Why do you need an eternal reward as a bribe to be good?

[LunarPie]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good. We wouldn't survive very long as a species if we were all killing each other off. Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

 

[bhsmte]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good. We wouldn't survive very long as a species if we were all killing each other off. Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

Not only that, but the fear of eternal torment, if you don't believe and follow along.

 

[KitKatMatt]

I am good because I dislike it when people are bad to me or anyone I know.

That's a selfish reason, and selfishness is a good thing. I am good because I like to be treated good and for good things to happen to me. It makes me happy to see good things and treatment happen to other people, especially if I can help.

Honestly, I never saw the reward/punishment thing of Heaven/Hell to be motivating me to do good. It just motivated me to fear everything (because if you do it wrong, HELL!).

 

[Archie the Preacher]

Commandment One is: I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.

Once that commandment is understood, all the rest will progressively make sense. If that command is NOT understood, then none of the other concepts will make sense either.

 

[Euler]

Commandment One is: I, the Lord, am your God, who brought you from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery.

Once that commandment is understood, all the rest will progressively make sense. If that command is NOT understood, then none of the other concepts will make sense either.

<Staff Edit>

There is no evidence that the Jews were ever enslaved in Egypt. In fact, all indications are that they were never there.

 

[Euler]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good. We wouldn't survive very long as a species if we were all killing each other off. Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

Good points and good questions.

The interesting thing is that the religious will often claim that their worship of a god has nothing to do with promises of life after death - they will claim that it's just all about a 'loving relationship'.

It's disingenuous. The religious fear death more than non-believers do, they fight strongly against euthanasia and abortion, they are more likely to slip into a variety of mental illnesses over the death of a loved one, they desperately cling to the tales of near-death experiences indicating something 'beyond the grave'.

 

[JackofSpades]

It's disingenuous. The religious fear death more than non-believers do...

I think it can be either way, depending on what kind of religiousness it is. When I was a fundamentalist Christian, I was afraid of death because there was no way to tell am I going to go to heaven or not. Now I'm still religious and I do have some vague beliefs about afterlife but I'm not really scared of the death. Currently I'm much more afraid of getting old than of death.

Talking about fear of death, I have to say that Christian theology is a masterpiece of undermining ones sense of security about afterlife, on one hand it promises a free salvation without works and on the other hand it keeps questioning the authenticity of persons salvation at every turn if they do, say or think something that doesn't fit the Christian standards. The double-faced nature of it makes sure that nobody actually ever gets any final answer about their status and will always remain in a state of doubt.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good?

I actually don't know any official Christian teaching from any church that suggests heaven is a reward for doing good. From Catholicism to Orthodoxy to Lutheranism to Baptists Christianity insists that our reconciliation and life with God in the world to come is an act of grace, a gift, something that is not awarded to us for doing the right things, but that God graciously and kindly takes us and accepting us brings us to Him.

That said, a lot of Christians are theologically illiterate.

Isn't doing good in itself enough?

Absolutely. And that's the only reason to do good works. Because good works are good.

In Lutheranism we have what's called the Law and Gospel Dialectic, in short this says that what God commands is Law and since we are sinners we never truly act obedient to God's commands but fail regularly; and what God gives freely, what God promises, is Gospel. In essence: The Law in declaring what is good and right reveals that we have failed to be good and right; the Gospel is God's promise and word to us that He has forgiven us, that He loves us, and that in Jesus we are accounted righteous.

I bring this up only to really discuss another point. What Lutheranism tends to refer to as Coram Deo and Coram Hominibus. That is, "before God" and "before mankind". Think of it as a vertical and horizontal, the Coram Deo is vertical and the Coram Hominibus is horizontal. Before God (Coram Deo)the only thing that should truly matter to us is the Gospel, God's gracious kindness freely given to all through Jesus in which and by which we are forgiven and restored. Before our fellow man (Coram Hominibus) we should consider all that matters is the Law, what God commands us to do.

In essence this means that I do good works because while they don't improve my position before God, I don't receive any reward from God for good works, but good works do benefit my neighbor. It's my neighbor who needs bread to eat, water to drink, medicine to tend his wounds, clothes to cover him, shelter over his head, and an arm of friendship and kindness. God doesn't need my good works, but my neighbor does.

The only reason to do good works is because they help my neighbor, because good works are good and thus should be done. I receive nothing from God for doing good. Indeed my good works compared to God's commandments reveals my total failure; and my good works in light of what God has already done for me in Jesus renders at best redundant.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Sketcher]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good. We wouldn't survive very long as a species if we were all killing each other off. Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

If it's instinctual, how did the instinct get there?

I really don't need the promise of a reward in Heaven to do good much of the time, but in extenuating circumstances, it helps. I would say my chief motivation to do good comes from my God-given purpose to do good.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Not only that, but the fear of eternal torment, if you don't believe and follow along.

I know that the fear of hell is something some, maybe even a lot of Christians have--I certainly dealt with it earlier in my life when I was still an Evangelical.

That said, it's a complete non-factor for me anymore. For one, I don't exactly share the same view of Hell as I had been raised with (nor do I of Heaven), but it's just not something I particularly spend any time thinking about.

I neither live my life in fear of hell, or trying to reach heaven. I would consider both to be fairly alien ways of thinking. I'm a Christian because I believe the Christian Gospel. I want to do good because I want to do good, I want to love people because I want to love people. I think loving people and being kind are innately valuable in and of themselves and that is how I want to live my life, not out of any fear of hell or any desire to reach heaven, but just because it's what I believe is good and right. Because people matter.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BornAgainBrian]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good. We wouldn't survive very long as a species if we were all killing each other off. Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

For me, it is not being good which earns me reward. Spiritual rebirth by grace through faith is why I have an eternity with God: it is not a reward for my actions. In fact, without the aforementioned rebirth, being good as a rule is impossible. It is that very spiritual rebirth which makes it possible to be good.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

If it's instinctual, how did the instinct get there?

Seems likely that it evolved.

 

[Strathos]

I actually don't know any official Christian teaching from any church that suggests heaven is a reward for doing good. From Catholicism to Orthodoxy to Lutheranism to Baptists Christianity insists that our reconciliation and life with God in the world to come is an act of grace, a gift, something that is not awarded to us for doing the right things, but that God graciously and kindly takes us and accepting us brings us to Him.

That said, a lot of Christians are theologically illiterate.



Absolutely. And that's the only reason to do good works. Because good works are good.

In Lutheranism we have what's called the Law and Gospel Dialectic, in short this says that what God commands is Law and since we are sinners we never truly act obedient to God's commands but fail regularly; and what God gives freely, what God promises, is Gospel. In essence: The Law in declaring what is good and right reveals that we have failed to be good and right; the Gospel is God's promise and word to us that He has forgiven us, that He loves us, and that in Jesus we are accounted righteous.

I bring this up only to really discuss another point. What Lutheranism tends to refer to as Coram Deo and Coram Hominibus. That is, "before God" and "before mankind". Think of it as a vertical and horizontal, the Coram Deo is vertical and the Coram Hominibus is horizontal. Before God (Coram Deo)the only thing that should truly matter to us is the Gospel, God's gracious kindness freely given to all through Jesus in which and by which we are forgiven and restored. Before our fellow man (Coram Hominibus) we should consider all that matters is the Law, what God commands us to do.

In essence this means that I do good works because while they don't improve my position before God, I don't receive any reward from God for good works, but good works do benefit my neighbor. It's my neighbor who needs bread to eat, water to drink, medicine to tend his wounds, clothes to cover him, shelter over his head, and an arm of friendship and kindness. God doesn't need my good works, but my neighbor does.

The only reason to do good works is because they help my neighbor, because good works are good and thus should be done. I receive nothing from God for doing good. Indeed my good works compared to God's commandments reveals my total failure; and my good works in light of what God has already done for me in Jesus renders at best redundant.

-CryptoLutheran

Very well-said!

 

[JackofSpades]

I actually don't know any official Christian teaching from any church that suggests heaven is a reward for doing good.

If works really had nothing to do with salvation, no Christian would tell other people (including other Christians) that if they keep sinning, they go to hell. But they do that all the time, starting with Jesus and Paul.

Theological language like "works have nothing to do with salvation" can be deceptive, practise of average Christians seems to point to conclusion that they do believe that works have alot to do with salvation. Especially work called "not living in sin".

 

[Return to Skepticism]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good. We wouldn't survive very long as a species if we were all killing each other off. Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

One of two sources, I'd say. Either they grow up with the Heaven vs. Hell carrot dangled in front of them, or they are so disillusioned by what life has to offer, that the thought of a balancing scale of good to heaven and bad to hell seems like a good idea.

 

[Inkachu]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good. We wouldn't survive very long as a species if we were all killing each other off. Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

I don't need a reward or a bribe, nor do I think most Christians think that way, either. I'd be just as motivated to follow God and do good if Heaven were nothing more than sitting at His feet forever. Because His presence is all the reward any of us should need or desire.

And as others have posted, Heaven is not "a reward for doing good", it's a free gift for all who believe in Christ's sacrifice for their sins. There is talk in Scripture of rewards once we get to Heaven, depending on how we lived on earth, but I don't think that's what the OP is referring to.

I also chuckle at how quickly the non-Christians jump to respond to a question that is not aimed at them, just so they can insert a few anti-Christian bribes into the thread. Never fails!

 

[High Fidelity]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good. We wouldn't survive very long as a species if we were all killing each other off. Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

I can't speak for others, but I don't do it because I think there is a reward at the end of it.

I do it because regardless of what my faith tells me about what happens to me after I die, I don't think that what happens in this life is irrelevant or immaterial.

 

[BornAgainBrian]

If works really had nothing to do with salvation, no Christian would tell other people (including other Christians) that if they keep sinning, they go to hell. But they do that all the time, starting with Jesus and Paul.

Theological language like "works have nothing to do with salvation" can be deceptive, practise of average Christians seems to point to conclusion that they do believe that works have alot to do with salvation. Especially work called "not living in sin".

I'm sure you've noticed that Christians disagree on a bunch of stuff. Not all believe in works-based salvation. I'd say most of us probably don't.

 

[Inkachu]

If works really had nothing to do with salvation, no Christian would tell other people (including other Christians) that if they keep sinning, they go to hell. But they do that all the time, starting with Jesus and Paul.

Theological language like "works have nothing to do with salvation" can be deceptive, practise of average Christians seems to point to conclusion that they do believe that works have alot to do with salvation. Especially work called "not living in sin".

I think you're mixing up salvation with "obeying God" or "pleasing God". Two separate things. Salvation is a spiritual state that occurs the moment a person places their trust in Christ as Savior. The other things you talk about, like witnessing to the lost or striving to avoid sin, is part of the post-salvation Christian walk. It is not what brings or maintains someone's salvation.

 

[South Bound]

A lot of christians ask me how I can have morals without God, but quite honestly, it's just instinctual to be good.

Interesting. Do you consider yourself to be a good person?

Why do you, as christians, need a reward of heaven to do good? Isn't doing good in itself enough?

First of all, in Christian theology, Heaven is not a "reward".

Second, doing good is fine. It can be noble, when done for the right reasons. It can be fulfilling and rewarding, in itself.

But doing good does not negate or overcome the fact that we, by nature, are not good.

Ephesians 2 says that we are saved in spite of our wickedness and that our good works are the natural fruit and response to the gift we have already received, not payment for or earning salvation.