You say that when a person perishes and becomes dead they remain conscious.
I would like to have you prove this.
I already have, in my view, but, nevertheless, I will focus on this central issue.
But first, I will address these statements, and then toward the end provide the scriptural basis for what seems to sound like a silly position.
So bear with me, lol.
Everyone I know that has perished and been dead has been completely unconscious.
But you are speaking of temporal death, Timothew. Consider, those you have known that have died...are they gone forever?
Do you not believe that those you believe were saved that have passed are with the Lord, and those that you are not sure about are in Hades? Awaiting judgment?
Or do you also subscribe to soul sleep, which might teach an unconscious state, but in no means teaches annihilation?
This is the single point, that if you will just understand that scripture teaches is a fact, then you will abandon the doctrine of annihilation. Just as all who ahere to this doctrine, they make a doctrinal pie of distinguishable facts. Death is death! as you have insisted. Destruction is destruction! As you have insisted. And no room is given to such considerations as man is already, at birth...dead. He is born separated from God.
The Lord came that He might give life, and until the Lord bestows that LIFE...one is dead.
If they were conscious they would object to being buried. (And especially the embalming. That right there would have be torture on a conscious person.)
In order to make this a statement worthy of consideration, one would also have to say that annihilation occurs upon physical death.
Is that your belief?
If it is not, then you will likely believe there is a conscious existence after physical death, and one either goes to be with the Lord or goes to Hades to await judgment.
So where do you stand?
When I die, if I am still conscious while I am dead, I'm going to ask the mortician to not embalm me.
No, you won't. When one dies one will either go to Heaven or to Hades.
This illustrates that the point I have tried to make is not being comprehended.
Since, as you claim, I will be conscious. In fact, since I will be conscious while I am dead, I'll just hop up and go fishing. Why not? If my boss calls, I have the perfect excuse. "I can't come to work today, I'm dead. I'll be in tomorrow."
Let me ask this: does one receive life when they are born again or not?
Let me give a counter-point to this biblical fact (that death and destruction does not mean cessation of existence and that one can be dead and conscious as well):
John 11:25-26
King James Version (KJV)
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Believers will
never...die.
Want to debate these words of the Lord? I know you will not,because I am going to guess that you believe this just as well as I do.
In v.25 we see reference to
physical death and in v.26 we see reference to
spiritual life.
How can both be true? Does the Lord contradict Himself? Not at all, He is declaring a spiritual truth which is not only foundational to our soteriology, but is foundational to a right conclusion upoon the fate of the damned.
Now, please prove that dead people are alive.
Be glad to:
As we see in the verse posted above, those that believe on the Son will never die. Why? Because they have the Life of Christ through regeneration.
Now consider those that do not have life, they are alive:
John 6
King James Version (KJV)
25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?
26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
I will try to keep my comments brief, as the scripture speaks for itself.
Here we see those that are disciples of Christ, following Him for the benefit of temporal gain (v.26).
In v.27 they are told not to seek after temporal gain, but to seek after that Bread which gives eternal life, that a man should not die. The children of Israel received "bread" (provision for life, temporal) in the wilderness. yet they died (physically). It is important to recognize that the Lord here contrasts physical life with eternal life.
In vv. 28-29 He tells them plainly, in answer to their question, how one can attain eternal life, by believing in Him.
And they confuse what the Lord is saying to them, confusing physical life as the intent of His words rather than eternal life. They are incredulous:
30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
They now desire a sign, that the Lord prove that what He says is true. They appeal to their relationship with God, and the provision
Moses gave Israel in the wilderness, which is in itself...error, which the Lord corrects:
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
The Lord refers to Himself...He is the source of Life. In the wilderness the life in view is temporal, the Bread from Heaven refers to provision for eternal life.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
Why does not the Lord commend these fine fellows for asking for the Bread of Life?
Why? Because He knew their hearts. And He pointedly calls them...unbelievers.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
This statement is erroneously taught that it will not be until resurrection that men receive eternal life, but that is put to rest in the next verse:
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Now we can strengthen the fact that those that believe on the Son have eternal life, not...will have eternal life. And we can see that in John 11:6, for example, posted above. The Lord would not say that men that do not believe have not life and those that do will never die...
For if they do not have life, they are already dead, right?
As always, unbelievers evidence the lack of life and the fact that they are not saved byeir words and deeds. Here we see their words. We will see their deeds in v.66:
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
And I will just condense the rest of the passage to highlight the point being made, as this is getting long (though I am confident that if you go back and look at this chapter you will see that nothing has been taken out of context).
Note-I did not condense it enough, lol, so I will have to...
...continue.