Why do you think God allowed the temple to be knocked down?

[Hentenza]

Abraham received the promise before he was circumcised. Read Gen 12.

Don't ignore the remainder of Gen. 17. Do you deny that Abraham is the father of Isaac who is the father of Jacob who is the father of the heads of the 12 tribes of Israel? Is the covenant to Abraham not for his descendants?

 

[RND]

Don't ignore the remainder of Gen. 17. Do you deny that Abraham is the father of Isaac who is the father of Jacob who is the father of the heads of the 12 tribes of Israel?

Nope, don't deny that! I'm merely pointing out that Abraham was a gentile when he received the promises of God.

Is the covenant to Abraham not for his descendants?

Nope, to his "seed" not "seeds".

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 

[RND]

In a way.

Really?

All will be saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, however, Israel (nationally) will remain apostate until the time of the gentiles is over.

Um, everyone is saved by grace through faith.

Yes, it does.

Clearly an unscriptural view.

Huh? Do you deny that there is unfulfilled prophesy regarding God's purpose for Israel?

Yes! All those promises were fulfilled in Christ!

2Cr 1:20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Some factions are. Most are not.

It only takes a small hole in a boat to eventually sink it.

 

[benedictaoo]

Actually we are His temple by His Spirit that dwells in us.

there's no contradiction however we are talking about a actual presence- God was present in the holy of holies.

He's not there anymore. He is in the Eucharist. really, really there.

The OP asked why- I said why.

We are not taking about the indwelling- we are not talking about God's transcending Spirit that's everywhere at once but God's real true presence.

He was present in the Holy of Holies, now he is present in the Tabernacle, in the Eucharist.

The new and everlasting covenant.

 

[Yab Yum]

there's no contradiction however we are talking about a actual presence- God was present in the holy of holies.

He's not there anymore. He is in the Eucharist. really, really there.

The OP asked why- I said why.

We are not taking about the indwelling- we are not talking about God's transcending Spirit that's everywhere at once but God's real true presence.

He was present in the Holy of Holies, now he is present in the Tabernacle, in the Eucharist.

The new and everlasting covenant.

 

[benedictaoo]

We are temples of God through the In dwelling of God's Holy Spirit.

The Spirit: Dwelling in Individuals

The Spirit: Dwelling in Individuals


Through this indwelling, however, people become "temples of God" (of the triune God) because it is "the Spirit of God [who] dwells in" them, as the Apostle reminds the Corinthians (1 Cor 3:16). God is holy and makes holy. Paul points out shortly after this: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God?" (1 Cor 6:19). Therefore the indwelling of the Holy Spirit implies a particular consecration of the whole human person (whose bodily dimension Paul emphasizes) similar to a temple. This consecration is sanctifying. It is the very essence of the saving grace through which the person is able to participate in God's trinitarian life. Thus an internal source of holiness opens up within the person, from which comes life "according to the Spirit," as Paul says in the Letter to the Romans (8:9): "You are not in the flesh; on the contrary, you are in the Spirit, if only the Spirit of God dwells in you." Here is the basis for the hope of bodily resurrection because "if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will give life to your mortal bodies also, through his Spirit that dwells in you" (Rom 8:11).

I'm talking about His presence now in the tabernacle as before He was present in the Holy of Holies.

 

[MamaZ]

there's no contradiction however we are talking about a actual presence- God was present in the holy of holies.

He's not there anymore. He is in the Eucharist. really, really there.

The OP asked why- I said why.

We are not taking about the indwelling- we are not talking about God's transcending Spirit that's everywhere at once but God's real true presence.

He was present in the Holy of Holies, now he is present in the Tabernacle, in the Eucharist.

The new and everlasting covenant.

He is really really there in His believers by His Spirit. I see no where that Gods presence lives in a peice of bread and a sip of wine.

 

[benedictaoo]

I am glad you like me.
But it seems like you are overeacting in a rather personal manner.Others have offered an objective answer,without a personality critique.

The post is a question about a historical event.

Okay.

it was because that covenant, that religion was no longer. The Jews made it clear to God- they did not want the gig... Jesus was the stone that these builders rejected- so they were out. Judaism is a empty religion now.

That's why the Romans came in, in 70 ad and tore it up and they dispersed and they were like Nomads roaming all around trying to keep their Judaism in tact as best they could but God dispersed them, broke them up.

They only returned recently to Israel to stake a claim to a religion (and land) that has been empty since the day the world change. Since the day God tore the veil in two.

 

[benedictaoo]

He is really really there in His believers by His Spirit. I see no where that Gods presence lives in a peice of bread and a sip of wine.

He does really really live in Spirit but also, in addition, substantially so.

God was present in the Holy of Holies in a special unique way- now In Christ- He is present to us in a special unique way. In the Eucharist.

You can see anywhere? Jhon 6. Last Supper- it's pretty clear.

 

[Frogster]

Don't ignore the remainder of Gen. 17. Do you deny that Abraham is the father of Isaac who is the father of Jacob who is the father of the heads of the 12 tribes of Israel? Is the covenant to Abraham not for his descendants?

Well..yea,but just like how Hebrews says the new cov was for Israel,and Judah,yet we know gentiles are in the new cov too,as far as tribal mentioning goes.

It all culminated in the seed of promise,gal 3,and there is no more jew or greek,and not all israel is israel,Rom 9,then to me,it should be one way or another,either all the promises are for all,or not.

I want a condo by the sea!

 

[bugkiller]

So God has a separate purpose for the modern, secular nation/state of Israel and a separate plan for everyone else? Doesn't that make God a respecter of persons? Does God have a separate plan based on what blood courses through a persons veins?

The modern movement of Christian Zionism is indeed attempting to influence political power in order to obtain what they believe is a scriptural view.

So are you jealous?

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

That's right. Can't kill. Can't steal. Can't Covet....

If you get pardoned for a speeding ticket does that pardon allow you to steal?

False argument. Speeding and stealing have nothingtowith each other.

bugkiller

 

[Yarddog]

I'm talking about His presence now in the tabernacle as before He was present in the Holy of Holies.

Are you talking about the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist or God the Father?

We are Temples of God because his Holy Spirit lives within us. Jesus is seated at the right hand of God the Father in the Most Holy place of which the Jewish Temple was a copy of. Jesus is also present in the Eucharist but this is not the same as the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which makes us living Temples.

 

[Hentenza]

Really?

Yep, really.

Um, everyone is saved by grace through faith.

Cool.

Clearly an unscriptural view.

Clearly a scriptural view. There, we are at an impasse. Again. lol

Yes! All those promises were fulfilled in Christ!

2Cr 1:20 For all the promises of God in him [are] yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

Context would be nice.

It only takes a small hole in a boat to eventually sink it.

LOL!!! Better look at your own boat.

 

[MamaZ]

He does really really live in Spirit but also, in addition, substantially so.

God was present in the Holy of Holies in a special unique way- now In Christ- He is present to us in a special unique way. In the Eucharist.

You can see anywhere? Jhon 6. Last Supper- it's pretty clear.

Well what you see and what Scripture is saying differs I believe. But then that is a different thread.

 

[Hentenza]

Well..yea,but just like how Hebrews says the new cov was for Israel,and Judah,yet we know gentiles are in the new cov too,as far as tribal mentioning goes.

Actually we, gentiles, are grafted into the olive tree not the other way around. We are in the time of the gentiles.

It all culminated in the seed of promise,gal 3,and there is no more jew or greek,and not all israel is israel,Rom 9,then to me,it should be one way or another,either all the promises are for all,or not.

Romans 9,10, and 11 are sequential of Paul's thoughts and teachings regarding Israel. Romans 9 teaches about Israel's national rejection of the messiah and the state of Israel. Romans 10 teaches about Israel's rejection of the gospel and their need for the gospel. Romans 11 teaches about future Israel and it's national deliverance. Gal 3 teaches about faith for salvation not the law and it is unrelated to Romans 9, 10, or 11.

I want a condo by the sea!

Works for me. I'll take the unit next to yours.

 

[Hentenza]

Nope, don't deny that! I'm merely pointing out that Abraham was a gentile when he received the promises of God.

LOL!! everyone was a "gentile" prior to Gen. 17. Does that makes God's covenants with Abraham, including the covenant of land, for the gentiles? not.

Nope, to his "seed" not "seeds".

Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Keep reading.

17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Context would be nice.

I guess you ignored this part of Gen. 17.

7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

The land of Canaan was given to Israel as an everlasting covenant. Israel has yet to occupy all of the land promised, therefore, there is a future component to this covenant.

Also notice the last part of verse 8. God will be their God. This is repeated several more times in the OT and is part of the future prophesy depicted in Heb. 8.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

God always keeps His covenants. If God say that He will be their God then it will happen.

 

[catzrfluffy]

Because "It is finished." (John 19:30) ooo, a reference to the other thread. How exciting.

 

[RND]

LOL!! everyone was a "gentile" prior to Gen. 17. Does that makes God's covenants with Abraham, including the covenant of land, for the gentiles? not.

Everyone is still a gentile until they accept the Passover Lamb and have their hearts circumcised.

Keep reading.

17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Context would be nice.

Which law was instituted after sin? The Ten Commandments or the ceremonial law?

I guess you ignored this part of Gen. 17.

7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. 8 Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

Not at all. Who established the covenant? The "seed". Christ.

The land of Canaan was given to Israel as an everlasting covenant. Israel has yet to occupy all of the land promised, therefore, there is a future component to this covenant.

Nope. Israel was typology for the world and Jesus established the covenant in Himself through His sacrifice on the cross.

Also notice the last part of verse 8. God will be their God. This is repeated several more times in the OT and is part of the future prophesy depicted in Heb. 8.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

God always keeps His covenants. If God say that He will be their God then it will happen.

God also adopted people to be part of His covenant even if there are folks that wish to reject Him. Remember God can make children out of stones (there's an allegory there!) if He has to!

 

[benedictaoo]

Well what you see and what Scripture is saying differs I believe. But then that is a different thread.

scripture say it verbatim... lol.. ah, you guys... God love ya.