Why don't I see love from many American Christians?

Kentonio

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If this is considered an offensive question, then please delete, but I keep being confused by the version of Christianity I see from many conservative Americans. Growing up in the UK, my experience of Christians was of loving, endlessly forgiving and gentle people who always seemed to be striving to achieve their own self-admittedly flawed version of the the message Jesus gave them. They didn't judge, they always forgave, and they were just basically better people than most of us. I couldn't be a Christian because I don't believe in god, but I always had huge respect for these gentle, meek people who embodied something I instinctively knew was beautiful. The level of commitment and sacrifice to something they felt was greater than them was truly awe inspiring, despite me not believing.

Then I see so many American 'evangelicals' or conservative Christians who seem to spent their lives judging others, attacking their perceived enemies and embodying a message that seems to revolve around a love of wealth, power and hostility towards those who are weak and needy. I don't get it. I thought the whole message of Jesus was that to embrace the weakest and most vulnerable was the closest path to god?

I've read the bible and it doesn't seem like a complex message. Turn the other cheek, embrace those in need and don't hold yourself above anyone, especially the most humble. Yet I see people quoting random passages and twisting them to somehow say its ok to support violence or war, aspire to prosperity and judge others for their sins rather than leave it to god. It confuses me.

Am I missing something? Is Jesus not a messenger of peace and humility and an advocate for the poor and needy? How did the message of a man who bathed lepers and said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" end up being used to advocate for wealth creation and for pastors to collect money to buy private jets while the poorest in society go homeless and hungry, or die from lack of healthcare?

How did the message of a man who said "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them" somehow end up being used to support gun ownership, a strong military and the use of violence against others?

Seriously, can someone explain this stuff to me please, because it leaves me dazed and confused.
 

brinny

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If this is considered an offensive question, then please delete, but I keep being confused by the version of Christianity I see from many conservative Americans. Growing up in the UK, my experience of Christians was of loving, endlessly forgiving and gentle people who always seemed to be striving to achieve their own self-admittedly flawed version of the the message Jesus gave them. They didn't judge, they always forgave, and they were just basically better people than most of us. I couldn't be a Christian because I don't believe in god, but I always had huge respect for these gentle, meek people who embodied something I instinctively knew was beautiful. The level of commitment and sacrifice to something they felt was greater than them was truly awe inspiring, despite me not believing.

Then I see so many American 'evangelicals' or conservative Christians who seem to spent their lives judging others, attacking their perceived enemies and embodying a message that seems to revolve around a love of wealth, power and hostility towards those who are weak and needy. I don't get it. I thought the whole message of Jesus was that to embrace the weakest and most vulnerable was the closest path to god?

I've read the bible and it doesn't seem like a complex message. Turn the other cheek, embrace those in need and don't hold yourself above anyone, especially the most humble. Yet I see people quoting random passages and twisting them to somehow say its ok to support violence or war, aspire to prosperity and judge others for their sins rather than leave it to god. It confuses me.

Am I missing something? Is Jesus not a messenger of peace and humility and an advocate for the poor and needy? How did the message of a man who bathed lepers and said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" end up being used to advocate for wealth creation and for pastors to collect money to buy private jets while the poorest in society go homeless and hungry, or die from lack of healthcare?

How did the message of a man who said "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them" somehow end up being used to support gun ownership, a strong military and the use of violence against others?

Seriously, can someone explain this stuff to me please, because it leaves me dazed and confused.

Jesus the Christ also overturned tables and took a whip He formed Himself, to the money changers in the Temple, to drive them out.

Are you familiar with this account of what He did, and why?

iu
 
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dreadnought

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If this is considered an offensive question, then please delete, but I keep being confused by the version of Christianity I see from many conservative Americans. Growing up in the UK, my experience of Christians was of loving, endlessly forgiving and gentle people who always seemed to be striving to achieve their own self-admittedly flawed version of the the message Jesus gave them. They didn't judge, they always forgave, and they were just basically better people than most of us. I couldn't be a Christian because I don't believe in god, but I always had huge respect for these gentle, meek people who embodied something I instinctively knew was beautiful. The level of commitment and sacrifice to something they felt was greater than them was truly awe inspiring, despite me not believing.

Then I see so many American 'evangelicals' or conservative Christians who seem to spent their lives judging others, attacking their perceived enemies and embodying a message that seems to revolve around a love of wealth, power and hostility towards those who are weak and needy. I don't get it. I thought the whole message of Jesus was that to embrace the weakest and most vulnerable was the closest path to god?

I've read the bible and it doesn't seem like a complex message. Turn the other cheek, embrace those in need and don't hold yourself above anyone, especially the most humble. Yet I see people quoting random passages and twisting them to somehow say its ok to support violence or war, aspire to prosperity and judge others for their sins rather than leave it to god. It confuses me.

Am I missing something? Is Jesus not a messenger of peace and humility and an advocate for the poor and needy? How did the message of a man who bathed lepers and said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" end up being used to advocate for wealth creation and for pastors to collect money to buy private jets while the poorest in society go homeless and hungry, or die from lack of healthcare?

How did the message of a man who said "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them" somehow end up being used to support gun ownership, a strong military and the use of violence against others?

Seriously, can someone explain this stuff to me please, because it leaves me dazed and confused.
Some Christians sin, and then learn that this sin is destroying their lives. They repent of their sin and encourage others to do the same. Some then accuse them of being judgmental.
 
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Neogaia777

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If this is considered an offensive question, then please delete, but I keep being confused by the version of Christianity I see from many conservative Americans. Growing up in the UK, my experience of Christians was of loving, endlessly forgiving and gentle people who always seemed to be striving to achieve their own self-admittedly flawed version of the the message Jesus gave them. They didn't judge, they always forgave, and they were just basically better people than most of us. I couldn't be a Christian because I don't believe in god, but I always had huge respect for these gentle, meek people who embodied something I instinctively knew was beautiful. The level of commitment and sacrifice to something they felt was greater than them was truly awe inspiring, despite me not believing.

Then I see so many American 'evangelicals' or conservative Christians who seem to spent their lives judging others, attacking their perceived enemies and embodying a message that seems to revolve around a love of wealth, power and hostility towards those who are weak and needy. I don't get it. I thought the whole message of Jesus was that to embrace the weakest and most vulnerable was the closest path to god?

I've read the bible and it doesn't seem like a complex message. Turn the other cheek, embrace those in need and don't hold yourself above anyone, especially the most humble. Yet I see people quoting random passages and twisting them to somehow say its ok to support violence or war, aspire to prosperity and judge others for their sins rather than leave it to god. It confuses me.

Am I missing something? Is Jesus not a messenger of peace and humility and an advocate for the poor and needy? How did the message of a man who bathed lepers and said "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" end up being used to advocate for wealth creation and for pastors to collect money to buy private jets while the poorest in society go homeless and hungry, or die from lack of healthcare?

How did the message of a man who said "But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back. And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them" somehow end up being used to support gun ownership, a strong military and the use of violence against others?

Seriously, can someone explain this stuff to me please, because it leaves me dazed and confused.
Many of them think it is the way to "toughen people up", From the pulpit or church, I mean, but, I don't agree...

God Bless!
 
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Kentonio

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Jesus the Christ also overturned tables and took a whip He formed Himself, to the money changers in the Temple, to drive them out.

Are you familiar with this account of what He did, and why?

iu

Of course, but surely the lesson there is that he was god. He reserved the right to pass judgement and redefine the law. Wasn’t he quite specific that judgement was for God alone, not for man?
 
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brinny

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Of course, but surely the lesson there is that he was god. He reserved the right to pass judgement and redefine the law. Wasn’t he quite specific that judgement was for God alone, not for man?

No. What He demonstrated is a righteous anger/wrath. That is because He is holy. What His followers demonstrate is "discernment" and an unction to speak on and discern what is pleasing to God, and what isn't, including when God is dishonored and mis-spoken about.

It is written all in His Word, what pleases God and what doesn't.

This verse also comes to mind about the living God, and that facing the living God, without Jesus' righteousness is a "fearful" thing. That is because, bottom line, God is "holy":

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~Hebrews 10:31
 
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Neogaia777

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Of course, but surely the lesson there is that he was god. He reserved the right to pass judgement and redefine the law. Wasn’t he quite specific that judgement was for God alone, not for man?
I thought she meant, when he returns...?

God Bless!
 
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Kentonio

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No. What He demonstrated is a righteous anger/wrath. That is because He is holy. What His followers demonstrate is "discernment" and an unction to speak on and discern what is pleasing to God, and what isn't, including when God is dishonored and mis-spoken about.

It is written all in His Word, what pleases God and what doesn't.

This verse also comes to mind about the living God, and that facing the living God, without Jesus' righteousness is a "fearful" thing. That is because, bottom line, God is "holy":

"It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." ~Hebrews 10:31

How can you judge what is or isn’t pleasing to god?

Wasn’t another key message: “Judge not, that ye be not judged.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?”

Perhaps I’ve just misunderstood, but to me that was a pretty clear message that it isn’t the place of humans to judge the supposed wrongdoings of others. That rather each person should just try and life their own lives to the best of their understanding of God’s will, and leave the decision of whether others have fallen short to God’s own judgement. To try and guide others to the best of your own understanding but not try and stand as judge and jury in God’s court.
 
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Radagast

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I thought the whole message of Jesus was that to embrace the weakest and most vulnerable was the closest path to god?

No, that's not the Christian message.
 
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Am I missing something? Is Jesus not a messenger of peace and humility and an advocate for the poor and needy?
There are two contrasting themes in the Bible: imminent Judgment [Holiness] & available Amnesty [Grace].

If God's people clearly declare the fact of imminent Judgment but not God's terms for Amnesty (or you just won't hear them), you are left with a hopeless message of doom.

If God's people fail to convey that fact, the lost will derive a false sense of security in their fallen state.

God's love (at least, at first glance) is a tough love. But that sense dissipates some after you get to know Him better.
 
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Kentonio

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No, that's not the Christian message.

Wasn’t that the point of..

“Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest.”
 
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Kentonio

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There are two contrasting themes in the Bible: imminent Judgment [Holiness] & available Amnesty [Grace].

If God's people clearly declare the fact of imminent Judgment but not God's terms for Amnesty (or you just won't hear them), you are left with a hopeless message of doom.

If God's people fail to convey that fact, the lost will derive a false sense of security in their fallen state. (Remember, Noah invited everyone to join him on the ark, but there were no takers.)

God's love (at least, at first glance) is a tough love. But that sense dissipates some after you get to know Him better.

I think I don’t understand the idea of it being a tough love. What about it is supposed to be so hard? Obviously setting aside things like pride and desire for wealth are challenging, but the return offer is joy for all people and happiness. I guess I never really got a sense of doom from Christians growing up. Obviously the Old Testament reeks of doom and horror, but the Christians growing up never embraced the Old Testament as a guide, it was always the New Testament that was their guide.

I guess I never got a sense of ‘imminent’ judgement. They never said anything along the lines of “repent now or face suffering” it was always more of a “God’s path is beautiful, try and follow it and it’ll lead you to happiness” kind of approach.
 
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Neogaia777

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I think I don’t understand the idea of it being a tough love. What about it is supposed to be so hard? Obviously setting aside things like pride and desire for wealth are challenging, but the return offer is joy for all people and happiness. I guess I never really got a sense of doom from Christians growing up. Obviously the Old Testament reeks of doom and horror, but the Christians growing up never embraced the Old Testament as a guide, it was always the New Testament that was their guide.

I guess I never got a sense of ‘imminent’ judgement. They never said anything along the lines of “repent now or face suffering” it was always more of a “God’s path is beautiful, try and follow it and it’ll lead you to happiness” kind of approach.
Judgment is simply to get you to agree with and be in line with God and his will, and that can be hard or tough, to get you to accept his judgement... Christians experience Judgement, but not continually, and not the consequences that should come of that judgement, do not come, but, being judged already, are passed over from judgement... Immune to the second death, will live forever... Anyway...

But, Christians, not experiencing the consequence of that Judgement, get to enter into a new covenant in Christ, and it is most definitely a "much better covenant", of amazing grace, truth, mercy, joy, peace, happiness and love... Especially in the end... Oh, and did I mention living forever in a heavenly paradise...

God Bless!
 
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HereIStand

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If Christianity were only about avoiding extravagance, turning the other cheek, and helping the homeless, then there would be little controversy about accepting it. Many non-Christians already agree that those are good qualities. Problems start when non-Christians are asked to embrace personal faith in Christ.
 
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A_Thinker

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If this is considered an offensive question, then please delete, but I keep being confused by the version of Christianity I see from many conservative Americans. Growing up in the UK, my experience of Christians was of loving, endlessly forgiving and gentle people who always seemed to be striving to achieve their own self-admittedly flawed version of the the message Jesus gave them.

There are plenty or christians in the US like those you know from the UK. Unfortunately, these are not the most well-known US christians. Like the Pope is the most well-known Catholic christian (because of his visibility), the most well-known christians in the US are those most visible. In too many cases, these are "christians" who do not exemplify the christian values we see in the bible.

There are christians in the US who man soup kitchens, homeless shelters, food pantries, neighborhood recreation centers, etc. American christians give more than the average contribution to global feeding, medical, and programs to provide fresh water to large numbers of less-advantaged global citizens. But you rarely hear about these christians, while you hear a lot about the "christians" who have aligned with the American Right, exemplifying the rather unchristian characteristics you have identified.

If you were to visit the local churches in the typical American city, you would find a lot of the christianity that you find in the bible.
 
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Neogaia777

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Judgment is simply to get you to agree with and be in line with God and his will, and that can be hard or tough, to get you to accept his judgement... Christians experience Judgement, but not continually, and not the consequences that should come of that judgement, do not come, but, being judged already, are passed over from judgement... Immune to the second death, will live forever... Anyway...

But, Christians, not experiencing the consequence of that Judgement, get to enter into a new covenant in Christ, and it is most definitely a "much better covenant", of amazing grace, truth, mercy, joy, peace, happiness and love... Especially in the end... Oh, and did I mention living forever in a heavenly paradise...

God Bless!
Recall the blood applied to the doorposts of the original Passover from judgement, and the death angel... Well, Christ's blood needs to be applied to the doorposts of our lives and hearts... That comes from the initial first Judgement, and only the blood of Christ washing you clean, and robing you in white...

Anyway, I think it's important to think of the meaning of the blood of Christ, and how that is tied to being passed over from the consequences of that initial judgment... But, now, being judged by it, yet not left to be condemned, are passed over from it, into a new and better covenant...

God Bless!
 
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A_Thinker

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Jesus the Christ also overturned tables and took a whip He formed Himself, to the money changers in the Temple, to drive them out.

Are you familiar with this account of what He did, and why?

So ... Jesus got tough with those who were using religion for financial gain, eh ???
 
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I think a lot of people misunderstand what it means to cast judgment on someone. It seems as if we are not allowed to disagree or have a different opinion than you without it being seen as being judgmental.

Since when is love about accepting or being okay with EVERYTHING everyone does? If you knew your friend was about to harm themselves, would you not speak up? Out of love for that person, you would tell them what they're doing is wrong and will only hurt them.

As Christians, we have a perspective of sin being harmful to others. Out of love, Jesus told the woman at the well, who had slept with 5 men, that she had five husbands and to sin no more. He judged the rich young ruler for his heart. He called the ruling religious leaders hypocrites and a brood of snakes. The bible says to judge righteously.

I was very sad the day the U.S. accepted gay marriage as the law of the land. That doesn't mean I don't love my lesbian friends and family members. It doesn't mean that I don't understand who they are, what they do, and why they do it. I've read up on it. But I also know what they're doing is wrong and harmful for themselves and has eternal consequences.

I know you are not a Christian, so you're probably not interested in watching this, but this is one of my favorite illustrations. It's worth a watch.

 
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