Why do some men minimise or deny the reality of domestic violence?

[Paidiske]

Ah, now, that's not what I said. I didn't say male minimisation was the only or dominant factor. I was interested in it, not as part of the dynamics of the couple/family involved, but as a wider social phenomenon; ie. not why does the man who hits his wife minimise it, but why do uninvolved men minimise it as something which happens in our society?

Perhaps that was not clear.

 

[Zoii]

What dismays me is the defensiveness of men in this topic which only serves to solidify the argument of the good pastor. Nowhere do I see men like Greyy quoting statistics of a law enforcement agency. The using subjective opinion to attack the OP without any objective data only serves the whole point of this thread... donestic violence is a shameful male problem predominantly which in turn is shamefully minimised by too many men

 

[Zoii]

It seems you made an observation, then a faulty and albeit offensive hypothesis, and then sought confirmation of it.

Men abuse women who do not wish to be abused. And women abuse men that do not wish to be abused. Both sexes deny and minimalize the role of domestic abuse in relationships of family and friends. In many cases, abuse occurs because of a lack of resources, or knowledge of them. In some cases, relationships are abusive because both partners contribute to it. One of the hardest things about working with couples in abusive relationships is to get the victim help because of their fear, their minimalization of it, their contribution to it, or some mixture of these.

When you approach the issue of domestic violence with the belief that male minimalization is the only or dominate factor, you are will never deal with the issue.

Except you cant bring yourself to acknowledge that the overwhelming predominance of this problem is the assault on women by men... therefore just as the thread suggest... you minimize the problem. Why not google WHO or US law enforcements stats and come back n tell us what you found...... that this is a problem overwhelmingly of men assaulting their spouse

 

[Greyy]

Ah, now, that's not what I said. I didn't say male minimisation was the only or dominant factor. I was interested in it, not as part of the dynamics of the couple/family involved, but as a wider social phenomenon; ie. not why does the man who hits his wife minimise it, but why do uninvolved men minimise it as something which happens in our society?

Perhaps that was not clear.

Why are you assuming men are the only one minimizing it? Women minimize it too, in all areas of the relationship. That minimization makes the abusive relationship possible and enables it to continue with their children.

If you grow up in an abusive home, where the male is one the primarily involved in abuse, the female continually rationalizes it to her kids.

 

[Paidiske]

I am not talking about within the relationship/household. I am talking about a wider social phenomenon; men I have observed as fellow students, as colleagues (sadly), as commentators on the internet, (etc.), who when confronted with the statistics and the reality try to say that the problem is not as big as it is being presented as.

I have not observed women in the public sphere minimising the problem in the same way.

So my question is not about either the abuser, the abused or anyone in their household; it's about wider social commentary.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Minimization | Define Minimization at Dictionary.com
Minimization definition, to reduce to the smallest possible amount or degree.

------------------------------------
Minimisation (psychology) - Wikipedia
Minimisation is a type of deception
involving denial coupled with rationalisation in situations where complete denial is implausible. It is the opposite of exaggeration.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE="Paidiske, post: 69763820, member: 386627"]I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.

So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.[/QUOTE
No good at all comes from pretending.
In fact as seen for the last century ,
the world system is not set up for justice. Just the opposite in fact. It supports and encourages widespread and overall injustice, immorality and greed and oppression, with high up leaders and law enforcement often being protected culprits.

Israel when they were guided by YHWH and obeying Him had the benefit of His true ministration of justice , His Way, for a time;
as did the ekklesia assemblies in the New Testament,
and a few countries since the first century when they honored God's Word and knew experientially the Salvation Life in Jesus.

There are few places where God's Truth and Justice , Righteousness, is Faithfully administered, or even can be so: laws and practices and customs of men are skewed towards the flesh, towards carnal administration and "pretending" it is right or good somehow.

People everywhere are frustrated by this, and the poor and oppressed, women and men harmed by others and by the system, can hardly trust anyone these days - often who they trust , because of their title or position, is cause of more trouble and harm instead of being helpful. (and 'pretends' they are on their side; to maintain the illusion / the whitewashing/ that's been practiced so often and is rarely exposed.)

God's Word, God's Justice, God's Way, in Jesus, is true and faithful and righteous and healing for all. It's just not recognized nor practiced by many at all.

 

[Zoii]

QUOTE="Paidiske, post: 69763820, member: 386627"]I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.

So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.[/QUOTE
No good at all comes from pretending.
In fact as seen for the last century ,
the world system is not set up for justice. Just the opposite in fact. It supports and encourages widespread and overall injustice, immorality and greed and oppression, with high up leaders and law enforcement often being protected culprits.

Israel when they were guided by YHWH and obeying Him had the benefit of His true ministration of justice , His Way, for a time;
as did the ekklesia assemblies in the New Testament,
and a few countries since the first century when they honored God's Word and knew experientially the Salvation Life in Jesus.

There are few places where God's Truth and Justice , Righteousness, is Faithfully administered, or even can be so: laws and practices and customs of men are skewed towards the flesh, towards carnal administration and "pretending" it is right or good somehow.

People everywhere are frustrated by this, and the poor and oppressed, women and men harmed by others and by the system, can hardly trust anyone these days - often who they trust , because of their title or position, is cause of more trouble and harm instead of being helpful. (and 'pretends' they are on their side; to maintain the illusion / the whitewashing/ that's been practiced so often and is rarely exposed.)

God's Word, God's Justice, God's Way, in Jesus, is true and faithful and righteous and healing for all. It's just not recognized nor practiced by many at all.

Jeff.. can I offer some feedback please. I read your posts and it maybe just my unsophisticated knowledge of the bible, but I do find your posts hard to read in order to find the central point or argument. So... for people like myself, could you explain how your post relates to the OP

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So... for people like myself, could you explain how your post relates to the OP

By the author of the OP >>

So my question is not about either the abuser, the abused or anyone in their household; it's about wider social commentary.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I read your posts and it maybe just my unsophisticated knowledge of the bible, but I do find your posts hard to read in order to find the central point or argument.

Shalom, I don't think it is anyone's unsophisticated knowledge of the bible, per se, at all. Even people with no knowledge of the bible can sometimes see clearly, so no worries about that.
The rules we are constrained by , like in the court of law, reduces the effectiveness of truth and sometimes or often does not allow evidence to be introduced that would change the case totally.
Like the social system in place in most countries,
the truth may be restricted - or as they say in politics "must be politically correct" or suffer for it.

 

[Greyy]

I am not talking about within the relationship/household. I am talking about a wider social phenomenon; men I have observed as fellow students, as colleagues (sadly), as commentators on the internet, (etc.), who when confronted with the statistics and the reality try to say that the problem is not as big as it is being presented as.

I have not observed women in the public sphere minimising the problem in the same way.

So my question is not about either the abuser, the abused or anyone in their household; it's about wider social commentary.

Men and women are both victims of domestic violence, as children and adults. Women more easily associate themselves as victims.

 

[Zoii]

Men and women are both victims of domestic violence, as children and adults. Women more easily associate themselves as victims.

Except that in this topic, it is women that are the overwhelming victims which you would understand if you chose to review objective data. Since you seemed to be avoiding my reference to law enforcement data or the World Health Organization, I have attached a link from good ol' wikipedia. Perhaps thats more to your liking. please allow me to attach an extract:
Globally, the victims of domestic violence are overwhelmingly women, and women tend to experience more severe forms of violence
Domestic violence - Wikipedia

 

[Dave-W]

Except you cant bring yourself to acknowledge that the overwhelming predominance of this problem is the assault on women by men... therefore just as the thread suggest... you minimize the problem.

There is no way that the majority of those on the receiving end of DV are men. Just not there. And I think the numbers show it OVERWHELMINGLY men being violent to women and small children.

BUT - I do think the numbers are skewed, at least somewhat.
Violence against men; by women or children or other men, gets under-reported. It is against the "macho" code to acknowledge any weakness and being beaten up by someone is weak. And, at least here in the US, the police do not believe DV can work the opposite way.

My wife and I have been married almost 40 years, and we have had some serious fights along the way. Several got physical. But not by me. Just as when I was a kid getting beaten by bullies on the school yard, I did not even raise my hands to ward off or redirect the blows. And she once called the police and they almost arrested me for beating on her. I had 2 black eyes and bloody scratches; she - not one mark except on her knuckles. There were no charges, (she decided not to file) but the police were more than ready to charge me with beating her up.

Could I have filed charges against her? Of course. Would I do that? Never.
Had She decided to file charges against me, I would not have defended myself. And she knew that.

I say that ONLY to give example of why I think the numbers are skewed.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Given the system we are operating under, none of those sources can be trusted, and none of them provide a solution to what is truly a very big problem. (no denying there is a very big problem).

None of man's solutions has worked - they have only made things worse and made it harder to provide justice for everyone, men, women and children. Not only more difficult, but far worse for families and all the members of families, because the solution used by men is pernicious, not Biblical, not Godly nor right.

 

[Dave-W]

None of man's solutions has worked - they have only made things worse and made it harder to provide justice for everyone, men, women and children. Not only more difficult, but far worse for families and all the members of families, because the solution used by men is pernicious, not Biblical, not Godly nor right.

that is what happens when you try to accomplish God's work in the flesh.

 

[little1]

I have always been very curious about this myself. Even your question has bought up some guys who are doing what you are saying. Its very fascinating.