5. and 6. These also do not relate to your claims about atheists. They seek to show theists in a better light.
And they are bunk.
When you remove the donating that the religious do to their own organizations, there is little difference between the religious and the non-religious in their generosity. The same applies to volunteering hours.
However, this again says NOTHING about your claims regarding atheists having no morality, or that "they don't want to apply higher morality or ethics in their lives."
Both of these directly relate to Atheists . And they do show Theists in a better light. They are only 'bunk' to someone who the truth is being told about. There is a stark difference between what atheists and CHristians financially give AND the amount of time and energy they donate for humanitarian projects ; can you name me just One atheist based Organization that assisted when Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans ? Can you name any atheist based Organizations that go into Nursing Homes to make friends with the infirmed and dying to offer them comfort ? What has atheism done to try to promote a more civil moral American Society ? What power does Atheism have and can offer a person so that Person can live an exemplary moral and selfless life ?
Finally, lets wrapup our chat by examining the actual formal affirmations found in the atheistic Humanist Manifestos to see how the general Atheist Community has played them out in American Society (taken from a CF formal debate I had recently) :
"Having established Secular Humanism as a Religion, Philosophy, and Worldview..., we can now consider a few constructs of Secular Humanism in light of the effect they have had on Society based on its thrust toward 'Man Being The Measure of all Things' and the fundamental psychology that what One firmly believes in, commits to, and follows has a direct bearing how that Person/Group behaves privately and publicly ":
1. Manifesto #1. Affirmations 1 and 2 . says all of reality comes about by the processes of natural evolution without a shred of intelligent input. RESPONSE: Secular Humanists are FORCED to believe despite any credible scientific evidence that our Universe having highly personal, intelligent, information effects came about by a non personal, non intelligent, unwilled, non informational original Source which led to accidental formation of galaxies and planets , accidental first life on earth, accidental graduation of a pond scum protozoa to human being via unwilled accidental materialism and naturalism thru blind random chances ,ad infinitum . This disturbing and illogical worldview was thoroughly dissected and shown for its irrationality and utter impossibility in this recent CF Formal Debate :
http://www.christianforums.com/t7813978/ with nearly all of my followup questions highlighted in bold black letters going completely unanswered or hardly addressed because there aren't any cogent answers available . If a Person believes their existence is without ultimate meaning/purpose , that their dignity and worth is on the order of an insignificant amoeba , morality being optional and determined by the Individual, and they are here for nothing but survival and going on feeding frenzies of available pleasures ........ what are the logical widespread implications and ramifications of such a practiced religion to a Society that is all about SELF ? The chart in this site will help us see some of the implications of a daily practiced religion where morality is optional or undesirable :
http://www.godandscience.org/evoluti...lications.html . What can we expect from a huge number of Citizens in any given Country that take such a view of morality ? Would we expect them to rule-bend , have disregard for laws to suit themselves, and do what was 'right' in their own eyes despite proven consequences to the action ? Such is the slippery slope of religions that elevate Oneself to Master thereby encouraging narcissism . Five unbiased independent scientific Studies considered how atheistic Secular Humanists themselves rated moral principles and how the general populace view the public behavior of this particular Group --- the results are found in this recent CF Debate clearly showing the disdain of making Man the Measure of all Things :
http://www.christianforums.com/t7805623/ . And, I would appreciate Freodin not making Me out being villainous toward Atheists as I simply report the facts that have been determined by unbiased Studies of which I am not affiliated with ; I do not hate professed Atheists , and in fact have atheist acquaintences which I routinely get together with socially and usually enjoy their company so long as they remain controlled and considerate of God in their speech. Finally, here is what the Secular Humanist of the Year had to say on the implications of Evolutionary Principles and Morality ; Prof. Paul Kurtz from his book The Humanist Alternative, sums up the end result this way: “If man is a product of evolution, one species among others, in a universe without purpose, then man’s option is to live for himself”. Given the massive destructive fallout from Man making up his own rules, Kurtz certainly got it right .
The popular Atheist Voltaire said : "If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." So,.lets test Voltaires claim by going further with Secular Humanism on a sociological level ............
2. Manifesto #2. Affirmation 2. says : " Promises of immortal salvation or fear of eternal damnation are both illusory and harmful (to Individuals and Society ; rather, Science affirms that the human species is an emergence from natural evolutionary forces .Neither has science found evidence that life survives death. Humans should look after the welfare of this life, not the next) " . RESPONSE : This affirmation is completely fallacious because real Science based on reality shows the necessity of a personal intelligent Creator without a shred of chance that chance, accidents, time, and non intelligent Materials thru Naturalism could produce ANY SORT of a life form with its inherent biological information equivalent to 1,000 volumes of encyclopedias (DNA instructional information for the tiniest of amoebas ) . As for life after death, the historical evidence shows that the New Testament of the Bible is THE MOST accurate historical document of all ancient literary works and it attests to the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ ... the same Jesus that claimed to be the One to give immortal salvation thru his personal atoning sacrifice and taught approx. 25% of the time on eternity apart from God in a conscious state (Hell) . The only 'fear' that comes into play are for those who don't want to take advantage of this free undeserved gift because Secular Humanism suits them better. For those who receive, love, and have made Jesus their King and Savior, the promise of 'God not giving us a spirit of fear but of power, love, and a sound mind' is the truth the Christian lives by. If Jesus Christ is 'illusory' , then we have to throw out every single ancient literary work because all of them have far far less historical evidence and eye witness testimony than the reporting New Testament. Lastly, besides the many eye witnesses to Christ surviving death from a physical resurrection and others He resurrected , in more modern times there has been many thousands of people who have been flatlined and pronounced dead yet they have come back to life in a fully restorative state . One such individual (Val Thomas) layed flatlined in a hospital for some 17 hours before coming back to life again. Others have slipped away and have been brought back only to report of such objects as a pair of gym shoes on a certain section of the roof. MANY firsthand accounts have been witnessed by Surgeons who did the ressusitations that have written reports and books on the experiences ; one such book is called To Hell and Back by Dr. Maurice Rawlings , an atheist Surgeon who became a CHristian as a result of these experiences recording Patients words at the moment they came back. As for concentrating on this life alone getting all the gusto One can accumulate in the allotted time left by snubbing God, this is the greatest mistake One could ever make. Jesus said : 'There is a way that seems right to a man, but it ends in destruction (severe regret)' . The way that seems right is for a Person to live making himself the center of the Universe and partaking in any pursuit he desires whether right or wrong (of course...everything is 'right' to such a deceived Person if he deems so) .
3. Manifesto #2. Affirmation 3. says : " We affirm that moral values derive their source from human experience. Ethics is autonomous and situational, needing no theological or ideological sanction (Humanists base their values system on the here and now and values have no suprahuman basis or goal) " . RESPONSE : Therefore, doing what thou wilt is the whole of the law as Satanist Allister Crowley said . With no objective moral standards , there is no objective difference between a Mother Theresa and an Adolph Hitler, for, both truly believed they were doing the correct thing. This Humanist Affirmation is perhaps THE greatest detriment to any civil society because anything goes and nothing is objectively wrong to do concerning actions, talk, behavior, lifestyles, motives. Freethinkers (Secular Humanists) find this refreshingly liberating because afterall, its a life with no holes barred . This makes such things as walk in abortion on demand due to sexual hedonism backfiring , euthanasia, homosexuality , inappropriate behavior with animals, hookup sex , incest, rape, et al.... optional . Afterall, any of these could be seen as permissible in the Mind of a moral relativist.
4. Manifesto #2, Affirmation 4 says : "Reason and intelligence are the most effective instruments that humankind possesses (a combination of critical intelligence and human caring is the best hope for resolving human problems) " . RESPONSE : Very ironic that things like reason, logic, intelligence , love, caring, etc.... are championed when you cant get ANY of these things from an atheistic Materialistic Worldview . If Materialism is true, then reason itself is impossible. For if the mental processes are nothing but chemical reactions in the brain, then there is no reason to believe that anything is really true including Ones theory of materialism. Chemicals cant evaluate whether or not a theory is true. Chemicals don't reason, they react. Reason itself is impossible in a world governed only by chemical and physical forces . Further, the only reason why anyone would truly care about anothers wellbeing is because they feel a moral obligation / moral oughtness to do so ... but why feel this way when The Person is simply made up of accidental compilations of atoms ? Atoms don't care, atoms don't think, atoms don't reason , they don't consider whats logical or right, and compassion and caring cant come from accidental atoms and raw chemicals. This is just one more example of the seriously flawed religion of Secular Humanism ---- it isn't even justifiable let alone its constructs being sound.
5. Manifesto #2. Affirmation 5 says : " The preciousness and dignity of the Individual Person is a central humanist value (individual freedom of choice should be increased) " . RESPONSE : Weve already seen thru previous affirmations of this religion that Man was just a random cosmic accident living in a random accidental Cosmos ; an animal that graduated from the Forest just looking to fulfill his/her own needs and survivalbility . How do we get preciousness and dignity for a Human Being from a long line of accidental mutations that ultimately originated from pond slime ? Further, because our existence is accidental , we are just a random compilation of atoms including our Brain and thus our thoughts.....why should we place ANY kind of trust in the affirmation that the Individual has preciousness and dignity since this formulated idea came from the thoughts of an accidental Brain ? It makes no sense to appeal to ANY kind of positive description toward Something that was utterly accidental. Its just one more example of hypocrisy with this religion.
6. Manifesto #2. Affirmation 6 says : " In the area of sexuality, we believe that intolerant attitudes often cultivated by orthodox religions and puritanical cultures, unduly repress sexual conduct . The Authors affirm rights to birth control, abortion, divorce , and any form of sexual behavior between two consenting adults. Individuals should be allowed to express their sexual proclivities and pursue their lifestyles as desired" . RESPONSE : Sounds so wonderful that such freedom should be granted in the area of sexuality...afterall, why shouldnt Mankind treat their sexuality in an unrestrained limited manner since globally we are just a bunch of graduated Forest Animals (?) What a shame it has been for western countries in particular to embrace the mendacious teaching that our sexuality doesn't carry with it any sacredness, holiness, or moral duty to preserve it as a gift bestowed upon us from our Creator . Today , instead of treating our sexuality responsibly and practicing great self control to honor ourselves and others in accordance to Gods loving and protective mandates, we groom our Children in the ways of irresponsible Secular Humanism so Boys become Sexual Perannahs for ego inflation and Girls wanting to become Tramps by using their sexuality for power , control, attention, and to become popular with the opposite sex. As a result, our Crisis Pregnancy Centers across America are busting at the seams with children pregnant with children as are the Killing Mills cranking out some 4,000 murders of developing Human Beings because 'Mom' demands her Humanism liberty over life itself (so much for Affirmation #5 above with the hypocritical adage of 'preciousness and dignity for ALL HUMANS as a central value' ----- that would be ALL Humans except the scientifically confirmed Humans who are the most innocent and defenseless of us all while developing in the womb).
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