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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Ethics & Morality
Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less
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<blockquote data-quote="zippy2006" data-source="post: 76873019" data-attributes="member: 342410"><p>Your argument presupposes that idea, and has no force without it. For example, in <a href="https://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-does-god-allow-suffering-bear-in-mind-those-that-dont-need-a-perfect-distraction-suffer-less.8255202/page-28#post-76866714" target="_blank">#548</a> you conclude, "God chose to create an inferior product." Yet given the argument you provide such a conclusion is not valid. It depends on the invisible premise that one who does evil has a desire to do evil. From this you reason that since humans do evil God must have instilled a desire to do evil. <em>You do not admit the possibility that evil has occurred because of an ability but not because of a desire</em>.</p><p></p><p>So yeah, I'm pretty sure what I said at the outset holds. You are denying the idea of free will, albeit in a roundabout way. Your argument which moves from the existence of evil, to the desire for evil, to the necessity of evil is a denial of the possibility of free will. The person who believes in free will can point to the ability to do evil and the existence of evil without affirming the necessity of evil. You think the necessity of evil follows from the existence of evil (and the desire to do evil); yet this conclusion contradicts free will. If we cannot not-do evil then we do not have free will.</p><p></p><p>(N.B. Theologically you are mixing up the doctrines of free will and Original Sin)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And this is simply your argument in fuller form. It isn't a different argument than you've been giving all along.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't say that a desire to do evil is necessary for free will. That's what you've been saying all along, albeit in the fine print. I'm just pointing this out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="zippy2006, post: 76873019, member: 342410"] Your argument presupposes that idea, and has no force without it. For example, in [URL='https://www.christianforums.com/threads/why-does-god-allow-suffering-bear-in-mind-those-that-dont-need-a-perfect-distraction-suffer-less.8255202/page-28#post-76866714']#548[/URL] you conclude, "God chose to create an inferior product." Yet given the argument you provide such a conclusion is not valid. It depends on the invisible premise that one who does evil has a desire to do evil. From this you reason that since humans do evil God must have instilled a desire to do evil. [I]You do not admit the possibility that evil has occurred because of an ability but not because of a desire[/I]. So yeah, I'm pretty sure what I said at the outset holds. You are denying the idea of free will, albeit in a roundabout way. Your argument which moves from the existence of evil, to the desire for evil, to the necessity of evil is a denial of the possibility of free will. The person who believes in free will can point to the ability to do evil and the existence of evil without affirming the necessity of evil. You think the necessity of evil follows from the existence of evil (and the desire to do evil); yet this conclusion contradicts free will. If we cannot not-do evil then we do not have free will. (N.B. Theologically you are mixing up the doctrines of free will and Original Sin) And this is simply your argument in fuller form. It isn't a different argument than you've been giving all along. I don't say that a desire to do evil is necessary for free will. That's what you've been saying all along, albeit in the fine print. I'm just pointing this out. [/QUOTE]
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Why does God allow suffering? Bear in mind, those that don't need a perfect distraction, suffer less
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