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I don't believe it is a sincere question, from you or him.
I believe it is an attempt to poison the well. "Oh, that guy is just like those cult members, you can't believe anything he says."
A JW told me that God is going to destroy me because I believe in Jesus/God.Sorry you feel that way, but, it was a sincere question. Had you said yes it would not have changed anything.
As far as cult members go, my experience with some Mormons and JWs has been quite pleasant. My hope for them is that they are ignorant of their own "faiths" doctrine not to be "damned."
There are Catholics, as well, that I have spoken to who have no business associating with the Catholic Church.
A JW told me that God is going to destroy me because I believe in Jesus/God.
Again your faith in confessional history verses critical history is great. That's a nice story, but the reality of it is that Paul and the church led by James(Peter was subservient in the hierarchy) did not get along at all.Again your faith in man is great.
Paul did not villify the Law, and most students know this. What is missing from your basis is understanding Paul's attempt to mediate the New Covenant.
God bless.
Don't remember off hand.
This individual became quite hostile when I insisted that Jesus is God.The important thing is to remember that each person, no matter what they say they are, have to be addressed on an individual basis. Usually we will find they not such a "good" this or that they think they are, lol. And vice versa, sometimes they are not as bad as their chosen moniker might imply.
And by the way, nice to meet you dollarsbill.
Again your faith in confessional history verses critical history is great.
That's a nice story, but the reality of it is that Paul and the church led by James(Peter was subservient in the hierarchy) did not get along at all.
Look at 2nd Corinthians chapter three. Jewish Christians came from Jerusalem to some of Paul's students. James was Bishop of Jerusalem and only he or Peter could have written those letters of introduction--- and in Paul's absence began to teach them things that he stoutheartedly opposed.
Chief among them, that Gentiles had to convert to Judaism to become Christian.
Look at even in Acts, where James wrote a letter to a northern king laying out some Jewish law.
This is a schism that can be traced through subsequent churches, such as the Marcionites and Valentinians.
This individual became quite hostile when I insisted that Jesus is God.
And you!
And nice talking to you. And ditto on that---I mean no one any offense, I do not argue to convince merely to explain. My nature is not always human natureNot to be critial or anything, but I think you mean "versus."
Just yanking your chain.
My criticism is of the scripture, surely you have picked up on that by now.
Yeah, and one of dem sneaky Catholics inserted this:
2 Peter 3:15
King James Version (KJV)
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
No wait, maybe it was one of dem Jews.
lol
Come on, Soulgazer, the dissension between Paul and Peter and Baranabus and John Mark...is public record. I think Paul was a no-nonsense called it like he saw it and did so with a pharisaical proclivity for detail in obeying that which God has commanded.
Now compare the public record of the others. Only Barnabus, I think, could be considered to be free from an overly critical view, though I believe he erred due to his love for Mark.
And Paul set them straight.
And Paul set them straight.
And He did so because of the testimony of...Barnabus and Paul.
Okay, I have enjoyed it, Soulgazer. Have to get going and I think I may try to take a few days off, as I have a business to run, which I sometimes neglect due to the forums.
Hope you know that nothing I have said is for the purpose of offense, though I will not hesitate to yank a chain now and then or even sometimes...attempt humor. Now that is a subject for debate itself, lol.
I will see you soon, though, Lord willing.
God bless.
Hebrews 10:26-27,
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES
Here it says the fire consumes the adversaries. They are burned up, not eternally alive and burning, but consumed.
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
How can those without life be living forever in a lake of fire?
Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
Jude 10
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.
Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyones name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us, the lake of fire is the second death. If anyones name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death. It is not eternal living torment.
Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.
Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption (phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish.
The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.
Hebrews 10:26-27,
For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES
Here it says the fire consumes the adversaries. They are burned up, not eternally alive and burning, but consumed.
Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.
2 Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
Destruction, not eternal torment.
1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
How can those without life be living forever in a lake of fire?
Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.
Jude 10
But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed.
Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.
Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead.
The proof is written in large letters throughout the bible.
After the first sin, what was the promised consequence?
God said that it was death.
God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell.
If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve.
God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever.
Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead.
Well Pilgrim (I feel like John Wayne saying that)
I told you what the bible says. Nothing I said was anything other than what the bible says. The bible is the word of God. Feel free to disagree, for a while.
All of the confusion results from one thing. You believe that destruction doesn't really mean destruction. The serpent said "surely you will not die". That is the same thing as "surely destruction doesn't really mean destruction."
But I will never convince you, you will have to see it for yourself, and you will.
Did I say that? No.Are you then judging me to be in danger of hellfire?
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