Why do we look the other way?

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Where did you get this translation? I just read three different translations and in all of them the injuries referred to are not injuries to the woman but injuries in general. Meaning God is saying, if that kid has any injuries you're gonna get injuries yourself. I'd put my quotes, but everytime I try to quote, the text gets cut out.. I don't know if my computer's buggy or what. But I looked at NIV, ESV, and KJV. There's no feminine identifier used in that part.
Here is the Quote from KJV:
"22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

I agree that it is not 100% clear whether or not the child dies after it "departs" from the woman...thereby leaving it possible for the "life for a life" to be referring to the life of the one who assaulted, for the life of the baby.

So, much like most all interpretations, we can find a translation that would seem to agree with both sides of many arguments.

I see spirit saying in these writings......meanings that the carnal mind cannot understand.

So I happen to find it folly to use scripture to determine anything other than spiritual matters........
 
Upvote 0

SavedByGrace3

Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)
Site Supporter
Jun 6, 2002
19,728
3,713
Midlands
Visit site
✟560,499.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
60,069,971 abortions since the Supreme Court handed down its 1973 Roe vs. Wade decision allowing virtually unlimited abortions. That is not emotional content. That is not even judging. That is just an observation. Please do not tell us that all these were for rape and the health of the mother.
And while people are talking about it and arguing the minutia... another million are killed. So many children are being aborted that the population replacement rate is the lowest since 1909. The PRR is less than 1.78 per women in the US. That means that if not for immigration, our population would begin to drop like it already begun to drop in Japan and Germany.
These are facts... not emotional hand wringing.
60 million and counting... maybe there should just a smigin of emotional response.
Someone pointed out that when a single child dies it is a tragedy.
When a single child is murdered, we are outraged and demand justice.
But for some reason, when millions of children are being murdered... it barely gets a response. I think the average person simply cannot conceive it and so there is no response. The numbers are too big and inconceivable.
Downplaying this is just... just disgusting. It has to stop. Or nature will step and stop it for us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

StrivingFollower

Active Member
Oct 20, 2017
232
190
South
✟35,529.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Here is the Quote from KJV:
"22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

I agree that it is not 100% clear whether or not the child dies after it "departs" from the woman...thereby leaving it possible for the "life for a life" to be referring to the life of the one who assaulted, for the life of the baby.

So, much like most all interpretations, we can find a translation that would seem to agree with both sides of many arguments.

I see spirit saying in these writings......meanings that the carnal mind cannot understand.

So I happen to find it folly to use scripture to determine anything other than spiritual matters........
Well to me it's clear. God likes explaining things in overly long explanations like this because it puts a special emphasis on the point. He kind of throws you through a loop here to catch your extra attention. He starts off saying "well if the kid's born and he's not hurt, nor his mother. the dad decides what happens financially." Which almost hints at a big financial punishment.

But then he clarifies to hammer the point home saying the eye for eye, tooth for tooth punishment for injuries. What are the odds that kid is born with no injuries? God's trying to get you to think like him, by having you process the facts in this stylized order. Violence is very grotesque to God.
 
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well to me it's clear. God likes explaining things in overly long explanations like this because it puts a special emphasis on the point. He kind of throws you through a loop here to catch your extra attention. He starts off saying "well if the kid's born and he's not hurt, nor his mother. the dad decides what happens financially." Which almost hints at a big financial punishment.

But then he clarifies to hammer the point home saying the eye for eye, tooth for tooth punishment for injuries. What are the odds that kid is born with no injuries? God's trying to get you to think like him, by having you process the facts in this stylized order. Violence is very grotesque to God.

When I read this passage in KJV......my carnal mind tells me that the baby dies and the punishment of death is only for if the mother dies. But I can understand how others interpret it differently and see no fault in it.
 
Upvote 0

StrivingFollower

Active Member
Oct 20, 2017
232
190
South
✟35,529.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When I read this passage in KJV......my carnal mind tells me that the baby dies and the punishment of death is only for if the mother dies. But I can understand how others interpret it differently and see no fault in it.
I think I'm right because the flow of it. It starts off slow then it gets very aggressive with "But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, 24 an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, 25 a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise." It's like he's saying "that kid better have had a smooth exit because you gotta pay the price."
 
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think I'm right because the flow of it. It starts off slow then it gets very aggressive with "But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, 24 an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, 25 a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise." It's like he's saying "that kid better have had a smooth exit because you gotta pay the price."
This interpretation would imply that the woman is forgotten after the preceding verse. It is more likely for the woman to lose limbs and eyes and sustain wounds than for a child who had an early delivery. This verse seems to be explaining further injury to the woman.....as the child is assumed dead after the seed departs.......I dont believe there were too many men hurting woman whose bellies were large with child.... This seems to be more for a woman who is in the early stages.....who child is less likely to survive an early birth.....since even full term births were dangerous in that day.

That being said...I am interpreting spiritual things naturally, with my carnal mind......therefore I think I am wrong.
 
Upvote 0

StrivingFollower

Active Member
Oct 20, 2017
232
190
South
✟35,529.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This interpretation would imply that the woman is forgotten after the preceding verse. It is more likely for the woman to lose limbs and eyes and sustain wounds than for a child who had an early delivery. This verse seems to be explaining further injury to the woman.....as the child is assumed dead after the seed departs.......I dont believe there were too many men hurting woman whose bellies were large with child.... This seems to be more for a woman who is in the early stages.....who child is less likely to survive an early birth.....since even full term births were dangerous in that day.

That being said...I am interpreting spiritual things naturally, with my carnal mind......therefore I think I am wrong.
I just think the language is too dramatic here. And the placement of it on Exodus 21, a very important chapter.. It's almost like he sounds careless talking like that fetus is some trash to forget about, if I try to read it from an abortion supporter's point of view. You have to remember this lesson is for all people, those who presume abortion is wrong, and those who don't.

Edit: But I do understand what you mean when you say you read it spiritually. But there's a subjectivity to that. Our imaginations are so big, that you have to look at other factors too. I try to read spiritually all the time too. I pray about God's word a lot.. for example on this issue I think of how God loves every single detail of his creation, and how he loves his small children so much.. that's what points me in this direction.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Bottom line. I can say what I believe is right.......But I stop at forcing other to do what I believe is right Or calling them wrong if they do not agree with me........ Because I do not wish for my right to choose to be taken away from me, and would not like to be persecuted for choosing a way that is not Popular...... Following and trusting in God is, in fact, not popular.

Being permissive about choice,is being pro choice.
You can say well I'm against murder so I will put up a straw man.
It's not my duty to speak against choice after all.

This is the very reason abortion is so commonplace.
People have no concern with the vast numbers of infant deaths, and some how they believe the blood is not on their hands.
You cannot logically say I'm against death and murder, but I'm
For a mother killing her child.
You cannot be double minded on this topic.
If you would put this in a equal scenario you could say, I hate Isis and their morning ways , but they have their reasons who am I to judge?
Just because it's a young woman instead of a freak in a black mask does not change the outcome.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Before judging 'late-term abortion,' understand what it means, doctors say

View attachment 250777


By Jessica Ravitz, CNN

2011 GMT February 6, 2019

(CNN)President Donald Trump has called on Congress "to pass legislation to prohibit the late-term abortion of children." This came after he first accused New York lawmakers of cheering for "legislation that would allow a baby to be ripped from the mother's womb moments before birth" and then said embattled Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam "would execute a baby after birth."

With the recent passage of New York's new Reproductive Health Act and Northam's voiced support of a measure that would loosen restrictions on abortions later in pregnancy, the phrase "late-term abortion" has appeared in headlines, peppered conversations, fueled social media battles -- and now made it into a State of the Union address. But what exactly does this language mean?


CNN spoke with two ob-gyns to explain: Dr. Barbara Levy, vice president of health policy at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, a professional organization; and Dr. Jennifer Conti, a fellow with the advocacy group Physicians for Reproductive Health and co-host of The V Word podcast.


CNN: What does the phrase "late-term abortion" mean to you?


Dr. Barbara Levy: The phrase "late-term abortion" is medically inaccurate and has no clinical meaning. In science and medicine, it's essential to use language precisely. In pregnancy, to be "late term" means to be past 41 weeks gestation, or past a patient's due date. Abortions do not occur in this time period, so the phrase is contradictory.

Dr. Jennifer Conti: In obstetrics, we don't divide pregnancies into terms. "Late term" is an invention of anti-abortion extremists to confuse, mislead and increase stigma. The appropriate language is "abortions later in pregnancy."

CNN: When people speak about abortion later in pregnancy, are they referring to abortion in the third trimester or something else?

Levy: Generally, abortion later in pregnancy refers to abortion that happens at 21 weeks or later, so in the second or third trimester.

CNN: How common or uncommon are abortions at this stage of pregnancy?

Conti: According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, abortions after 21 weeks make up less than 1.3% of all abortions in the United States. This means that abortions that occur beyond 24 weeks make up less than 1% of all procedures.

CNN: Can you explain why abortions happen later in a pregnancy?

Conti: Three are many reasons why women may need to access abortion later in pregnancy, including maternal health endangerment, diagnosis of fetal abnormalities or restrictive laws delaying earlier access to abortion care. Those exceptionally rare cases that happen after 24 weeks are often because a fetus has a condition that cannot be treated and will never be able to survive -- regardless of the gestational age or trimester.

It's this exact reason that it's nonsensical to legislate these cases: Nobody arrives at the decision to have an abortion after 24 weeks carelessly. Rather, it's the rare case of rapidly decompensating maternal heart disease or a delayed diagnosis of anencephaly, where the fetus forms without a complete brain or skull, that bring people to these decisions.

Levy: Abortions later in pregnancy typically occur because of two general indications: lethal fetal anomalies or threats to the health of the mother. Some fetal development problems or genetic anomalies do not show up or develop until later in pregnancy. Some examples might include anencephaly (described above) or limb-body wall complex, when the organs develop outside of the body cavity. With conditions like these, the fetus cannot survive out of the uterus.

Likewise, when conditions progress or appear that severely compromise a woman's health or life, abortion may be the safest, medically indicated procedure. These conditions can also reduce the possibility of fetal survival. They might include premature rupture of membranes (where the fluid surrounding the fetus is lost before labor), uterine infection, preeclampsia, placental abruption and placenta accreta. Women under these circumstances may have extensive blood loss or septic shock that can be fatal.

It's important to note, if a woman's health or life is at risk and the fetus is viable, delivery is pursued, not abortion.

In the case of either lethal fetal anomalies or complications that endanger a woman's life, it's essential that women and their physicians are able to consider the full range of appropriate treatments, whether that's abortion care, induction of labor or cesarean birth. Every pregnant woman's situation and medical condition are different, and there is no way to make a one-size-fits-all determination about the appropriate care.

No matter what, care must be compassionate and recognize that for many women, the choices they are facing are devastating and immensely complicated.

CNN: Can any woman simply choose to have an abortion late in her pregnancy?

Levy: Abortion later in pregnancy is a very complex decision and, often, a very emotional one. We know that women who make the decision to have an abortion do so in a considered, deliberate fashion. This is especially true for women who have abortions later in pregnancy who are often facing devastating fetal diagnoses or life-threatening conditions that may introduce a multitude of clinical considerations into their decision-making.

Moreover, the ob-gyns who provide later in pregnancy abortion care have very specific training both in the technical procedure, as well as ethical decision-making in complex clinical circumstances.

Conti: Federal law is meant to protect the right to abortion up to the point of viability (often thought of as 24 weeks from the last menstrual period), but numerous states have subsequently enacted harmful gestational age limits that are ideologically motivated and not based in science. Your right to an abortion is now absolutely based on the accident of your ZIP code.

If a person needs to end their pregnancy after 24 weeks, there are a limited number of places in the country where they can do that, and the approval process for that procedure is scrupulous.

CNN: Many states that impose gestational age limits for abortion do so with exceptions. Do exceptions do enough to alleviate your concerns?

Levy: The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists opposes undue political interference in the practice of medicine, including legislation that bans abortion at an arbitrary cutoff point. While exceptions are often suggested for gestational age bans, the fact is that it's impossible to predict every circumstance that might arise in pregnancy.


Additionally, exceptions can also generate significant confusion for health care providers attempting to interpret these laws and practice accordingly, particularly when they face criminal charges if they violate the law, even if accidentally.

It is an exceedingly precarious position between counseling patients on the most appropriate and compassionate care for their health and interpreting vague legal exceptions.

CNN: Are there other reasons access to abortion care concerns you?

Levy: Even in states where arbitrary gestational age restrictions do not exist, barriers to any abortion care are still very common. Many women in the United States live 100 miles or more from the nearest abortion care provider. Even if they are able to access a health care provider, they are likely to face other barriers to abortion care, like medically unnecessary ultrasounds, mandatory 24-hour waiting periods and two in-person trips to a clinic. And of course, for women living in states that ban coverage of abortion care in insurance plans, the procedure -- especially if they need to travel, take time off of work and/or secure child care -- may be prohibitively expensive. Federal funding for abortion care is also banned, except in extremely limited circumstances


For women who need abortion care in the third trimester, there are very few places across the country where this care is accessible, and it is very rarely covered by insurance. Typically, these procedures would cost in the thousands of dollars. Moreover, many women would have to travel by plane to reach these providers, so in addition to the cost of the care, they are incurring the cost of travel and lodging.

CNN: What do you wish people would think about when discussing this hot-button subject?

Levy: It's important to remember, whether in a discussion about abortion care or any other component of care, that these are complicated, nuanced circumstances that effect the course of real people's lives.

Particular to abortion care later in pregnancy, I would urge everyone to exercise more compassion. It's important to acknowledge that we simply cannot possibly know the circumstances of every pregnancy or the challenge of making decisions when things go terribly awry.

Abortion later in pregnancy is not used as an alternative to delivering healthy women's full-term, viable pregnancies. Additionally, it's callous to suggest that healthy women with viable pregnancies at term abruptly change their minds and seek abortion care as the solution.

CNN: What do you think are the biggest misunderstandings about this topic?

Conti: The majority of women having abortions are already mothers and are making the decisions they know to be best for their other children and their families.

One in four women will have an abortion by the time they're 45, which means that very likely, you know or love someone who has had an abortion. If you're not privy to them, it's likely because your outward judgment is isolating those people in your life.

As someone who used to self-identify as anti-choice, I can attest that the biggest misunderstanding about abortion is the framework of hypotheticals vs. reality. All pregnancies carry risks, but some much more than others, and it is the job of the patient to weigh risks and benefits in all medical decisions. Not politicians. Not journalists. Not strangers on Twitter.

Misleading hypotheticals show disregard and contempt for people who have had an abortion later in pregnancy. People who have abortions deserve empathy and understanding, not judgment.

This is going to escalate late term Abortions nation wide.
The main question asked that was dodged, was how many centimeters dilated is too many?
What a question!
Then the expert said stammering around the question ( that is a doctor's desicion)
CNN is the most Trump hating news out there, no matter the topic it's gonna bash Trump.
Why don't they talk about Pelosi and the others on far left being pro abortion?
They twist out news that blames Trump non stop ,they are the true enemy of freedom in America.
CNN is not news it is a political propaganda broadcast.
I honestly do not see how anyone could watch non stop Trump bashing or anyone for that matter who is not part of their Socialist agenda.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Here is the Quote from KJV:
"22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine."

I agree that it is not 100% clear whether or not the child dies after it "departs" from the woman...thereby leaving it possible for the "life for a life" to be referring to the life of the one who assaulted, for the life of the baby.

So, much like most all interpretations, we can find a translation that would seem to agree with both sides of many arguments.

I see spirit saying in these writings......meanings that the carnal mind cannot understand.

So I happen to find it folly to use scripture to determine anything other than spiritual matters........

What is the point of This?
Are you trying to say that the bible is not clear on murder?
Yet you want to call war murder.
It's folly to use God's Word to guide our lives ?
If a man is pro abortion the Spirit of God is not in Him.
God will not be mocked.
The first and foremost thing we should use in our lives is God's Word, it is Holy ,it is Christ ,it is given by His Spirit.
Without it we will be destroyed.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
There is no compromise.
Early Christians on Abortion and Infanticide

The term "exposing infants" refers to the practice of abandoning infant children along roadsides, leaving them either to die of exposure or to be taken by someone, usually to be raised as a slave or a prostitute.

If men fight and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely… [and] if any lasting harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot. Exod. 21.22.23.

You shall not kill the child by obtaining an abortion. Nor, again, shall you destroy him after he is born. Barnabas (c. 70-130, E) 1.148.

You shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill one who has been born. Didache (c.80-140, E), 1.377.

We say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder. And we also say they will have to give an account to God for the abortion. So on what basis could we commit murder? For it does not belong to the same person to regard the very fetus in the womb as a created being (and therefore an object of God’s care)—yet, when he passed into life, to kill him. We also teach that it is wrong to expose an infant. For those who expose them are guilty of child murder. Athenagoras (c. 175, E) 2.147.

Although keeping parrots and curlews, the [pagans] do not adopt the orphan child. Rather, they expose children who are born at home. Yet, they take up young birds. So they prefer irrational creatures to rational ones! Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E) 2.279.

What cause is there for the exposure of a child? The man who did not desire to beget children had no right to marry at all. He certainly does not have the right to become the murderer of his children, because of licentious indulgence. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.368.

In our case, murder is once for all forbidden. Therefore, we may not destroy even the fetus in the womb, while as yet the human being derives blood from other parts of the body for its sustenance. To hinder a birth is merely a speedier way to kill a human. It does not matter whether you take away a life that has been born, or destroy one that is not yet born. Tertullian (c. 197, W), 3.25.

First of all, you [pagan] expose your children, so that they may be taken by any compassionate passer-by, to whom they are quite unknown! Tertullian (c. 197, W) 3.26.

Among surgeons’ tools there is a certain instrument that is formed with a nicely-adjusted flexible frame for first of all opening the uterus and then keeping it open. It also has a circular blade, by means of which the limbs within the womb are dissected with careful, but unflinching care. Its last appendage is a blunted or covered hook, by which the entire fetus is extracted by a violent delivery. There is also a copper needle or spike, by which the actual death is brought about in this treacherous robbery of life. From its infanticide function, they give it the name, "killer of the infant"—which infant, of course, had once been alive. Tertullian (c210, W), 3.206.

Indeed, the Law of Moses punishes with appropriate penalties the person who causes abortion. For there already exists the beginning stages of a human being. And even at this stage, [the fetus] is already acknowledged with having the condition of life and death, since he is already susceptible to both. Tertullian (c. 210, W), 3.218.

Are you to dissolve the conception by aid of drugs? I believe it is no more lawful to hurt a child in process of birth, than to hurt one who is already born. Tertullian (c. 212, W), 4.57.

I behold a certain ceremony and circumstance of adultery. On the one hand, idolatry precedes it and leads the way. On the other hand, murder follows in company. . . . Witness the midwives, too! How many adulterous conceptions are slaughtered! Tertullian (c. 212, W), 4.78.

There are some women who, by drinking medical preparations, extinguish the source of the future man in their very bowels. So they commit murder before they bring forth. And these things assuredly come down from the teaching of your gods. Mark Minucius Felix (c. 200, W), 4.192.

Women who were reputed believers began to resort to drugs for producing sterility. They also girded themselves around, so as to expel what was being conceived. For they did not wish to have a child by either a slave or by any common fellow—out of concern for their family and their excessive wealth. See what a great impiety the lawless one has advanced! He teaches adultery and murder at the same time! Hippolytus (c. 225, W), 5.131.

The womb of his wife was hit by a blow of his heel. And, in the miscarriage that soon followed, the offspring was brought forth, the fruit of a father’s murder. Cyprian (c. 250, W), 5.326.

I cannot find language to even speak of the infants who were burned to the same Saturn! Lactantius (c. 304-313, W) 7.35.

[Speaking of pagans:] They either strangle the sons born from themselves, or if they are too "pious," they expose them. Lactantius (c. 304-313, W), 7.144, 145.

Let no one imagine that to strangle newborn children is allowable. For this is the greatest impiety! God breathes into their souls for life, not for death. Men… deprive souls that are still innocent and simple, of the light that they themselves have not given…. Or can those persons be considered innocent who expose their own offspring as prey for dogs? As far as their participation is concerned, they have killed them in a more cruel manner than if they had strangled them!… Therefore, if anyone is unable to bring up children because of poverty, it is better to abstain from marriage than to mar the work of God with wicked hands. Lactantius (c. 304-313, W), 7.187.

You shall not slay your child by causing abortion, nor kill the baby that is born. For "everything that is shaped and has received a soul is from God, if it is slain, shall be avenged, as being unjustly destroyed" [Ezek. 21:23, LXX]. Apostolic Constitutions (compiled c. 390, E), 7.466.

A beautifully written teaching.
I would rather see this knowledge in another topic , yet for some the law of God is not enough.
I am thankful for your reply.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Please note that those who disagree with your assertions are not, in most cases, for abortion, for murder or excusing deaths.

Some are just more prone to gain knowledge and fact than to run with emotional, heart moving statements without the facts. Some are also more interested in helping and doing what is right, than pointing out and condemning those who are doing wrong.

Emotion, is what makes us human.
Spiritual as a Child of God , gives us His Will.
Humanism is void of spiritual discernment.
Salvation quickens our emotions to know right from wrong.
Salvation separates us from the World.
We cannot be of the world ,and have the indwelling of God at the same time.

1 John 4: 4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
 
Upvote 0

now faith

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 31, 2011
7,772
1,568
florida
✟257,472.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
How much more will God allow to continue before He says enough?


Romans 1: 24. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25. Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Being permissive about choice,is being pro choice.
You can say well I'm against murder so I will put up a straw man.
It's not my duty to speak against choice after all.

This is the very reason abortion is so commonplace.
People have no concern with the vast numbers of infant deaths, and some how they believe the blood is not on their hands.
You cannot logically say I'm against death and murder, but I'm
For a mother killing her child.
You cannot be double minded on this topic.
If you would put this in a equal scenario you could say, I hate Isis and their morning ways , but they have their reasons who am I to judge?
Just because it's a young woman instead of a freak in a black mask does not change the outcome.
Pro choice is not pro abortion.

The reason abortion is "commonplace" is because we spend too much time talking against it, and too little time doing the work to make chances that will give those who would, alternate options.

We are too interested in instilling doctrine and getting people to believe us and too little time actually helping the infants.
 
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
What is the point of This?
Are you trying to say that the bible is not clear on murder?
Yet you want to call war murder.
It's folly to use God's Word to guide our lives ?
If a man is pro abortion the Spirit of God is not in Him.
God will not be mocked.
The first and foremost thing we should use in our lives is God's Word, it is Holy ,it is Christ ,it is given by His Spirit.
Without it we will be destroyed.
The message was for the poster I replied to. You will need to read that conversation to get an understanding of what it was for.
 
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Emotion, is what makes us human.
Spiritual as a Child of God , gives us His Will.
Humanism is void of spiritual discernment.
Salvation quickens our emotions to know right from wrong.
Salvation separates us from the World.
We cannot be of the world ,and have the indwelling of God at the same time.

1 John 4: 4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error. 7. Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
I disagree with most of what you believe. But I see nothing wrong with anything you say or believe.

Continue doing and saying what you believe is right.... I hope, one day that you will be ok allowing others to do the same.
 
Upvote 0

StrivingFollower

Active Member
Oct 20, 2017
232
190
South
✟35,529.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Pro choice is not pro abortion.

The reason abortion is "commonplace" is because we spend too much time talking against it, and too little time doing the work to make chances that will give those who would, alternate options.

We are too interested in instilling doctrine and getting people to believe us and too little time actually helping the infants.
Your priorities are not in line. Nothing should justify murder. Should we do a better job on those other things? Yea, but nothing justifies murder. The problem here is pro choice people say "hey it's questionable that that fetus should count as a full living thing." But if it's questionable, you have to take the safe option that misses the possible acceptance of murder. The risk is massive here.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Your priorities are not in line. Nothing should justify murder. Should we do a better job on those other things? Yea, but nothing justifies murder. The problem here is pro choice people say "hey it's questionable that that fetus should count as a full living thing." But if it's questionable, you have to take the safe option that misses the possible acceptance of murder. The risk is massive here.
My priorities are to help the dying infants. Are you saying that my first priority should be to point out and shame those who are killing them?

I do not know the full interpretation of those who are pro choice.......I just believe that no one is for killing babies.....

I agree there is no excuse for murder.........do you make an excuse for self defense, or do you use a word other than murder in these cases to make it allowable?
 
Upvote 0