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I agree with you, and I would add that being cast into the Outer Darkness is not what you are I would consider torment. Boring, yes, but tormented? No. Being deprived of victims to feed off of is the real reason they are tormented. These are the kind of people who can't rest at night unless they know they have screwed somebody over that day.
I agree with you, and I would add that being cast into the Outer Darkness is not what you are I would consider torment. Boring, yes, but tormented? No. Being deprived of victims to feed off of is the real reason they are tormented. These are the kind of people who can't rest at night unless they know they have screwed somebody over that day.
I always end up coming away with the peace that if such things were essential for us to come to saving knowledge and relationship with God then God would have made sure they were readily available to everyone.
I would argue that the right hand should not know what the left hand is doing. I may be versed in the critical history, but I "believe"(first century connotation "follow") confessional history. Facts are never very inspiring.I see what your saying. I would agrue God did make sure the full deposit of faith readily available to us through his Holy Spirit. The holy Spirit used the apostles and their successors as the official organ for divine revelation. I'd state the comment assumes all "essentials" are based in Scripture alone and the "essentials" are self-evident to any 'saved' reader. Your take? James
I see what your saying. I would agrue God did make sure the full deposit of faith readily available to us through his Holy Spirit. The holy Spirit used the apostles and their successors as the official organ for divine revelation. I'd state the comment assumes all "essentials" are based in Scripture alone and the "essentials" are self-evident to any 'saved' reader. Your take? James
Or maybe rather than a fallacy, we should say that the spirit of truth denies tradition and the sixteenth century adoption of Solo Scriptura?The fallacy here is that it denys Sacred Tradition and is rooted in Solo Scriptura.
Barnabas believed that Hyenas changed sex twice a year and Weasels conceived with their mouths.
If someone doesn't know the nature of the seen, how then can they claim knowledge of the unseen?
The seen is a reflection of the unseen---
to misunderstand the reflection is to guarantee a misunderstanding of the cause.
I've had numerous people claim to me that the earth is but 6000 years old. The Lord speaks in my ear, that they ought naught be talking but listening.
I'm actally saying that we have these lettters. We just call them the New Testament. If a church has a tradition (such as eternal torture in hell) that contradicts what we find in the NT, we aren't obligated to believe them. They have strayed from what the Apostles taught.I've often thought about the things you just mentioned. I always end up coming away with the peace that if such things were essential for us to come to saving knowledge and relationship with God then God would have made sure they were readily available to everyone. Because if they aren't, then who really is responsible for anyone not coming to whatever is essential. We can say it is 'the churches' responsibility, but it isn't the church that, as orthodoxy believes, tortures those poor uninformed souls for eternity.
Why do you insult me like this?If you think that Christianity is so flawed then why do you fight so hard to be considered the one true Christian? Why bother if you think that the vast majority of Christians are such idiots? Why do you feel the need to be a part of a group that you have so much contempt for?
There is no fallacy here.The fallacy here is that it denys Sacred Tradition and is rooted in Solo Scriptura.
Or maybe rather than a fallacy, we should say that the spirit of truth denies tradition and the sixteenth century adoption of Solo Scriptura?
After all, if Paul, Jude, James, et al had believed in Solo Scriptura we wouldn't have those wonderful letters?
... nice insight into the 'poetry' of scripture that few can yet understand [Matt 7:13-14] and so are very needful of Love...
outer darkness comes from inner blindness ,
even to blindness of denial to all of one's own conscience , heart of Love, spirit, mind ...
it is easily the worst torment, but one only LEARNS how to torment oneself by following the world, not by following Christ ,
the ONLY way OUT of physicality to the ONE spirit of God where there can be no division, no torment, just another creation ,
endlessly more creations that all must end as they began, as nothing [and the spirit unchangeable , unchanged ...perfect, incorruptible, un-destroyable , ONE... NOTHING else exists endlessly ,
there is no god with God who is not God...
no creation opposes God endlessly ,
they all end...
no creation does not end ,,,
all evil is PHYSICAL , it ends...
ALL torment is physical because the spirit CANNOT change and is ONE , no division, no conflict , no damage, no strain...
outer darkness comes from inner blindness
thus look to the mistranslation and misrepresentation of scripture to understand how mass religion is DIVIDED and thus FALSE, God is NOT ...
God can and will show all folks the Truth -Joel 2:28,
John 16:13,
but FEW wait for spirit baptism to KNOW all Truth from God,
not men [Jer 31:31-34] and so be UNITED in one Truth of God UNLIKE religion of men's diverse traditions...
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Yup, and that's how we know they didn't practice Solo Scriptura!
I've never heard that POV...scripture please.Why are they uniformed? The whole point of waiting so long to cast them into the Outer Darkness is to make sure that their decision is fully informed and of their own consent and not a decision made under duress.
This quote would come from someone who believes the 'orthodox view'. They believe God to be a worse despot than Hitler, in that there is no death or punishment in hell, only endless dying and endless punishing. Death/punishment are nouns and have a defined end.
There are three main beliefs concerning hell.
1. Orthodox view: Eternal punitive torture for no purpose at all which is sadism...bold mine.
2. Annihilation ism view: Which believes the purpose of the fire is to burn up or to destroy the individual. A much kinder view of the God of love.
3. Ultimate reconciliation view: This view believes that all judgment is redemptive and purgative/purifying in purpose. It believes that God's plan to save His creation was just that, a plan to save ALL His creation. Even though this plan may not culminate until the end of the ages. And this view believes that God wins...and not the Devil.
Below is an interesting quote, coming from a Baptist no less.
German Baptist - Philip Schaff writes :
In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six known theological schools, of which four (Alexandria Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is unknown. ( The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge Vol XII, Baker Book House, 1950, p. 96.)
If you notice, the only school to believe in eternal torture was in Rome...guess what church came out of Rome? It then made the decision that anyone who disagreed with them was a heretic and killed them...all in LOVE of course.
If 'the first church' is the only correct church, then we should all be driving FORDS....
If 'the first church' is the only correct church, then we should all be driving FORDS....
Oh, if only there were letters written by people who walked and talked with Jesus while he was alive. If we had letters like that, maybe we could tell what Jesus said, and what he did. Maybe we could read a letter that describes what happened in the early churches. If Peter or John had only written something down, then we would know what the early church was like, and we wouldn't have to take the word of Romans who lived centuries later to tell us.
Well, we do have four or five letters of Paul that are more or less acknowledged universally as genuine; This is enough to tell us that Paul acknowledged Jesus to be a real personage, though the meaning of his teachings are filtered through his world view, and whatever alterations are added in later.
It is a comfort to know that though additions were often added to letters to support whatever doctrine, it was almost entirely unknown to have verses removed intentionally. Thus by identifying the time period that doctrines were known to have existed, the additions can be removed restoring the letters somewhat to their original form. Alterations in meaning are somewhat dicier, as the RSV records in a footnote that earlier versions of Luke record the Baptismal as the voice from heaven saying "in thee I am well pleased, this day I have begotten thee". I imagine this later alteration came about for more consistency with the doctrine of Jesus being God's Son from His birth.
It is also true that the original version of the Gospel of John was missing the encounter with the prostitute and her accusers. This was probably present in a now lost Gospel, and someone felt that the story was too good not to keep.
The Gospel of Thomas was probably started around fifty AD, and reached it's present form in the second century. By then the thomasine church was on it's way out the door.
Mark, originally ended at the cross. Matthew came later out of Antioch, and was more Jewish in origin, though by someone not really familiar with the books of the prophets, so probably not a rabbi. It was also reactionary in places to Pauline teachings.
Marcion's "Gospel of the Lord" he claimed to have been given to his father, the bishop of Sinop, by Paul, and if true would be the very Gospel that Paul said he did not receive from the hands of men.. It is probably also the basis for "Luke"'s Gospel, as the author himself attests to in his first two verses, making whatever additions he deemed needed to bring it into line with doctrine.
All in all there is enough smoke to indicate the presence of a fire, and to lead one to the indwelling Christ.
You may disagree, as is your right. You would however, be arguing from confessional history, which has no basis in critical history.
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