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Featured Why Don't Christian's Witness About Jesus?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Thess, Mar 11, 2019.

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  1. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    Some might, but others don't. Most of the discussion is civil and amicable. The most charitable types will say we cannot have pulpit and altar fellowship with each other due to insufficient agreement, but that's not the same as saying we are apostates. Lutherans can and do cooperate across synodical lines. We've had get-togethers and gatherings locally, and we have shared missions and parachurch ministries. We just don't have a formal liturgy together, because for us worship is more than just a meeting with some hymns and prayers. It represents the highest form of unity, since we gather together in the same confession of faith and share the same sacraments. It is not shaped by the same kind of individualism that marks most of American Evangelicalism.

    Who defines what is and is not Scriptural? You seem to have a naive understanding of biblical interpretation.
     
  2. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Of course, but the point remains that some do. The obvious point I was making is that even denominations are now clearly becoming fractured and splitting.

    And you seem to continue to make judgmental and condescending responses to people all over this forum. I suspect my education far exceeds yours, but that's neither here nor there. Whether we agree or not about who defines what is or what is not Biblical, I would think we can agree that America is becoming more morally corrupt with each passing generation. I know you like to argue virtually every chance you can, but surely that is something you too have seen. The moral decay of our culture and society is nothing new.

    And the sad reality is that it is apparent that many Churches are becoming more and more postmodern and watered down in their position on moral issues.
     
  3. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    No, I don't believe that. I believe every generation has its challenges and I refuse to condemn this one merely because people face different challenges.

    As if being right was the be-all, end-all of Christianity?
     
  4. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Few people want to hear about it, and we were told not to "cast our pearls before swine," to recognize the signs of the end, and to simply exhibit the essence of the Redeemer through our lives.

    The bible canon is on the entire plane of existence in a plethora of languages. Missionaries still go out and teach. But, the world has been flooded with false-teachers that not only make stumbling blocks for believers, but repel souls to be saved.

    In the end, there will only be a remnant; we are watching the consequences of the end of an age.
     
  5. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Well I certainly find it hard to believe that you don't think America has morally declined over the past generations. You're certainly the first person I've ever heard to suggest that. I think the only way someone could potentially argue that would be if they believed morality was entirely subjective.

    However, I think the picture Scripture teaches is that God is immutable in His character, and that morality stems from that, and that Scripture provides us with the basis for understanding what is right and what is wrong. And if it is true that morality is objective and that Scripture does provide the foundation for understanding what is moral and not, then we can actually take what Scripture teaches and look at culture and make a determination as to whether or not secular culture is in a moral decline.

    And indeed, I don't know of any credible theologian that would actually argue that American culture is not in moral decline. Perhaps you can provide some support for your position?

    Certainly it's not, and hopefully nobody would say it is. You do seem to have this tendency though of making statements as if the people you are talking to are saying them when they are not.
     
  6. A Realist

    A Realist Living in Reality

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    I tend to think that a great portion of "current" immorality already existed and that the preponderance of social media, 24/7 news, and the internet has brought it to light.
     
  7. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    .
     
  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    From what I read in scripture, the total global volume of anti-Christian morality should steadily increase over time.

    That doesn't mean there aren't periodic and temporary eddies of relatively more righteousness in various areas from time to time.

    But it's also true that people will have a tendency to think they are in one of those eddies when, in fact, they're not.
     
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  9. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I have to disagree. In the 1920s men and women were having affairs, people were consuming illegal drugs, and mass killings were taking place. What they didn't have in the 1920s was social media. Back then things happened and unless it was reported on the radio by NBC, CBS or Mutual Broadcasting or in a major newspaper no one heard about it. Today we have instantaneous communications, 24 hour news and social media.

    Perhaps. Of course there are, sadly, some Christians who would say that allowing interracial marriage was a watered-down position on a moral issue.
     
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  10. Thess

    Thess Well-Known Member

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    What a great post. Thank you so much! The way in which you have written, which such a soft a gentle tone and feel to it, is certainly something that I aspire to, but all should aspire to be more of how you have demonstrated yourself. The Holy Spirit is within you; it is easy to tell and feel.

    I love all that you've said. I hope that some will listen to what you've written; so I say we watch the Power of God at work, and see what Holy things will be done....perhaps through your own example. Again, you have a tremendous, and perhaps Spiritual gift of writing. You could and perhaps already are a very, very useful tool for God. What an honor!
     
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  11. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Yes I see the privatization of religion. More and more pastors obligate the group to them via building loans, if not outright ownership of the property. It's kinda hard to fire the owner.
     
  12. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Bible bashing people and getting into their faces is not witnessing for Jesus. Living a life glorifying Christ and letting our light shine before people is the more effective witness. They will read us before they read the Bible.

    If they see that we are loving, joyful, peaceable, gentle, kind, good, faithful, patient and self controlled at home, at work, while doing the shopping, on a grey Monday morning at work, when a car cuts in front of us on the road, then they will see the vast difference between us and worldly people. They may not always ask us up front, but there will be questions in their minds: "What is it about that person that they were so patient with me when I fender bended their car at the intersection? Or what was it about that person who, when I couldn't pay my fare on the bus, paid it for me? Or what was it about my employee when I reprimanded him about an error he made, that he took with patience and humility?

    Those are what it means to witness to Christ. Those are the behaviour that generate questions in people's minds that give opportunities to tell people what Jesus has done for you and what you can do for them.
     
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  13. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, and occasionally Seventh Day Adventists knock at the door or leave literature in your mail box but did you join them? Is that approach persuasive? It isn't biblical, but that may not matter so much. People do lots of things that are not biblical and expect to be praised for doing them. Like sending money to a televangelist, expecting a miracle when they touch a TV screen as some famous person prays for their bodily ills and so forth. Some call that "faith". So with going from door to door delivering literature or presenting a message from your denomination/organisation. It's just something that a group or two want to do to gain recruits and if that is what you're advocating as a "Christian" thing to do and as something that is a shame for Christians not to do then you're mistaken. It is mainly annoying to have unwanted religious solicitations brought to your door. I don't like it when somebody knocks to tell me about their local Kingdom Hall's "Lord's evening meal" commemoration and hands to me a little fold out "invitation" to the event. I refuse it and suggest that they keep it for somebody who may be interested. I make an effort to be polite but I am not interested in joining their organisation - not even a tiny bit interested.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
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  14. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    Years ago I had some PC-USA Presbyterian folks came to our house and just tell us about their new church and they invited us. Though we never went, I appreciate that their approach was straightforward and wasn't about trying to persuade me that my own religious beliefs were inadequate.
     
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  15. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 "Excuse me... what does God need with a starship?" Supporter

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    In smaller religious groups, there tends to be less accountability and ownership of church properties is in fewer and fewer hands. That's not a sign of spiritual vitality, necessarily, that's a sign of somebody who has given up the hard work of actually contributing to a community themselves in favor of handing it over to what often amounts to cults of personality.

    My S.O. used to belong to a renegade Nazarene church that had an abusive pastor that was attempting to split off the church from the denomination and do his own thing. He was eventually defrocked by Nazarenes and the property was reposessed. In alot of smaller religious denominations or non-denominational church, abusive leaders can easily get away with that much easier, and there's no one to stop them or hold them accountable.
     
  16. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    I do have another question about witnessing to others. I eat lunch with people who wear religious themed ball caps 3 times a week along with 30 others in a mixed crowd of believers and unbelievers. I wonder if some one can explain why no one in over 5 years has approached them with even a religious question. Another occasionally comes and passes out tracts to most every one with no response. Yes we talk to each other. I pretty much get along with every one. Even passed out roses to the ladies with no intent or special occasion. What else should we do?
     
  17. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    I've seen it from small to large. So I don't quite concur with you. That's OK. BTW I also identify with you on what some will do. "Tis very sad indeed.
     
  18. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    That's very acceptable way to reach out to people.
     
  19. Thess

    Thess Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, and well said.

    You know what would have helped me? I wished that someone would have slapped me, hard, right in the face. I wished that someone had cut off a hand, or something, just to wake me up so that I might understand. And while that may seem drastic, it isn't. That's exactly how real God is to me, so while I am grate that I have been fully awakened at such a late age, I realize how much more I could have accomplished by the end of my life, but God's plan is Powerful and Perfect. I have to keep myself in check when it comes to His Perfect Plan.

    But anyway, I really do wish that I had preachers and teachers that would help me to determine whether or not I was saved. I couldn't believe, that when I started looking, there are ALL KINDS of passages that talk about how we can determine whether or not we are saved. Now, why is is that I've never recieved that teaching? Seems to me that if we did, we'd be able to quickly determine that our pastors and elders were fakes and frauds (unknowingly).

    If I ever pastor a church, I will teach my Brothers and Sisters to test me in every way possible. I would fully teach them how to do this, so that they would be able to teach their Brothers and Sisters the exact same thing. Look, if we're going to teach "Transparency", then we as pastors had better live such pure lives that we could be 100% Transparent, which, by the way, is how one lives with a Clear Conscious. So I would have really appreciated if I had lot's of people in every church that I've ever membered, and took the time to confirm if I was truly saved. If they had, I would have had an opportunity to get my very deadly and destructive life in proper order. I was really weak, frightened, abused and just needed some "Christians" to take pity on me and give me some simple guidance. No one actually raised me, so I really got off to a late start. And no, I'm not a victim. We all have our own Sin Nature to contend with, and this is mine....big deal. Anyway, thanks again....great post.
     
  20. Oscarr

    Oscarr Senior Veteran Supporter

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    None of us are perfect, and we make mistakes. I wonder what would be the effect on that shop owner if you went back to that shop and confessed that you had stolen the rubber bands and made restitution for them - that as a Christian you believed it is the right thing to do?

    One thing that would happen - you would have a new sense of freedom and release in your spirit!
     
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