Why does Matthew 22:30 cause me SO MUCH PAIN?

[Jamdoc]

Why can't you marry?

Lots of reasons but suffice to say, I think God doesn't want me to (so He has given me those lots of reasons)

 

[HIM]

Lots of reasons but suffice to say, I think God doesn't want me to (so He has given me those lots of reasons)

They also could be your reasons not God's. How is your self esteem? How do you see yourself?
Have you been in any relationships? Any friends?

 

[Jamdoc]

They also could be your reasons not God's. How is your self esteem? How do you see yourself?
Have you been in any relationships? Any friends?

I have reasons too, but God has given me those reasons, and God has also caused things to happen that have trainwrecked any attempts at it, things totally out of my control, out of her control too, but totally in God's control.

Either way. Marriage on this earth, in this body, wouldn't satisfy, or make me feel better about this verse, or what it represents, that no matter what, that relationship would be temporary at best. That eros love simply does not exist in eternity.
This thread never should have been addressed from the point of earthly marriage because that was not my focus but it seems to be everyone's focus. I'm terrible at wording things.
I gave up on earthly life years ago.

 

[HIM]

I have reasons too, but God has given me those reasons, and God has also caused things to happen that have trainwrecked any attempts at it, things totally out of my control, out of her control too, but totally in God's control.

Either way. Marriage on this earth, in this body, wouldn't satisfy, or make me feel better about this verse, or what it represents, that no matter what, that relationship would be temporary at best. That eros love simply does not exist in eternity.
This thread never should have been addressed from the point of earthly marriage because that was not my focus but it seems to be everyone's focus. I'm terrible at wording things.
I gave up on earthly life years ago.

You might of gave up on earthy life but by the words of your op you have not let go. What makes these reasons you see within yourself are God's?

 

[Jamdoc]

You might of gave up on earthy life but by the words of your op you have not let go. What makes these reasons you see within yourself are God's?

What I haven't let go is a desire to love and be loved by a woman, and to possibly have children to love.
But if that does not last forever.. then it would still hurt me anyway.
It is the eternal aspect that hurts.
Not the temporal.
To be honest, you being married, I don't know how you feel totally comfortable that in eternity, that relationship is forever over. That could also be part of it. It would possibly make me resent God for taking something wonderful away forever, I'm bad enough with my feelings on that as it is.

But on your question. When things totally out of your control happen every time you attempt to do something, do you not see God's hand working in it? I'm not talking cause and effect, I'm talking maneuvering you in a way you'd have never chosen for yourself. I'm talking things that are either the will of God, or near impossible coincidences.
If God tells you "no" enough times, you start to recognize it.

 

[A_Thinker]

What I haven't let go is a desire to love and be loved by a woman, and to possibly have children to love.
But if that does not last forever.. then it would still hurt me anyway.
It is the eternal aspect that hurts.
Not the temporal.
To be honest, you being married, I don't know how you feel totally comfortable that in eternity, that relationship is forever over. That could also be part of it. It would possibly make me resent God for taking something wonderful away forever, I'm bad enough with my feelings on that as it is.

But on your question. When things totally out of your control happen every time you attempt to do something, do you not see God's hand working in it? I'm not talking cause and effect, I'm talking maneuvering you in a way you'd have never chosen for yourself. I'm talking things that are either the will of God, or near impossible coincidences.
If God tells you "no" enough times, you start to recognize it.

You seem to be sure that God is guiding you into a particular type of life.

Of course that involves sacrifice, but usually it means that He also has something special for you to do.

Consider Moses, Paul, Jeremiah, ... even Jesus.

Also possibly consider that you may be interpreting too broadly what God is "withholding" from you.

Perhaps it is, simply, procreation.

Perhaps God wouldn't object to you having a "love interest" and subsequent relationship, ... so long as the two of you both took steps to prevent children being born to the union.

Recall that Paul encouraged early christians to abstain from marriage (and thus, procreation) ... because he felt that the time was short before Christ's return ... and also due to the high level of persecution that the church was undergoing in his day.

Also recall that Jesus said that those that are pregnant, have newborns, and/or small children would be at a disadvantage when the events of the end-times begin to unfold ...

Matthew 24

15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Life on Earth is circumstantial by nature. This may simply not be a great time to bring children into the world.

Recall the words of Jesus as He described the unwatchful attitudes of the people as the Flood of Noah's day approached, ... and prophetically, ... as the events of the end times begin to unfold ...

Luke 17

26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

It might be wise to seek after what God might be leading you to, ... rather just what He seems to be leading you away from ...

 

[Jamdoc]

You seem to be sure that God is guiding you into a particular type of life.

Of course that involves sacrifice, but usually it means that He also has something special for you to do.

Consider Moses, Paul, Jeremiah, ... even Jesus.

Also possibly consider that you may be interpreting too broadly what God is "withholding" from you.

Perhaps it is, simply, procreation.

Perhaps God wouldn't object to you having a "love interest" and subsequent relationship, ... so long as the two of you both took steps to prevent children being born to the union.

Recall that Paul encouraged early christians to abstain from marriage (and thus, procreation) ... because he felt that the time was short before Christ's return ... and also due to the high level of persecution that the church was undergoing in his day.

Also recall that Jesus said that those that are pregnant, have newborns, and/or small children would be at a disadvantage when the events of the end-times begin to unfold ...

Matthew 24

15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

Life on Earth is circumstantial by nature. This may simply not be a great time to bring children into the world.

Recall the words of Jesus as He described the unwatchful attitudes of the people as the Flood of Noah's day approached, ... and prophetically, ... as the events of the end times begin to unfold ...

Luke 17

26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

It might be wise to seek after what God might be leading you to, ... rather just what He seems to be leading you away from ...

That's the real scary part actually. Because I feel like I've been being conditioned to suffer and live in isolation. I don't have any guidance other than to wait.. wait for what? Well, we may find out soon why it'd be a bad time to have children and form earthly relationships.
and why it might be good to be trained for isolation and suffering.

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[mama2one]

I don't have any guidance other than to wait.. wait for what?

most people I know met their spouses at work including me

if you want to marry, find somewhere to meet people since you're not at a workplace daily (once pandemic over)

 

[A_Thinker]

That's the real scary part actually. Because I feel like I've been being conditioned to suffer and live in isolation. I don't have any guidance other than to wait.. wait for what? Well, we may find out soon why it'd be a bad time to have children and form earthly relationships.
and why it might be good to be trained for isolation and suffering.

There is a big difference between singleness and isolation.

Once the COVID cloud lifts, ... get out and find a group of people to spend time with. One of the first things God said about His new creation, Adam, ... was that it was not good for him to be alone (note that Adam was ALL alone).

One of the easiest ways to find people associations ... is to find groups with whom you have a common cause or interest. You could take a class ... or dedicate some of your time to helping others.

I was single until I was 40. Though, at times, it was hard, ... I found comfort, strength, and community through becoming involved at my local church. It got to the point where I wished for more time for myself ... and it was then ... that I found a wife.

I, too, will have no physical descendants, ... but I have many spiritual sons and daughters, as well as brothers and sisters. Consider how you might contribute and share into the lives of others ... for, in doing so, you will make friends and family for eternity ...

Matthew 6

31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.

 

[East of Eden]

You have been watching to many romance movies.

Most marriages end in divorce. The marriages that do stay together due, more than likely, to protect the children and for others there are financial reasons.

I went through a period of asking guys in their fifties and sixties. Whether they would get married; if they lived their lifetime over again. Almost no one said they would get married again. Nearly all said they loved their kids and I don't remember even one saying that they loved their wife.

Marriage is work, love in a marriage is something you have to put into practice and often. Sound, healthy marriages, rarely occur naturally.

Your concept of marriage is more of a fantasy than the reality of living, with another person for the rest of your life. Choose your wife carefully and wisely, otherwise you will seriously regret ever getting married.

Every marriage I have ever known ended in divorce or separation.

I was going to say something like the above, funny the single want to be married and many married don't want to be. Some in difficult marriages feel very alone. Kids can be no picnic either, we had two kids, one was on heroin for a while the other attempted suicide. They're in a much better place now, but still...

None of us will be married in heaven. I can't conceive of being there and saying, "This is nice, but I miss ___________ from when I was on earth." Marriage was established for procreative purposes and to help each other through life on a fallen earth. Neither will be a need in heaven.

 

[East of Eden]

Real joy is a fruit of the Spirit, not a fruit of circumstances. God does not take away joy because He IS joy. Put God first in everything. You will know peace and joy that passes understanding.

Yup, Joy is spelled J - Jesus, O - others, Y - yourself.

 

[Jamdoc]

Yup, Joy is spelled J - Jesus, O - others, Y - yourself.

Yeah so.. I'll just have JO
instead of JOY
cool

 

[Jonathan Dahlin]

Yeah so.. I'll just have JO
instead of JOY
cool

I was going to say something like the above, funny the single want to be married and many married don't want to be. Some in difficult marriages feel very alone. Kids can be no picnic either, we had two kids, one was on heroin for a while the other attempted suicide. They're in a much better place now, but still...

None of us will be married in heaven. I can't conceive of being there and saying, "This is nice, but I miss ___________ from when I was on earth." Marriage was established for procreative purposes and to help each other through life on a fallen earth. Neither will be a need in heaven.

I think Psalm 84:11 contradicts Matthew 22:30, because the latter says that God withholds marriage and sex from those who are lifelong singles and the resurrected ones in heaven. Isn't marriage and sex a good thing? Doesn't Matthew 22:30 therefore mean that God is withholding something good from those in heaven?

 

[East of Eden]

I think Psalm 84:11 contradicts Matthew 22:30, because the latter says that God withholds marriage and sex from those who are lifelong singles and the resurrected ones in heaven. Isn't marriage and sex a good thing? Doesn't Matthew 22:30 therefore mean that God is withholding something good from those in heaven?

CS Lewis uses an analogy for those who ask will there be sex in heaven. It's like a child, when told sex is a great pleasure, asks whether you eat chocolate while doing it, since that is his notion of life's greatest pleasure. Similarly, we can't imagine the glories of heaven.

 

[Jamdoc]

CS Lewis uses an analogy for those who ask will there be sex in heaven. It's like a child, when told sex is a great pleasure, asks whether you eat chocolate while doing it, since that is his notion of life's greatest pleasure. Similarly, we can't imagine the glories of heaven.

I honestly think that is the dumbest analogy that anyone has ever put pen to paper on.
It never ceases to make me facepalm because it's a dumb idea, and yet a lot of well meaning Christians use it.
People who have had sex still enjoy chocolate, sometimes people enjoy chocolate longer than they enjoy sex.
CS Lewis is doing the absolute boneheaded idea of thinking of every pleasure a person experiences quantitatively. Where it's all just dopamine fixes and God's the biggest dopamine fix so why would you want any lesser ones
That's a junkie's way of thinking.
Things are all qualitatively different. Nobody except junkies likes just one single thing and never wants anything else. You're either a junkie or deceiving yourself to think in that lines.

I think even seeing Jesus face to face
you'll still like chocolate.

 

[East of Eden]

I honestly think that is the dumbest analogy that anyone has ever put pen to paper on.
It never ceases to make me facepalm because it's a dumb idea, and yet a lot of well meaning Christians use it.
People who have had sex still enjoy chocolate, sometimes people enjoy chocolate longer than they enjoy sex.
CS Lewis is doing the absolute boneheaded idea of thinking of every pleasure a person experiences quantitatively. Where it's all just dopamine fixes and God's the biggest dopamine fix so why would you want any lesser ones
That's a junkie's way of thinking.
Things are all qualitatively different. Nobody except junkies likes just one single thing and never wants anything else. You're either a junkie or deceiving yourself to think in that lines.

I think even seeing Jesus face to face
you'll still like chocolate.

"The former things will not be remembered." I really doubt in heaven we'll be saying, "This is nice, but I miss _________ on the old, fallen earth."

Who knows, there may be chocolate at the heavenly banquet, without the calories.

 

[Jamdoc]

"The former things will not be remembered." I really doubt in heaven we'll be saying, "This is nice, but I miss _________ on the old, fallen earth."

Who knows, there may be chocolate at the heavenly banquet, without the calories.

There's no scripture saying there won't be.
Marriage, Oceans, and Night are the only non sin things that are said will not be in the age to come.. but I kinda wonder if the night and sea are symbols, like "no more sea" means no more pagan nations, because the sea is often used for gentile unbelieving nations. and similarly no more night wouldn't necessarily mean no more time when the sky is filled with stars, but rather no more spiritual darkness.
I'm not certain on those.
I hope there's still oceans and night. Some of my favorite creatures that God created are marine in nature (sea otters, dolphins and whales, manatees, sea lions and seals).. some of my favorite creatures are nocturnal (owls for one)

By rationale of there being no death it's also assumed there's no meat but.. some people say jokingly things like ribeye trees and what not.. and I think.. well.. it's possible. Jesus still liked to eat fish when He'd been resurrected.
.. and Jesus would probably like chocolate.

 

[East of Eden]

There's no scripture saying there won't be.
Marriage, Oceans, and Night are the only non sin things that are said will not be in the age to come.. but I kinda wonder if the night and sea are symbols, like "no more sea" means no more pagan nations, because the sea is often used for gentile unbelieving nations. and similarly no more night wouldn't necessarily mean no more time when the sky is filled with stars, but rather no more spiritual darkness.
I'm not certain on those.
I hope there's still oceans and night. Some of my favorite creatures that God created are marine in nature (sea otters, dolphins and whales, manatees, sea lions and seals).. some of my favorite creatures are nocturnal (owls for one)

By rationale of there being no death it's also assumed there's no meat but.. some people say jokingly things like ribeye trees and what not.. and I think.. well.. it's possible. Jesus still liked to eat fish when He'd been resurrected.
.. and Jesus would probably like chocolate.

The heavenly banquet won't be merely symbolic.

If our earth can be beautiful imagine the new, perfected earth.

On the subject of your OP, and I want to say this delicately, you want to be careful not to make your earthly happiness, peace and joy conditional on an earthly circumstance. Those are things only God can provide, and in my life when I've made a false idol of other things God tends to take them away or not give them.

 

[Perfect_Peace]

Jamdoc, I'm not going to pretend I can "cure" your pain, but I will say there are some Bible verses that might give you real consolation.

First, consider three verses:

Psalm 16:11 - Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Along with that,

Ephesians 3:19 - And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Also,

Psalm 107:9 - For he satisfieth the longing soul, and filleth the hungry soul with goodness.

If two passages of scripture seem to contradict one another, the contradiction must be a problem with our interpretation, not with scripture. Now, with the words "fulness," "satisfieth," and "filleth," the quoted verses seem to say that we will experience ALL joy in Heaven. But Matthew 22:30 says we won't marry in Heaven, and Genesis and the Proverbs say it's good for man to marry (in this world, at least). How can we reconcile these statements? It seems to me there are two options:

1) The words "fulness," "satisfieth," and "filleth" don't actually mean we'll experience every joy in Heaven.

2) The pleasures of Heaven make conjugal bliss utterly REDUNDANT, in a way that we cannot even begin to fathom.

Option 1 seems unjustifiable to me; the whole body of scripture--including those three verses themselves--points to an afterlife that is quite literally "perfect." And you can't have perfection if any joy is lacking. That leaves Option 2.

Now, you've said you don't like Lewis's chocolate analogy, so how about this one: Imagine that throughout your whole life, the only type of hot dog you've ever eaten is a crappy convenience-store hot dog. But you really enjoy those hot dogs and they give you great satisfaction. (Feel free to choose a different type of food for this analogy if you prefer. ) One day, however, you're given a gourmet bratwurst. This is still a "hot dog," but for whatever reason it completely blows the old convenience-store frankfurter out of the water. From that point on, whenever you crave a hot dog, you'll be hoping for the gourmet type, NOT the worse type--though you will settle for that lesser choice if necessary.

Apply this scenario to sex, marriage, and Paradise. Marriage is the convenience-store hot dog, which will be replaced by a much better bratwurst (so to speak) in Heaven. Now, it's crucial to note that a gourmet hot dog is still a hot dog--it gives you the SAME joy, categorically speaking, as the inferior hot dog, just to a much greater degree. Similarly, we may be justified in assuming that in Heaven, God will give us a joy that is the SAME joy as that which we get from sex/marriage, but to such a higher degree and intensity that the old, earthly manifestation of that joy seems like an invariably inferior option. Thus, in Heaven, whenever we desire the joy that in this world manifests itself in marriage and sex, we will not even think to desire marriage or sex--in fact, it would be laughable to do so--because whatever form that joy takes in Heaven will be so much better than mere conjugal happiness. There would be no need or desire to settle for that inferior form of the joy, as Islam does when it posits 72 virgins. Rather, the joy that we currently know as marriage will be provided to us in a more glorious way--yet still be "the same joy"--in the next world. In that sense, the Christian afterlife is incomparably more desirable than the Islamic one, even for those of us who never get married.

Logically, I think this harmonization of scripture is satisfactory, and indeed necessary. The remaining difficulty is emotional rather than logical: it's hard to put our faith in such a joy because we don't know what it would look like. We can't understand how Jesus can possibly satisfy our desire for sexual joy (or, more precisely, "the joy that we call 'sexual'"), for obvious reasons. But this lack of understanding is only to be expected, as 1 Corinthians 2:9 says: Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. Indeed, this joy "passeth knowledge," as Paul says. We are also given indications that it is theoretically possible to overcome the emotional difficulty in this life: Isaiah 26:3 - Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. In trusting God's promise to give us all joy and thereby fill our every desire in the afterlife (not by simply cutting out our desire, but by truly satisfying our yearnings), we can look forward to redemption, set aside bothersome cares, and focus on living a godly life. Of course, no one can trust perfectly in Him all the time, but that doesn't mean we're not supposed to try.

I'll leave you with one more verse. This one doesn't address your central concern, but it does suggest marriage is not all that great:

Ecclesiastes 2:24 - There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour.

So there you have it--there is something better than sex.

I hope all this helps in some way. Praying for you, brother; you're not alone.