I have just left my Presbyterian church after being an elder and preacher for the last 18 years, because of bullying by another elder who has a controlling spirit and in a couple issues I didn't do what he was demanding of me.
Since December, I have been getting ministry from some good books I had on my bookcase, and from good Bible teachers through Youtube. I told the Lord that now I am free from the influence of that church and the demands of leadership, I am going to have a time of just being a nobody and have fellowship with Him to see what He has to say to me and how He is going to set up my future for me. One of the first things He did was to speak to me through a quote from one of Charles Spurgeon's sermons:
"I'm just a poor sinner and nothing at all,
But Jesus Christ is my all in all!"
I found that really encouraging because it confirmed to me that I was in the right place with God.
Since then, I have been getting fresh insight after another, and it has been amazing that after 50 years in the faith, I am learning and re-learning things that either I didn't realise before or that I had forgotten over the years. It seems that I am able to hear the voice of God more clearly and He is building up some of the foundations that may have had a few cracks in it.
One of the things He showed me, which made me feel a lot less guilty about walking away from that church is that a controlling spirit is a spirit of witchcraft and because the elder is controlling the services and the preaching, that spirit of witchcraft is supplanting the Holy Spirit in that church. It also reassured me that the check I had in my spirit about the man and his preaching was not just my resentment toward him, but that there is a spirit motivating him that is not of God and that sitting under his ministry could open me up to demonic attack.
But because the members of that church have been my "family" for so long, I feel sad for them, because they don't realise that they are being subjected to stuff that is not of God, regardless of how religious it might be.
But I decided to attend the church Bible study on a Thursday morning because it is led by an elder who I know loves the Lord and has my respect. I don't sense any wrong spirit in that meeting. But during May that elder is not able to lead it, and if that other elder came to lead it, I would not attend for that time.
So my experience may be an encouragement to you. I hope it is.
Hello again, Oscarr,
Man, your story demonstrates exactly what I’ve been saying, which is that confidence is not from the Lord. As we take a simple look at the world, any reasonable person can clearly see that this world doesn’t possess much confidence, for if it did, the majority of humans would be living in and by the Spirit of God. God is capable of applying his Holy Rubberstamp of emotions on whomever and whenever He desires, but that Spiritual gift of short-term confidence that one MIGHT receive, is just that, short-term. Otherwise, we are told to change, to make every effort to prepare ourselves for the narrow gate. Paul “sent” Timothy to aid not just with character, but also with individuals and their salvation. We need each other!
As we discuss witnessing, which true witnessing depends on the deliverance of a True Gospel, can you think of any false teachings (including partial gospels that did not include obedience, for example) that were planted into you that allowed your human spirit to diminish to the point of stepping down? This is somewhat to the heart of my post, which is this….is it your fault that you were not taught all that you would have been taught if you were under the teachings of Christ or Paul? No, it is impossible for the student to know that the “master” is right or wrong. I assure you of this, that you were not given the proper teachings necessary to remain bold, strong and firm. Who were your examples in your personal life to show you of such? Right….probably no one. How many people have anyone in their life that is truly confident by which to model? Exactly. So if none of us have any truly confident people in our lives to model, how in the world can we say that we even know what confidence is? Believe me, sir, there are many before you that have led you astray in your fear. And to those false teachers….well, you remember what I wrote about the millstones and exactly how our Almighty and Powerful God feels about them. God is extremely serious about false teachers, labeling them as those “born to be devoured”. False teachers could very possibly be those that are born for destruction….something to think about (for me, I guess).
Even though you’re a pastor of nearly two decades, and pardon my saying this for it will indeed sound arrogant, but I know that you have never been taught true, actual confidence. It is a most elusive subject, for if false teachers were to teach true confidence, by default they are forced to teach their flock how to test them, the preachers and teachers of the church. What false teacher wants confident peasants who are testing and examining them as they ought? False teachers, who are totally running today’s Modern-Day Christian Variety System, want their money-giving people to be weak and insecure, so as to fatten the collection plate.
What’s frightening is that I don’t believe that there are very many false teachers that are intending to be a false teacher. I’ve been to church with young men and women going into the ministry and I know for sure that they had their belief system in proper order. They were wrong. The massive majority of us are all innocently following a system that barely even models the church, clearly understandable should anyone care to read about the actual structure and function of the church. It’s amazing, but the world really is this blind, to think that our churches can be as they are and consider themselves legitimate. Pft….I’ve been intimate with co-leadership in two different churches myself. The church is in trouble and I am contending that we have all been victim of this Goliath of a problem. I am crying out that we would all wake up to this, and realize that we’re just not understanding the true Gospel of Jesus, whom if we have the Holy Faith of Abraham, that if we put that same faith into Jesus, that Jesus will then send the Holy Spirit whom alone grants eternal life and the enabling Power to remain firm, strong, bold and steadfast!
When we were young, were we taught to ask, and ask, and ask, and keep on asking and keep on asking? I don’t recall being taught anything regarding the Holy Spirit. There were no tests of our wisdom, much less our Holy Understanding of things. There was nothing….no expectations, no real challenges that would case any non-believers with false motives to scatter like flies in a tornado!
Were we taught true submission? I wasn’t! I had no idea that I had been submitting to humans my entire life, which rendered me to be a complete wimp. It was an awful life! If I am first spirit, and if everyone else is also first spirit, why would I ever submit to anything of equal essence, worth and value? There is neither Greek nor Jew, etc. It makes no sense! But no one taught me this. So how was I supposed to know? And wouldn’t it be fair to say that if no one taught me, that perhaps they didn’t know either? Let’s think about it….nearly EVERYONE we’ve ever gone to church with was and are still amazing people….yet who really understands that we should be free of what others think and only submit to God and what He thinks? Few….I’ve never spoken to a “christian” that understands these things. Paul taught that he doesn’t care about what people think who are under control of Satan Jr. the Sin Nature. Why would Paul care about what the Devil thinks? Foolishness! We should never concern ourselves, or, diminish our spirit or character, particularly our Holy character, over the sake of an emotionally sick person who is living by Satan Jr. Pft….once I figured this out, “fear” all of a sudden became the realized number one greatest tool that Satan can use on our hearts.
And what about obedience? Now that I’ve completely broken away from man’s commentaries and side notes, I depend 95% or more on God’s Spirit alone to teach me. And what have I found? A completely different Gospel other than the one that I have been taught. I had no idea of how important obedience was, for throughout my entire life I felt that I was saved, but what’s bad is that I thought that I was eternally saved. Why is that bad? If a person isn’t saved, let’s just use me as an example so that no one will be offended….I now know that I wasn’t saved, but I was living in hardcore alcohol consumption (up to 36 cans of Bud in one 24 day), rampant sex with multiple partners in a week, strip clubs, cursing, lusting, preparing relationships with women while I currently had one (just in case), and once even attempted “kidnapping” on an adult man; fortunately he could not be found. I could just go on and on, but through all of this, I truly believed that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. Wow….has God ever spared me!
If anyone were to take a sober reading of the entire bible, any reasonable, rational individual will conclude that obedience is just as important as it was while under the Law of Moses. Some make the case even more so, I would imagine.
Here is what we’ve all been missing: most “Christians” do not share the Good News of Jesus, or even other parts of their lives with others is because they are afraid. And why wouldn’t we be afraid? How many people can honestly say that they really, truly believe that they understand the Word of God? Very, very few….I’ve never met one. Without examples in our lives, people like Paul and Timothy and Titus, how and who are we to model ourselves after?
If we don’t understand submission, and if we don’t understand obedience, and if we don’t understand confidence, it would be obvious to say that our belief system would be completely out of balance.
I can’t Submit properly if I don’t Believe properly, and I can’t obey and do things rightly if I don’t understand proper submissions, and how can I be confident if I’m not obeying? And how could I ever have the guts to share the Gospel of Jesus if we’re so confused that we hold utterly no confidence? So we can’t share if we aren’t confidence and we can’t be confident if we aren’t obedient to ALL of God’s commands, and we won’t obey if we don’t properly submit and we won’t submit because our belief system has got a kink in it….(always within the belief set).
So as for my question, does this sound familiar to your heart and soul? Do you feel that your forefathers left out these necessary, just absolutely have to have understandings from you….innocently? I don’t see how this cannot be the case. The team is as good as the coaching staff, so it seems to me that God will be distributing responsibility amongst many.
I am so sorry that you were terribly treated by a co-elder. I wished that I had been there….I would have been a brick wall, upholding the Word of God with my life. This man would have been a fun challenge for sure. And I wish that your church members were holding themselves more closely to the truth, for if they were strong, firm and bold, they, as pure Brothers, would have stood for the truth. If I am the Brother of Jesus, then we are all certainly Holy Brothers and Sisters in Jesus….they were to stand with you as one body! I am saddened, and have even had moments of anger for the sorrow that you’ve endured….it isn’t right. We cannot live in fear of what others might think or do, when we live in fear, a Brother or Sister suffers and that’s all there is to it. You, for example, were forced to suffer because of a flock that was too frightened to defend you, taking your Holy side as Pastor.
Then again, Oscarr, God is capable of hardening hearts….and as many as He desires. Perhaps you are right where you are supposed to be, eh?
I appreciate your sharing your tremendous story that many would be ashamed to share….I respect you tremendously! You are a man of strength, for anyone to admit weakness….that is strength and there are few that I’ve met that are as honest as yourself.
I believe in you….