our mortgages. We no longer have an obligation to them. This is important for Jews because ONLY Jews had an obligation under the Law.

More importantly, in Matthew 22 Jesus reveals His two Great Commandments. Assuming Jesus had the authority to fulfill the OT Law He would have the authority to create something new to move forward in time. We all know the two Great Commandments. Immediately after announcing them, He said this:

"40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

This is profound in that EVERYTHING the Jewish religion required of people Jesus' summed up with two commandments. This is where I get the concept that Jesus' teachings can be understood to have raised the level of spirituality for humans to strive for.

Jesus fulfilled the OT contract with God and presented a new contract which assumed that humans were now able to achieve a much higher level of spirituality in which they no longer needed 'laws' to comply with. Rather they were now able to decide on their own about how to bring their lives into conformity with God's wishes.

Jesus taught what 'Divine Love' is like. He demonstrated using that love in a self-sacrificing manner. And then He said we were capable of living that life without the need for a check list of laws to control us.

THIS, I believe, is the true genius of Jesus. He brings us closer to God because we grow in our spirituality by taking on more responsibility for our own lives.

The down side to this is this new level of spirituality doesn't require a religion to 'control' people. And as early as the First Century, the second and third generations of followers regressed back to requiring 'laws' to control people instead teaching them how to control themselves.

Things have continued to regress since then.
 
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Kentonio

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How many countries are going to be destroyed at the judgement? The entire world will roll up like a scroll, at the wrath of God. At that time, the door of grace will have been closed and as in the days of Noah, when God closed that door of the ark, the door of grace will be closed.

That is why NOW is the day of salvation, as it is written.

You know something Brinny, you're actually a great example of what I had in mind when I wrote the op. Despite me and you disagreeing pretty much about everything politically, you've always been lovely in your interactions with me, including welcoming me to the forum when I arrived. We don't share a religion, or political ideas or probably much of anything, yet you seem like a kind and sweet person and you clearly hold your religious beliefs very dear.

That's basically exactly what I'm talking about. Being a nice, decent person with those around you regardless of whether they agree with you or not.
 
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Kelvin Owens

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Because there are wheat and tares among us. Matthew 13 24-30. Many Americans have a form of godliness but deny the power thereof. 2 Timothy 3:5. Why do they deny the power? They are comfortable with their lives and think they do not have to answer to no one including God. Basking in their wealth, power, and money, they have the counterfeit appearance of holiness but live with the fear of God on the inside. Also, they know that if they really seek God, they will be convicted of their sins. The light will shine on their darkness. You shall know them by their fruit. Galatians 5:22 Either your sowing into the Spirit or sewing into the flesh. Flesh is temporal (I need a fix now i.e. money, sex, drugs,) Spirit is eternal (everlasting life). American society has continued to deteriorate over the last 40 years to the present state on where it is at. Most Americans are trying to serve two masters. It clearly states in the Bible that you cannot serve money (wealth, power) and God. Matthew 6:24. American society for the most part has lost its way. Abandoning ethics and morals for self gratification. Problem with that is it only works for a season. Hebrews 11:25 That is why we are here to show people the correct path and the way to go. My people suffer for a lack of knowledge. Hosea 4:6 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. Proverbs 1:7 God is love and he loves us unconditionally. There is nothing fake about it. He is the Prince of peace. In the presence of the Lord their is fullness of joy. In Jesus Name Amen
 
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