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Why does God make us renew our mind?

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by Ben Collyer, Jun 14, 2018.

  1. Ben Collyer

    Ben Collyer Well-Known Member

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    its a shame God couldnt just renew our minds at conversion. he did the hard part of saving us why make us jump through hoops to receive true freedom?
     
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  2. LovebirdsFlying

    LovebirdsFlying My husband drew this cartoon of me. Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    God could just pick me up and put me at the top of the mountain. But wouldn't I be a lot stronger and wiser for having made the climb?

    As parents, do we do for our children what they should be doing for themselves? No, because it isn't healthy for them.
     
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  3. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    After you believe, then confess what tiny, little you think
    does not measure up, then you are completely saved.
    It it safe to die at that point with no further changes.
     
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  4. Bobber

    Bobber Well-Known Member

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    Well people would know you've changed that's for sure. Haha No sense though lamenting over the fact that the universe doesn't function in just the way you'd like. Just get on board and cooperate. The faster you renew your mind the quicker you'll get to perfection (albeit not in this lifetime) Be patient. You'll get there! :oldthumbsup:
     
  5. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    And if you go the next 50 years with "no further changes;" how would anyone (including yourself) know that the salvation was actually real?

    Matthew 7:20
    So then, you will know them by their fruits.
     
  6. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    It is not about freedom. It is about fruit.

    John 15:2
    Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

    John 15:16
    You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

    Galatians 5:22
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.​
     
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  7. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I agree.

    I tend to think that was a part of the issue with Adam/Eve (i.e. no strength/experience with overcoming evil) ...
     
  8. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    That passage is just an offhand passage describing a possible observation.
    It is in no way definitive. And why would that concern me that you might
    be able to see sinners or saved?

    How does somebody else's standing with God impact mine? It don't.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2018
  9. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    I believe that the point of salvation is when you mind has already been renewed.......the old man has passed away.....all things are new......you have received the truth and are set free. You have tasted of the heavenly kingdom, after which, is it unlikely that one would ever turn away, and if by chance he does, will never be renewed again.....
     
  10. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    From that logic, Paul was not saved when he wrote Romans 7.

    "point of salvation" = the point when your eternal destiny changed from hell to heaven.
     
  11. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    OY? Really? Do you not understand 1 Cor 12? Rom 12?

    1 Cor 12:26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
     
  12. Ben Collyer

    Ben Collyer Well-Known Member

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    its also about freedom. Jesus came to set us free from our bondage including emotional bondage
     
  13. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Romans 6:18
    and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
    19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
     
  14. 4x4toy

    4x4toy Newbie Supporter

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    Revelation 1:6 We need to know what we're doing and why, right ? Shouldn't a good King or Priest need to know how to sweep the floor all the way up including sitting on the throne or teaching and serving others to be good ? Jesus did and he is Lord over all .. How else could you know him top to bottom to truly be thankful and share his inheritance .. What may seem unpleasant now that you go through you'll be thankful for later , trust me, no trust God ..
     
  15. miamited

    miamited Ted Supporter

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    Hi ben,

    Sure, I would agree that it would be a wonderful thing if God would just renew all the thoughts and desires of our mind the moment that we are born again. But, one thing that every new christian should quickly learn and understand is that He is God and we are not.

    For many thoughts and desires, I believe that God does help us to begin changing as we are born again. But our struggle with sin is a continuing process even after we are so born. This renewing of our mind strengthens us and gives us knowledge and understanding of this constant battle against the dark forces of this world. Friend, listen, God is so much wiser than you or I will ever hope to imagine to be. Knowing that, then I know that the way God has asked us to live and the things we are to be doing, such as this effort to renew our minds through the washing of His word, is a wise thing for us to be doing. It is also another opportunity for us to show that we really have had a change of heart and desire to know more about Him and to live as He has asked us to live.

    I believe that there are a lot of things that God asks of us that are a kind of test for us. I think back on the day when God asked Abraham to take his son and sacrifice him. It seems apparent, after the fact, that God never actually intended to have Abraham sacrifice his son, but rather it was a test of Abraham's faith. In fact, God says to Abraham, “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.” By the bolded words, it would seem clear that this was a test of Abraham's faith. Could it be that many of the things that God asks of us, once we are born again, are things that offer proof, not only to God but also to ourselves, that our faith is real.

    Finally, just as in all training, we practice and practice and practice and become better athletes or accountants or doctors. Similarly, by continuing to renew our minds with the truths found in God's word, we become better and more faithful followers of His Son.

    God bless,
    In Christ, ted
     
  16. Doug Melven

    Doug Melven Well-Known Member

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    Because He doesn't take away our freewill.
    He chose to give us life, but we must reach out and take what He has offered.
    Just as God wouldn't spoon feed Adam and Eve, so He will not with us either.
     
  17. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "and be renewed in the spirit of your mind," (Ephesians 4:23)

    I see this means how the Holy Spirit renews our mind to be more and more like the mind of Jesus. So, this is about our spiritual character, not only what we think. Our real nature has a lot to do with what and how we think; so just changing ideas is not enough.

    And we are told to do this, but this means with the Holy Spirit and how God is able >

    "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God," (2 Corinthians 3:5)
     
  18. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to have my mind wiped out aswell . God uses our previous experiences to preach to people who were / are in the same situation like drug addict for 20 years saved by Christ can give testimony to other drugs addicts .
     
  19. dreadnought

    dreadnought Lip service isn't really service. Supporter

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    Perhaps he doesn't equate learning to accept responsibility with jumping through hoops.
     
  20. Serving Zion

    Serving Zion Seek First His Kingdom & Righteousness

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    It is a complex matter (Matthew 13:26-28). Salvation is about getting the mind straightened out after it has been made crooked (John 17:3, Mark 13:22), and then staying that way until the end (Matthew 24:12-13). In order for that to happen, we need to be made free from the corrupted thinking through knowing the truth (John 15:3), and the only real enemy we have against us, is our flesh (James 1:14-15. Galatians 6:8, Galatians 5:16-21) - and there is a personal adversary in the world that we must not yield to (Matthew 25:41, Proverbs 25:26): the spirit that operates in the sons of disobedience (Ephesians 2:1-3, 1 John 4:4, Romans 6:16-18).

    Now the problem we have (thanks to the ones of 2 Peter 2:1-2, that is Matthew 13:25), is that there is nowadays very few people who have their knowledge of the gospel straightened out in truth (Matthew 23:13) - the majority of Christians have some corruption in their view of the gospel, and whenever they are speaking upon the basis of those corrupted views, they are representing a spirit that is not The Holy Spirit (John 14:17, 1 John 4:1). You will know them by their fruits (1 Corinthians 13:6, 2 Timothy 3:12-13).

    As a result of this, what you are asking for is to receive the fullness of the gospel at the time of conversion, by someone who is representing The Holy Spirit without corruption so that no corruption is included in the anointing - well, after 2,000 years of apostasy having permeated the entire world, where do you think you might possibly go to find that?

    .. but it is enough for Jesus anyway, that a person receives conviction and repents of the sin that has kept them from their following of Him into greater knowledge of the truth (Romans 12:2), and then He is able to keep building upon that .. but as you know that not every person is capable of representing the truth, and indeed many speak falsely in His name (1 Timothy 4:1-2). If a person, who once was converted, is then lured away from following Him by having been deceived (Matthew 7:15), then they are again the one who has gone wandering (Luke 15:4-10).

    For this reason, St. Paul realised that the apostasy was getting so out of hand, that he wrote such as Philippians 2:12 and Philippians 2:20. This is our present state too, btw, as we only need to ask the first person walking down the street to find stories of churches who act not of justice and love, but of the devil (John 10:10) .. yet do these people ever come together and support each other? (Ecclesiastes 4:9-12) .. and why is it that they don't?

    So, that is our situation now.

    Awake, O sword, against My shepherd, against the man who is My companion! It is a declaration of Adonai-Tzva’ot. Strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered! I will turn My hand against the little ones.
    Zechariah 13:7

    An accomplished woman who can find?
    Her value is far beyond rubies.
    Proverbs 31:10

    So whoever wants to be the world’s friend becomes God’s enemy.
    James 4:4

    But an hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth. Yes, the Father wants such people to worship Him.
    John 4:23

    .. Nice to see you again, btw :) I saw a blog entry this morning that reminded me to go find out how you are doing :wave:
     
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