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Featured Why Doesn't Israel Rebuild The Holy Temple?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You went to the remains of Roman Fort Antonia.

    The Temple Mount and Fort Antonia


    Mat 24:1  Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 
    Mat 24:2  And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." 

    Read the book "Temple", by Robert Cornuke if you want to understand the actual location of the Jewish temple based on the most recent work by Israeli archeologist, Eli Shukron.

    Eli was the man who rediscovered the "Pool of Siloam" a few years ago. He is one of the most well known and most respected archeologists in Israel today. He says the area known as "The Temple Mount" cannot be the site of Herod's temple.

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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  2. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is nothing in your above post #75 that begins to deny the Scriptural facts in my post #74, there will be two more temples built in Jerusalem.

    Review the following endorsement from another source:

    The New Testament opens with the four-gospel revelation of God's Son, Jesus. John in His gospel says that God in Christ "tabernacled" among men. Later in the First Century, both Paul and Peter call the true church "a living temple." Individual believers are "living stones" and Christ is Himself the foundation stone or the "chief cornerstone." For two thousand years of Biblical history the emphasis has been on assemblies or congregations of Christians or Jews, not on sacred buildings.

    Yet there are at least three references in the New Testament to a temple building existing in Jerusalem in the future as noted above. From the context these references appear to refer to a new, or "Third Temple" yet to be built in the city. There has been growing interest since the rebirth of Israel in 1948 among the Jews for a central place of worship in their capital city. Although synagogues have served admirably as centers of worship and community for the Jews in their dispersion, a temple in Jerusalem on the exact site of the Second Temple is required by the Jews as a central house of prayer and focal point of the faith until Messiah comes.

    Because of our sins we were exiled from our country and banished from our land. We cannot go up as pilgrims to worship Thee, to perform our duties in Thy chosen house, the great and Holy Temple which was called by Thy name, on account of the hand that was let loose on Thy sanctuary. May it be Thy will, Lord our God and God of our fathers, merciful King, in Thy abundant love again to have mercy on us and on Thy sanctuary; rebuild it speedily and magnify its glory. (The Jewish Prayer Book)

    According to Maimonedes it is incumbent on the Jews to maintain the temple in Jerusalem if it is in existence and to rebuild it speedily if it does not. Many Jews acknowledge from the Tanach that shedding of blood is associated with the remission of sins. Thus the restoration of animal sacrifices in a properly consecrated temple is seen as very important to them.

    The Third Temple must be placed on the same spot of ground as the First and Second Temples because of the Jewish concept of zones of holiness on Yahweh's sacred mountain.

    Jesus spoke of the Third Temple building in Jerusalem when discussing with his disciples the chain of events that would bring the close of the present age and his return. He spoke of an event yet future predicted by Daniel the prophet when the temple in Jerusalem would suffer ultimate defilement by a false Messiah who claimed to be God:

    "So when you see the desolating sacrilege spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; let him who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house; and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle. And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days! Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be." (Matthew 24:15-21)

    Since only a properly consecrated temple can be defiled, this passage implies a functioning, dedicated Third Temple and priesthood in existence in the end time at the time Jesus said he would return.

    The apostle Paul, writing a few years later, describes this same event:

    "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God," (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4).

    The coming false Jewish messiah, resembling his predecessor Antiochus Epiphanes (~175 BC), is the "worthless shepherd" spoken of by the prophet Zechariah - and the man Jesus spoke of when he said to the Jews, "I have come in my Father's name and you would not receive me. Another will come in his own name, him you will receive." (John 5:43) (See also Daniel 9:27, Revelation 13:18)

    Finally, the existence of the Third Temple in Jerusalem at the close of the age is confirmed by the aged apostle John when he recorded the Book of the Revelation:

    "Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told 'Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months."' (Revelation 11:

    For the complete article:

    http://www.templemount.org/TM34.html



    Quasar92
     
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  3. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Joh 2:19  Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." 


     
  4. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The belief you have that the number of times you can write denials of the Scriptures proving stone building temples will be built, are the spiritual temples of our body, is dead on arrival. You can post your denials of the Scriptures for the rest of your life to the benefit of your own ego, and answer for it to the Lord in His BEMA judgment! Posts #74 and #82 refute you!


    Quasar92
     
  5. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near.

    Josephus also reports that the roman army performed sacrifes at the eastern gate after they laid siege to it.

    How is the temple in Matthew 24 not the one that was destroyed in 70ad?
     
  6. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Warnings about the Two Peoples of God/ Two Plans of God doctrine are found below.

    1Ti_1:4  Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.


    1Ti_4:7  But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.


    2Ti_4:4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.


    Tit_1:14  Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.



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  7. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Paul is referring to a "naos" temple, which is a spiritual temple in every instance in which Paul uses the word in his epistles. He is thus identifying one who arrogates spiritual authority within the Church. History records the Roman papacy which arose out of the dissolution of the imperial Roman empire as a precise fulfillment of Paul's description.
     
  8. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    The prophetic Scriptures clearly predict that the Third Temple will be built and the sacrifices reinstated, in the final years leading up to the Return of the Messiah. It is clear, too, that there will be more than just the Jewish people living in the Land of Greater Israel. All the Israelites, all of God's people from every tribe [of Israel] every race, every nation and every language, will migrate to New Israel, to be called Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, soon after the Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, the terrible Day of fire and storms, that will clear and cleanse most of the Middle East.
    The place of the new Temple, may be to the North of the existing Dome of the Rock, because this is in the direct line of the now sealed Eastern gate. The Bible, the Torah, and Josephus, all agree that the Temple was in that location. The Temple Institute, in Jerusalem, has made the utensils for the Temple worship, including the robes and breastplate for the High Priest. The Ark of the Covenant will be brought from its hiding place. Zechariah 6:15 Men from far away will come to work on rebuilding the Temple.

    The Jewish sage, Moses Maimonides, known as Rambam, declared that the Temple will be rebuilt and the exiles from around the world gathered back into the Promised Land.

    The Messiah will appear and re-establish the glory of King David.

    In the Talmud Yerushalmi, Rabbi Acha says; The Beit Hamikdash [Holy Temple] will be built first, before the advent of the Kingdom of David.

    The Pnei Moshe states; The Land will be settled first, then the people will become prosperous, after that they will build the Temple and finally, the Messiah will come.

    In the Mar’eh Punim the Gaon Moshe Margolis wrote that when Jacob predicted the future of Judah, he foretold that the Temple would be rebuilt first, then the Messiah would come.


    The whole scenario of the end times, has a logical sequence to it. At last, we can see how things are happening that will see a confederation of Islamic states and entities that will be motivated to get rid of the ‘ cancer ‘ in their midst, that is the State of Israel. The moment of their attack, is the moment that God will intervene. This great Day of the Lord, will take the form of a natural event – a coronal mass ejection, a massive sunstrike of cosmic particles, causing intense heat and electrical storms. The attacking armies will be destroyed by their own weaponry, as they all explode before firing. This will literally fulfil the prayer in Psalms 83:13-18, Psalms 11:4-6

    Many prophesies speak of the regeneration of the Land of Greater Israel, “in a very short while” [Isaiah 29:17] after this great clearance and cleansing of the entire area. Righteous Israel- “those who love the Lord and follow in His ways” will then gather “on the mountains of Samaria”. This is described very well in Ezekiel 20:34-38.

    Over 40 prophesies describe how all the Israelites, now every faithful Christian, will live in peace and security in their own Land. At last, they will be as God originally intended, “a light to the nations”, they will “exemplify My Holiness for all to see”. Ezekiel 39:27-29 [The attack by Gog/ Magog will come during this period]

    They will build the Third Temple, and “the splendour of this latter House will surpass that of the former”. Haggai 2:9 & Zechariah 8:9-13 have wonderful promises of restoration and redemption; Courage! Do not lose heart!
     
  9. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Referece to the second temple tht was destroyed is recorded in Mt.24:1-2. The third temple yet to be built is the one Jesus referred to in His Olivet Discourse prophesy about the Great tribulation, in verse 15.

    Hope this helps.


    Quasar92
     
  10. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    THE CHURCH IS NOT SPIRITUAL ISRAEL]

    The church that started at Pentecost is not symbolically or spiritually called Israel, according to the Scriptures. Neither has the church replaced Israel so that it will receive the promises that God gave to Israel. There are some verses that could be twisted, by those lacking spiritual discernment or liberals, making it look like the name Israel means the church. Israel is never replaced by the church! Some “Christians”, like those at “Christ at the Checkpoint” conferences, falsely believe that the church has taken the place of Israel so that God can use them to solve the Israeli and Palestinian conflict! They take Scriptures out of context to prove their point and throw Old Testament prophesies in the fire, like Jehoiakim, king of Judah did, Jeremiah 36.

    Romans 9:6-8 “Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
    Here, Paul may be addressing those who thought they were entitled to the Promised Land, no matter what they believed. This is not addressing the church as Israel. God did not count those Jews who rejected Him as the true Israel. To be entitled to the Promised Land as a Jew in the Messiah’s Kingdom, the individual Jew has to believe on Jesus, just as Abraham and Isaac did. Even though they did not know Jesus by name at that time, they trusted that God would send a Saviour, as He promised! The true Israelite must be born in the flesh, and in their spirit, by the Spirit of God. True Israel is only the saved Jewish remnant!

    Romans 11:2-5 “God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”
    God is all knowing. He will not force Jews to be saved, but He did know that there would be a remnant who would freely accept Him as their Saviour. These are real Jews, not the church replacing Israel! Elias (Elijah) had a pity party, and God told Him that there were still other Jews serving Him. The people who Elijah was told about were Jews according to the flesh, just like those being saved in Paul’s time. Paul said that even during his time there was still a remnant of Israel who was being saved. This Scripture is evidence that God will continue to have a remnant of Jews to receive the promises made to Abraham!

    Romans 11:25 “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
    The big-brained liberals who teaches Replacement Theology says that Romans 11 is talking about the church when it says Israel. So, am I to believe Israel, “the church” had to be blinded so that the Gentiles could be saved? That would not make any sense to a school boy. No! Israel is Israel and the church is the church! When God completes His goal to win many Gentiles, He will open the eyes of the Jews once again. Many liberal “Christians” allow their brains to puff up with pride. They think that they have replaced Israel. But, God is not through with Israel.He still needs to add to the Jewish remnant, who will see the fulfillment of the promises to Abraham.

    Galatians 6:16 “And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.”
    This simply means that God owns Israel, and they certainly do need peace and mercy. God formed Israel in the beginning, and He has molded and refined Israel ever since.

    If you read the book of Acts, you will find that both the words Israel and church appear many times. They are never interchangeable. They are two separate things. The church will never replace Israel and receive the Promised Land as an inheritance. The church is not promised by God to even share the Promised Land with the Jews. The church is not Israel, and they have no guarantee to inherit the land that God promised Israel. But, God uses the church to glean the Jewish remnant from the fields of the world. In the future, the church will come with Jesus when He carries out God’s final solution for the Israeli and Palestinian conflict. Meanwhile, the church can help God with the future final solution by winning Jews to Jesus, praying for them, supporting them financially, and by standing up for them instead of against them!

    HIBM Editorial by Avi Goldstein * The Church Is Not Spiritual Israel! – Dr. K. Daniel Fried, Editor in Chief – hopeofisrael.net


    Quassr92
     
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  11. Original Happy Camper

    Original Happy Camper One of GODS Children I am a historicist Supporter

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    No gap theory here just Biblical time line. As you can see the end of all time prophecies in the Bible is 1844. The last week of the 70 weeks pertain to Jesus Christ not Satan at the end of time.

    You refer to Newton, this is part of what he believed and wrote,
    Newton on Daniel 7
    " In his commentary on Daniel, Newton gives extended treatment to the vision of the four beasts.26 In it, he provides a lexicon of symbols needed to decipher prophetic language. He asserts that in this way one can read prophetic language just as one reads natural phenomena. He wrote that: “This [prophetic] language is taken from the analogy between the world natural and an empire or kingdom considered as a world politic” (Whitla 1922: 149). He claims that the four beasts of the vision represents Babylonia, Persia, Greece and Rome (Ibid 1922: 157; Kochavi 1994: 110). The inclusion of Rome is significant. He ‘proves’ that the prophecy includes Rome by demonstrating how historical evidence leads to that conclusion. The description of this “fearful, terrifying” beast (7:7) represents the Roman empire since it was “larger, stronger and more formidable” than any other (Whitla 1922: 158). But what clinches this interpretation is his view of the beast’s ten horns. In the vision, three horns are pulled away and a little horn grows up in their place. According to Newton’s symbolic lexicon, horns represent political powers (Ibid 1922: 152). He asserts that the ten horns represent the ten kingdoms which came to power with the collapse of the Roman Empire (Ibid 1922: 160-87). Showing remarkable learning, he reviews at great length the Vandals, Goths, the Visigoths, Franks and Huns, ten kingdoms in all,27 starting in the fifth century, and how they rose to power and overthrew Rome. Crucial for him then is the idea that these ten horns are a continuation of the Roman Empire. He surveys how these groups adopted the Christianity of Rome (Kochavi 1994: 110; Whitla 1922: 195). He also reviews the history of the rise of the Roman Church."

    Read more here on page eight
    http://www.mille.org/publications/Confpro98/Goff.PDF
     
  12. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is pure non-Scriptural fiction! Explain to me how the Church gets into heaven for the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus recorded in Rev.19:7-8. The Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white nd clean, in His armies from heaven, in verse 14.


    Quasar92
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    The above is clearly a false statement, based upon the words of Peter found below on the Day of Pentecost.

    Act 2:22  "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—
     
    Act 2:36  "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 

    .
     
  14. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Uh, aren't we discussing 2 Thess. 2:4?
     
  15. Traveling teacher

    Traveling teacher Well-Known Member

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    I did read the article on temple mount and Fort antonia
    Also have kept up with some of bob cornukes adventures
    He is qcurate on some and missing it on others....
    But he is a really good christian bro!!!!

    Like i said i have walked the temple mount many times in the last 20 years......walked the walls, the ramparts walked by the eastern gate that is closed.....
    Listened to archeologists theories........
    Walked the archeolgy excavation area in your pic betwen the temple and the antonia fortress......
    8 trips to be exact

    Howver i am not an expert on this

    I have heard this arguement before about the temple being down on the edge of the top of mount zion the old ancient city of david.......

    Not 100% discounting the theory???????...however

    To be correct the temple would have to be built on the edge of a steep mountain......i have walked this old city of david and it is a sheer drop.....
    Nobody walks this unless they are in really good shape...

    Also the location of the eastern gate in the pic is not acurate it is way down toward the edge of the hill
    As the eastern gate today goes directly into the temple mount......
    Also past excavations found the old eastern gate underneath.......

    In matthew 24:1
    JEsus specifically referenced the buildings of the temple
    Didnt say walls or foundation stones!!!

    Those walls around the temple gate have been rebuilt many times since the 1st century
    Last to rebuild the walls was Suliman around 1500ad

    The mount of olives is directly across from the temple mount and would seem to be more acurate that the bridge would directly connect the mount of olives to the eastern gate and the temple as Jesus would have walked directly into it when He entred The temple with the crowds before passover on the triumphal entry
     
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  16. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    I have 2 problems with vs 15 being about a 3rd temple that maybe you can help me reconcile. First, Luke parallels this verse by saying Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near." This happened in when the Roman armies sieged Jerusalem in 70AD. Secondly, Jesus tells the disciples that their generation will not pass until all the things that Christ prophesied about in Matthew 24:1-35 happen. Matthew 24:34 34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
     
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