Why do some women contribute to their own oppression?

[teresa]

Any ideas or thoughts on why there are some women who want to be oppressed?

 

[thecolorsblend]

Any ideas or thoughts on why there are some women who want to be oppressed?

Examples?

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Any ideas or thoughts on why there are some women who want to be oppressed?

IMHO iit is because they are living under this curse.
Gen. 3:16To the woman he said,

“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”

 

[mkgal1]

I think this is a good example of what she's referring to:

 

[mkgal1]

IMHO iit is because they are living under this curse.

I thought that curse was reversed at the cross?

“I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.” (John 11:25–26)

“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22)
​

Also....take note of my profile picture. Christ crushed the head of the serpent.

From linked article ~ Jesus calls Mary “woman” from the cross because she is present in the “crushing of the head of the serpent (Cp. Gen. 3:15 & John 19:25-27).” The words “Calvary” and “Galgotha” mean, “the place of the skull.” Again, Jesus calls Mary, “Woman,” because she is present as the New Eve for the crushing of the head of the serpent. Satan’s strike at Jesus on the cross was a minor wound: “you will strike his heel,” but Satan suffered the wound of “he will strike your head (Gen. 3:15).”

The Bible clearly gives many examples of types showing Mary as the New Eve. After the Fall of man, “Adam named his wife Eve because she was the mother of all living (Gen. 3:20).” If Adam named her Eve because she was the mother of all living after death entered the world through sin, then how much more Mary is the mother of all living after sin was conquered through the victory that she and her son, Jesus Christ, the Son of God brought to everyone who believes? ~ The Crushing of the Head of the Serpent (Luke 1:26-2:52)​

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I thought that curse was reversed at the cross?

“I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live, and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die.” (John 11:25–26)

“For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22)​

It was not reversed, but nullified. But some people still live as if it was still in force.

 

[mkgal1]

But some people still live as if it was still in force

Agreed. I think they consider it as being "righteous" to suffer.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think these are good examples of what she's referring to:

I don't think that video is a good teacher.

New Christians aren't supposed to teach and this woman makes that perfectly obvious. I couldn't sit through the video long enough to decipher her position..(in skipping around I see she is a new Christian)

So.. this topic is concerning the question of whether or not women can preach?

And that would mean the OP thinks it is "oppressive" if women can't?

 

[mkgal1]

I don't think that video is a good teacher.

New Christians aren't supposed to teach and this woman makes that perfectly obvious. I couldn't sit through the video long enough to decipher her position..(in skipping around I see she is a new Christian)

I honestly just went to YT to look for a woman proclaiming that women can't preach (and I didn't even watch the whole video). It was just one example of one woman holding others back.

So.. this topic is concerning the question of whether or not women can preach?

And that would mean the OP thinks it is "oppressive" if women can't?

No....not specifically whether or not women can preach.

I'm not going to answer for Kat.....but I believe it's "oppressive" to hold a person back from their vocation and calling (if they ARE called to that vocation).

 

[Hazelelponi]

I honestly just went to YT to look for a woman proclaiming that women can't preach (and I didn't even watch the whole video). It was just one example of one woman holding others back.

No....not specifically whether or not women can preach.

I'm not going to answer for Kat.....but I believe it's "oppressive" to hold a person back from their vocation and calling (if they ARE called to that vocation).

This has been a question for me, because God did call me to share the Gospel.

But herein lies the question, is thinking this calling as something unique to us and hereby must mean we must be Pastors over congregations simply a mistake in our own understanding?

Because that is certainly how the calling feels, but feeling isn't how we decide what exactly we are being called to. We must look honestly at scripture and pray and go to the elders and wait until we have absolute certainty of the calling, because there are many areas where it's quite clear that women can so serve within the calling of teaching/preaching the Gospel such as missions, and other areas that are far far less clear, such as pastoring a congregation.

So before deciding to follow the feeling, I think we should carefully and prayerfully consider the text. I don't have the answer perfectly clear for myself yet, but I'm also not approaching the topic alone, i.e., without being a more mature Christian and without the prayer and council of the elders.

The answer for Christians is likely to be split depending on denomination, and the denominations allowing it makes me think that much harder about my own calling and how I'm looking at it.

 

[bekkilyn]

This has been a question for me, because God did call me to share the Gospel.

But herein lies the question, is thinking this calling as something unique to us and hereby must mean we must be Pastors over congregations simply a mistake in our own understanding?

Because that is certainly how the calling feels, but feeling isn't how we decide what exactly we are being called to. We must look honestly at scripture and pray and go to the elders and wait until we have absolute certainty of the calling, because there are many areas where it's quite clear that women can so serve within the calling of teaching/preaching the Gospel such as missions, and other areas that are far far less clear, such as pastoring a congregation.

So before deciding to follow the feeling, I think we should carefully and prayerfully consider the text.

In the United Methodist denomination, the discernment process for becoming an elder/pastor is very lengthy and not just someone just suddenly deciding that s/he is being called to do that. By the time an individual has gone through the candidacy process for ministry, the calling will be affirmed by many people, both men and women, both clergy and lay, and then ordination or licensing will be bestowed by the bishop at annual conference. (There is much more to it than this, but I am being brief.)

By the time you've completed this process, you *know* your calling and so do others. It doesn't all just happen by whim or accident.

I'm sure there is a similar process in most of the more established denominations.

When we are able to recognize a calling within people and can clearly see the Spirit working in them, it can be very frustrating to have other people claim that it's not possible based on human prejudice and surface understanding of scripture.

 

[mkgal1]

Because that is certainly how the calling feels, but feeling isn't how we decide what exactly we are being called to.

I actually disagree with you. I DO believe that "feeling" is a big part of figuring out our vocation.

I'm re-reading a book by Dr. Henry Cloud, called 9 Things You Simply Must Do.....and in it he describes how the best way for us to realize our vocations is to pay close attention to what makes our soul alive.

I think the demonization of feelings/emotions is something that has harmed our culture (for both men and women).

We must look honestly at scripture and pray and go to the elders and wait until we have absolute certainty of the calling, because there are many areas where it's quite clear that women can so serve within the calling of teaching/preaching the Gospel such as missions, and other areas that are far far less clear, such as pastoring a congregation.

Other people may help with confirmation....but I don't think they are who we ought to look to initially. We have to live with our choices.....and those people aren't really too invested in their opinions they may give.

 

[Hazelelponi]

In the United Methodist denomination, the discernment process for becoming an elder/pastor is very lengthy and not just someone just suddenly deciding that s/he is being called to do that. By the time an individual has gone through the candidacy process for ministry, the calling will be affirmed by many people, both men and women, both clergy and lay, and then ordination or licensing will be bestowed by the bishop at annual conference. (There is much more to it than this, but I am being brief.)

By the time you've completed this process, you *know* your calling and so do others. It doesn't all just happen by whim or accident.

I'm sure there is a similar process in most of the more established denominations.

When we are able to recognize a calling within people and can clearly see the Spirit working in them, it can be very frustrating to have other people claim that it's not possible based on human prejudice and surface understanding of scripture.

I'm not sure what Methodists consider a calling from God - just having some skills isn't my idea of being called.

But denominations such as the Methodists, who are very liberal in their interpretation of scripture, is a red flag to me..

 

[Hazelelponi]

I actually disagree with you. I DO believe that "feeling" is a big part of figuring out our vocation.

I'm re-reading a book by Dr. Henry Cloud, called 9 Things You Simply Must Do.....and in it he describes how the best way for us to realize our vocations is to pay close attention to what makes our soul alive.

I think the demonization of feelings/emotions is something that has harmed our culture (for both men and women).

Other people may help with confirmation....but I don't think they are who we ought to look to initially. We have to live with out choices.....and those people aren't really too invested in their opinions they may give.

I haven't gone to the church yet, I've been spending more time learning faith and scripture and figuring out the calling in my own heart.

I had decided upon going to the church when I think I have it figured out (and am more mature) for further counsel.

 

[bekkilyn]

I'm not sure what Methodists consider a calling from God - just having some skills isn't my idea of being called.

But denominations such as the Methodists, who are very liberal in their interpretation of scripture, is a red flag to me..

All right, well, nevermind then.

 

[mkgal1]

When we are able to recognize a calling within people and can clearly see the Spirit working in them, it can be very frustrating to have other people claim that it's not possible based on human prejudice and surface understanding of scripture.

Exactly.

 

[Paidiske]

From the day I first approached the church saying, "I think maybe God is calling me to ministry," to the day I was ordained (a deacon), was seven and a half years. It certainly wasn't a quick process.

As to the OP... I think most of us work out fairly early on that we can't have everything we want. Standing up to oppression is personally costly; it takes courage and resilience, and I think it's possible that some women don't have the resources they would need to make it possible. I think most of us, at some point, decide the cost is too high and don't stand up to something.

And when, for example, circumstances mean that standing up to oppression would be putting an otherwise happy marriage at risk; or maybe having to choose between having children and other aspirations in life, the costs might be very high indeed.

 

[bekkilyn]

From the day I first approached the church saying, "I think maybe God is calling me to ministry," to the day I was ordained (a deacon), was seven and a half years. It certainly wasn't a quick process.

It certainly isn't about taking a "skills test". While skills are a consideration, you will have many one one one meetings with various clergy and lay people, reading material to learn more about all the ministries in the church, spiritual gifts assessments, mentoring sessions with ordained elders, a physical exam and a psychological exam and evaluation, criminal background checks, numerous essays to submit to the conference describing your calling and doctrine, going before various committees in your local church and in your district for evaluation, and all of this is just to become an official *candidate*. To actually get licensed or ordained requires further process.

One of my mentors in her call story had stated that she never had any intention of becoming a pastor ever, but random people would come up to her at points in her life and ask her if she was a pastor or why she wasn't a pastor yet. She resisted for a long time but eventually answered the call, and has dealt with a combination of both racism and sexism.

As to the OP... I think most of us work out fairly early on that we can't have everything we want. Standing up to oppression is personally costly; it takes courage and resilience, and I think it's possible that some women don't have the resources they would need to make it possible. I think most of us, at some point, decide the cost is too high and don't stand up to something.

And when, for example, circumstances mean that standing up to oppression would be putting an otherwise happy marriage at risk; or maybe having to choose between having children and other aspirations in life, the costs might be very high indeed.

There is also less motivation when one is at a "comfortable" point in life. It's really easy to just allow the man to handle everything and take care of you rather than being in a partnership with real responsibility and accountability. It can be scary to have to make important decisions.

Plus, oppression isn't always obvious. Oftentimes it's the constant, daily, and exhausting little things that relentlessly chip away at you until you reach a point where you may just give up and go along with it.

 

[Dave-W]

I thought that curse was reversed at the cross?

Not “reversed,” but partly nullified. The full nullification will not occur until the very end, when we no longer have to deal with sickness or death.

 

[Dave-W]

Agreed. I think they consider it as being "righteous" to suffer.

That applies to many areas of Christian life, and to men just as much as women.