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Featured Why do you believe God created (1) lucifer and all other original angels, and (2) humans?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Johnny4ChristJesus, Oct 3, 2018.

  1. Johnny4ChristJesus

    Johnny4ChristJesus Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What I am asking is what do you believe was His ultimate purpose in creating the angels and the humans?
     
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,” (Ephesians 3:9–10)
     
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  3. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    That verses doesn't tell us anything about God's reason behind creating the devil and his angels and demons. It's speaks about God's purposes to reveal the mystery of Christ to the Church, and to the powers of darkness, or expose the powers of darkness, I'm not sure. ?

    "Ephesians 3: 8. Although I am less than the least of all the Lord's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9. and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10. His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11. according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."
     
  4. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I believe that God through the creation process, was creating for Himself a family. But He did so in a manner that meant that only those who love Him and desire to serve Him will be among that family. By giving us the ability to choose (angels have choice as well, hence 1/3rd of them being cast out of heaven because of their poor choice) we can choose God and His righteousness or the world and what it can give us in this lifetime.
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    All things = the devil too.
     
  6. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    What?
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” (Isaiah 45:7)
     
  8. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    Yes, but the topic of the OP is why God created evil. Not if He created evil.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He created all for his good pleasure.
    “Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.” (Revelation 4:11)
     
  10. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Agreed. There is very little in scripture to tell us.
     
  11. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What he is saying is that in the verse he quoted it says, "God created all things" and he is saying this includes the devil. He's right, the only problem is, none of his replies have touched the initial question. :scratch: The initial question, @Dave L was, "What do you believe was His ultimate purpose in creating the angels and the humans?" What was the purpose, the REASON?
     
  12. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Why didn't you post that first? That answers the initial question... your first reply did not. :)
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Rev_4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It doesn't explain the details of why, which Paul explains in (Ephesians 3:9-10)

    “And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,” (Ephesians 3:9–10)
     
  15. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I gave two answers for this. One that gives details, the other that puts you in the ball park.
     
  16. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc We are saved purely by the work and grace of God. Supporter

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    I believe that God created humans for the same reason he created the angels. So that they could be with him in eternity. Gods original plans for angels and mankind was for his perfect creation to be with him and worship him forever. But mankind and some of the angels rebelled under the influence of Satan. Yes God foresaw this but he created humans and the angels anyway because he knew that some of his creation would be righteous. But why create the source of the problem? Why create Lucifer? If God never created Lucifer the curse of sin never would have entered the world.


    But, there had to be a reason why God created Lucifer. Maybe it was love. Maybe it was because God wanted to give his creation the chance to not rebell. I don't know the reason I'm not God. But that is why God created us and the angels. He wanted a perfect creation to live with him and worship him forever.
     
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  17. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is sentimental, but does not reflect what scripture says.
     
  18. Emli

    Emli Growing daughter of God Supporter

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    Yes, there is. I believe that God created all angels and humans for the purpose of fellowship. I once heard Ravi Zacharias speak about that beautifully, something about how God is social within Himself, but that He created His creatures, in His image, out of love, not because He needed it, but because He wanted to, and for us. It melts my heart with love.

    But He must have known that the devil and his angels would rebel, before He created them, and that was because they didn't abide in truth. John 8:44. Truth also means faithfulness in Hebrew, and I believe that is how Jesus used that word as well. So was the devil created to rebel or only predestined to rebel? I believe that God created him because His plan for humanity needed an adversary.

    I also believe that Romans 9:17-22 offers some explanation to why God created evil. And probably for the purpose to draw those who do choose Jesus and were chosen in Him closer to Him than we would have otherwise. I'm not sure I'm making sense.
     
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  19. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The confusion was... the ball park one, the one that didn't answer the question, was the first response you gave. :)
     
  20. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think explaining how something works is more important than merely saying it works.
     
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