Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

Stealth001 · Oct 15, 2012

What would bring God more glory... the correction and refinment of His creation? Or if God created billions of souls knowing He'd vaporize them or leave them in a tortured existence forever in what tradition teaches us is "hell"???

Think about it. It's no brainer. If this is God...no wonder humanity has rejected Him... He'd be a monster. The truth is... humanity hasn't rejected God per se. Humanity is rejecting the traditional view of God that is primarily shaped by a Dark Age mentality regarding religious authority.

What "justice" would be served if a 16 year old Hindu girl who never heard the Gospel was cast into the lake of fire to burn forever or be vaporized???

The traditional views of Hell simply make no logical sense.

Stealth001 · Oct 15, 2012

Therefore, the way I see it, is that most believe that Hell is real. The question being asked today is with regards to Hell's purpose. Is Hell's purpose to torture the wicked throughout all eternity without end??? Is Hell's purpose to vaporize the wicked, vanquishing them forever? Or is Hell's purpose to correct, chasten, and purify the wicked, totally eradicating evil from God's creation forever, leaving all souls bowing before Him as a righteous, holy, and loving God???

Oh, Hell is real my friends. Oh, there is a fearsome lake of fire my friends. However, God is making all things new in eternity. And God will wipe every tear from our eyes as we see the glory of a universal redemption beyond anything tradition has ever fathomed!!!

When God is done... sin and Satan will have won nothing. God will settle for nothing less than TOTAL victory in ALL things.

Good News... God wins... and saves His creation.

Stealth001 · Oct 15, 2012

We read...

Matthew 3:10-12
King James Version (KJV)
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Friends, the world must know... all will be baptized before our God. No exceptions. They will either be baptized of water and Spirit now and thereby be born again. Or... they will be baptized by fire as a result of God's righteous and purifying judgment. Either way... ALL WILL be baptized. Hear the call of the Gospel... or face the flames that will MAKE you surrender to our Lord.

timbo3 · Oct 15, 2012

DrBubbaLove said:
No more evidence that a "god-particle" exists is not proof that it does or does not exist. One can only conclude there is no evidence either way.

To conclude that because Lazarus is recorded as saying nothing means only one potential possibility is picking from the silence what one wishes that silence to mean. It can simply mean he remembered nothing. Could also mean what he said about it was not recorded. Could also mean he was told to say nothing. Could even mean he did not experiece a normal transition. And yes, it could mean he was "just dead".

However, if he was "just dead" and no longer existed as a unique individual when he died, then other than looking and acting like the original, in what way could we say we know it was the same Lazarus after the miracle?
I will answer since no one supporting this view has ever explained otherwise: we cannot say it is the same person if we say the first Lazarus ceased to exist when he died.

That Lazarus was dead and silent during the 4 days that he was in the "memorial tomb" ("memorial tomb", Greek mnemeion, John 11:38, 39), even as the word dead indicates, Psalms 115:17 says that "the dead themselves do not praise Jah, nor do any going down into silence."

David wrote: "May the wicked ones be ashamed; May they keep silent in She´ol."("grave", King James Bible; Ps 31:17) Thus, Lazarus was dead, lifeless, silent, for the apostle John used the Greek word teteleutekotos at John 11:39, meaning "to finish life (by implication), i.e. expire."(Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the New Testament, G5053, "to have an end or close, come to an end; hence to die...Jn XI. 39 (John 11:39)", Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, pg 619)

The King James Bible reads "dead" at John 11:39 and Martha recognized that her brother was dead, having ' finished life ', for "by now he must smell, for it is four days."

Stealth001 · Oct 15, 2012

God isn't a Nazi. Our God is a consuming and refining fire.

Stealth001 · Oct 15, 2012

If countless billions are being born only to face being vaporized by their creator or to face unending torture at the hands of their creator... wouldn't abortion be a merciful and blessed thing securing the salvation of a vast number of souls???

someguy14 · Oct 15, 2012

Timothew said:
I believe that the lake of fire is the second death, just as the book says.
Nobody is allowed to take away from the book, as you say. So you can't take the part away that says "the lake of fire is the second death". Since it is the second death, it is NOT eternal conscious torment.

God. is. Life.

Timothew · Oct 15, 2012

someguy14 said:
God. is. Life.

Yes. I. Agree.

someguy14 · Oct 15, 2012

Stealth001 said:
God isn't a Nazi. Our God is a consuming and refining fire.

God is perfect and all that God says, goes.

someguy14 · Oct 15, 2012

Stealth001 said:
If countless billions are being born only to face being vaporized by their creator or to face unending torture at the hands of their creator... wouldn't abortion be a merciful and blessed thing securing the salvation of a vast number of souls???

Choice. God is perfect and blameless. Each being has a choice to accept God or reject God. God is perfect.

Timothew · Oct 15, 2012

Originally Posted by Stealth001

God isn't a Nazi. Our God is a consuming and refining fire.

someguy14 said:
God is perfect and all that God says, goes.

And since God says that He is a consuming fire and not a tormenting fire, that is what goes.

Perfect Gods don't torture children.

strangertoo · Oct 15, 2012

Soulgazer said:
As long as no one knows, and no one does....

but clearly God says otherwise - John 16:13, Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:10-11,etc

anyone who takes water baptism seriously, stops sinning, can know absolute Truth from God Himself...

then the only parts we know are valid are the parts that bear fruit.

others can see that the few know by the Love of all by the few saints of God, but who has ever met a saint in a world full of fake priests , still sinners working for Satan [whether they realise it or not]... one in three million is a saint of God and that is all God required of Jesus in this earth, enough pure in Love to set up an incorruptible kingdom come in the new earth and take them before ma destroys this earth with sin ...not a mass religion of sinners led by sinners to no more than death to free them from sin and start again...

Stealth001 · Oct 15, 2012

someguy14 said:
God is perfect and all that God says, goes.

Even if he lies right? Wrong. That's not a perfect God. Tradition might demand that such atrocity is right (as it did the inquisitions) but it's still wrong.

Stealth001 · Oct 15, 2012

someguy14 said:
God is perfect. Only those that aren't of God reject His perfection.

So why do you? lol

You presuppose that tradition gives you the angle of superiority. Ummm... a tradition that justified the inquisition because it's fires might bring one to repentance and save them from the fires of hell. Yeah right.

If you can't see that God is perfect in saving his creation and being absolutely victorious, losing nothing and no one... I guess your God is incapable of saving his creation? Right?

Mine's not.

Soulgazer · Oct 15, 2012

strangertoo said:
but clearly God says otherwise - John 16:13, Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8:10-11,etc

What is clear to me is that other people had different opinions that they ascribed to God, and those opinions were collected by those with like opinions.

I cannot unknow what I know. It would be simpler and I would fit in with the thundering herd if I didn't know that.

Had those that remained in political power---the church was an arm of Government in most of the world until fairly recently---not found the doctrine of hell expedient for controlling the masses, you might never have heard of it.

DrBubbaLove · Oct 15, 2012

Soulgazer said:
What is clear to me is that other people had different opinions that they ascribed to God, and those opinions were collected by those with like opinions.

I cannot unknow what I know. It would be simpler and I would fit in with the thundering herd if I didn't know that.

Had those that remained in political power---the church was an arm of Government in most of the world until fairly recently---not found the doctrine of hell expedient for controlling the masses, you might never have heard of it.

I think historically it is more accurate to say those in power in predominantly in the Government (and yes occassionaly in the Church) used the Church for their own purposes.

Since the idea of eternal torment predates a formal RC Church I think one would be hard pressed to be able to rewrite history to say the idea arose from a need to control people.

Soulgazer · Oct 15, 2012

DrBubbaLove said:
I think historically it is more accurate to say those in power in predominantly in the Government (and yes occassionaly in the Church) used the Church for their own purposes.

Since the idea of eternal torment predates a formal RC Church I think one would be hard pressed to be able to rewrite history to say the idea arose from a need to control people.

It was the church that chose the scriptures that promoted what they wanted promoted, and it was done after Constantine was converted. There were many scriptures in use, most of which have been lost to us.

Consider....if the asceticism of the Marcionite Christians had not been so unappealing to Constantine,(they were the dominant school to that point) the Temple scriptures would not be in use today, and there would be one Gospel,(The Gospel of the Lord) and fewer letters of Paul.

Another consideration....if Valentinius had been made Bishop of Rome as some people wanted.

Also, Constantine gave a legion of troops to the Church to enforce its rules........."resistance is futile"

The idea of an afterlife at all was not officially part of the Temple religion until 300BC, and was still in dispute when Jerusalem was burned. So no, the idea of the adoption of the Greek "Hell" was not a shoe in.

DrBubbaLove · Oct 15, 2012

Interesting spin to get the desired result.

But back to topic, still does not explain why it would be ok to kneel at mom's grave but horrible to do so in front of depiction of our Lord.

Soulgazer · Oct 15, 2012

DrBubbaLove said:
Interesting spin to get the desired result.

But back to topic, still does not explain why it would be ok to kneel at mom's grave but horrible to do so in front of depiction of our Lord.

It's all spin. You can't get away from it You're talking about a different thread; This is: Why some people don't believe hell is real

As long as you don't fall on your knees to worship the picture of your mother----we don't live under the law

Senecharnix · Oct 15, 2012

Timothew said:
Gehenna is not a place of torment. Jesus said to fear the one who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna. So Gehenna is a place where the body and soul are destroyed. It's actually a valley outside of Jerusalem where they used to have human sacrifices.

Also Josephus reported "that this valley was heaped with the dead bodies of Jews following the Roman siege of Jerusalem in A.D. 69-70." (Two Views of Hell page 42)

The account in Luke is not Gehenna or Hell. In the story the rich man is sent to Hades.

And Matthew 25:46 doesn't mention Hell at all.

You can keep deluding yourself all you wish. But I have been to Hell and seen for myself that countless people are being tormented in all sorts of nasty ways. Quite a few are being roasted over pit fires, while devils and demons poke them with spears. Many other people are strapped in torture machines similar to those that occupied the dungeons of inquisitors' torturers. Countless other people languish around the shores of the Lake of Fire...Many people who have suffered near-death experiences have reported similar accounts of their visits to Hell....

Why do some people think Hell isn't real?

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