Why do some men minimise or deny the reality of domestic violence?

Paidiske

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I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.

So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.
 

SkyWriting

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I see this happen time and time and time again. The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home. So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it? I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.

I'm not confident that being outraged leads to eradication.
I don't recall that ever working.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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An unjust system with corrupt powers over men and women and children is
doing all it can to take advantage of all such without care about what's right and true.

Remember it is the same exact system/society that slaughters wantonly in war and at home so many innocents, that has been given more and more power to do what is wrong itself, instead of what is right, with no practical oversight or ability to properly administer any of its laws and powers.

It is the same system being summed up in the antichrists world system of control,
and it is patterned after the germans (as published openly in 1955 or thereabouts) police state,
not a godly country.
 
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Gordon Wright

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To maintain the narrative that family is good and holy, all evidence to the contrary must be rejected.

There are entire societies that literally make an idolatrous practice out of respect for family. It's taboo to say anything bad about your family publicly. It's just not done - but many horrible things are done behind closed doors.

I've been in churches where the selling point was they never got divorced. Then the preacher fell into disrepute, and suddenly everybody was getting divorced. They had been fed up with bad marriages for years, but stayed to maintain the narrative. When the narrative of the perfect church was no longer sustainable for unrelated reasons, there was no longer any reason to make this sacrifice.

There is a similar pattern in Confucian families. One precipitating event causes the family to lose face, and suddenly everyone stops trying to keep up appearances in general. There's no collective face left to protect anymore, and so no reason to be filial anymore.
 
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com7fy8

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when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home
Possibly, more women report abuse, than abused men report. Men in American culture maybe have had more physical roughness in their upbringing, so that they might not be so impressed by being hit, somehow.

Also, a woman can be more damaging, by her psychological ways, including the silent treatment and just not paying attention to what is being said to her. A man might be more physical.

my opinion . . . since I don't know personally about several billion of the people you might be talking about

why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?
I offered a little bit of why, above . . . in the United States. In some countries, possibly the abuse is not as bad as other things; so it does not impress even the victim, in comparison with other problems.

I know I have thought I was being smart, by doing or not doing certain things. I have needed for God to have me see. No one could only tell me. So, I can see that there can be men who think what they are doing is smart.

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.
Well, abuse is real. But also complaining and arguing are real, and they may not be treated like they are abuse, but they can deeply degrade people so people can get into severe depression which is much more painful and scary than being physically hit. And arguing can ruin a relationship, keeping people from finding out how to love.

Oh yes, by the way, there are men who simply do not know how to love. They can be a product of ones who did not truly love. So, part of the problem of abuse can be the whole way the abuser was brought up. So, just getting upset about the abuser can be neglecting to deal with the cause, as much as it came through the abuser's parents.

It can be that abuse is all the abuser has ever known, in his or her upbringing.
 
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com7fy8

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@Paidiske Now, Paidiske . . . you say men are the main abusers, statistically. So . . . who taught them to hit a woman? In the households, who usually got hit the most for being naughty? The boys? The girls? So, who learned that hitting is a means to one's end and to control? And who usually hit the boy the most? If the father was usually out, the mother could be the one who was hitting . . . teaching?? What do you think?

But in some households the mother told the boy to wait until the father got home, and the father whipped and beat the boy. But the boy knew the mother put him on hold for the father to do it. So, how might the mother have been teaching the boy to see her, a woman? I suppose he could learn to fear women so he might use hitting in order to try to somehow protect himself from his wife. Fear could have something to do with it. And the Bible does say >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

Also, "Love does no harm to a neighbor" (in Romans 13:10).

Yet, I know there are men who say that beating them taught them respect and restraint. So, it may be, that the character of parents and children could effect how ones do or do not benefit from physical discipline.

After all, if we as Christians go through hard things which hit us, we can either blame God that He is giving us a beating, or we can take it for refining and strengthening of our character.

It's what you make it, how you take it . . .
just don't you fake it :)

My parents were worldly people; but they did not depend on physical hitting; they used different methods. And they did it along with taking care of us and giving us a fair amount of personal attention and activities which we liked. So, if they started to getting mad or warned us to stop something, I think I would swing right into line because I did not want to miss out on how things had been fairly nice, plus I did not want to get hit. I think in my whole life I took one hit from my mother and one from my father, because they were efficient in how they did it. But their being effective with me only taught me to be careful while I was around them, and not to get caught. My character was there for me :sorry::sigh::sick:

Hebrews 12:4-11 says God "scourges every son whom He receives". And He said He would chasten Solomon "with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men", in 2 Samuel 7:14.

But unless God changes our character, nothing can work. Solomon was pretty smart, I would say, but that did not have him seeing how his trouble was coming because of doing what is wrong with women, among other things. And he was using those women, I would say, not really loving them. And men might blame the women, about how we can get into lust about them. But our weakness is our problem, but we might not like to admit this; so blaming can be our preference. And we might hit at what can get the better of us, exposing our deep weakness. But it's my own selfish nature's fault; I am the problem!!

So, I find it interesting how some number of people are only talking about changing practices and laws, but they are not saying anything about how we need to become in our character.
 
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Paidiske

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Actually, I think there is interesting work being done on forming character now. My church (at the diocesan level) is running a substantial project on primary prevention of domestic violence. The research it relies on (done by our state government health department; I have the report but am not aware if it is published online), shows that the main attitudes which tend to underlie domestic violence are:

- a culture where abuse/violence is accepted (and I guess that goes to your point about corporal punishment)
- rigid gender stereotypes and roles
- lack of gender equality.

So there is a lot of educational work being done, to show how these things are not a necessary part of Christian thinking, in an effort to reduce men's readiness to be abusive.
 
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com7fy8

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- rigid gender stereotypes and roles
- lack of gender equality.
Have you noticed how Paul and Silvanus and Timothy say they related with the Thessalonians?

In 1 Thessalonians 2:7 >

"as a nursing mother cherishes her own children"

And > > > in 1 Thessalonians 2:11 >

"as a father does his own children"

So, they did not limit themselves to either gender; but they used, I consider, the best of how a mother can be a mother, along with the best of how a father can be a father ! ! !

"But we were gentle among you, just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children." (1 Thessalonians 2:7)

"You are witnesses, and God also, how devoutly and justly and blamelessly we behaved ourselves among you who believe; and as you know how we exhorted, and charged, and comforted every one of you, as a father does his own children, that you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory." (1 Thessalonians 2:10-12)

So, by the way, Paidiske, I see how the focus of a father's discipline, here, is about his children sharing with our Heavenly Father in "His own kingdom and glory". This comes with example and exhortation and charging and comforting.

But if a father's focus has more to do with what he wants with his children, this can have him in inferior methods which are physical, in order to get physical results. And striking someone can be in order to keep physical control. Also, of course, arguing can come because of more of a physical orientation toward getting what is only physical pleasure and control.

There are people whose orientation and preference is really for pleasure, and not truly about gender whatever, but we can be into how we can use other people, instead of discovering how to love each and every person > we can pick and choose whom we use, and miss out on real loving > Matthew 5:46.

But the orientation of the godly mother and father, whom Paul and Silvanus and Timothy are talking about, is to seeking first God's own kingdom for their children . . . not only trying to get status and education and pleasures with security for keeping them.

But there are people whose preference is for pleasure; and if ones are preferring pleasure over seeking God for Himself (Hebrews 11:6, Matthew 11:28-30), this can get them into quite-away stuff with abusing themselves as well as each other.
 
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FireDragon76

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That OP is a pretty big sweeping generalization. I don't know that I buy it.

I also have to wonder about folks that want to frame this as an exclusively male problem, if it isn't just subconscious projection of their own hostile impulses: people that don't want to own their own aggression.

I do agree rigid gender roles can be a problem, but probably not for the reasons most feminists assume. Rigidity in general limits personal and spiritual growth and resilience.
 
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WolfGate

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I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.

So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.

I think in many cases it happens not because men minimize the severity of spousal abuse but because the statistics don't seem real to their circle of society. A statistic I read was that roughly 30% of women reported being abused by husband or boyfriend at some point in time. I do not recall exact statistics on percent of women who report being abused by their current husband or boyfriend but I think it was around 20%.

Most men (non-abusers) will look at the men around them and cannot see anywhere close to 20% of them being the "type" to abuse their partner. In their church, workplace, etc. - areas of influence - it appears the problem must be "out there" with some other groups of people. The men they know are much like them and say the right things and act the right way and would never abuse a woman, right? I mean, their society may be like 0.2% and "out there" it must be like 50%, right? Well, not so much. From my experience, women tend to be very quiet about abuse out of fear, and perhaps if they talk at all do so to other women who they trust will keep their problem in confidence. Inside the church, that is in my experience even more likely to happen. So giving money to women's shelters and other charities feels like as much as men can do in their sphere of influence.

And yes, when the first case of abuse in their circle of society comes public, it seems so out of character that in trying to reconcile what they are hearing with what they have observed many times men instead send the message to the abused that they do not believe what they heard. Creates a cycle.

That disconnect is real. I shared before that we had a pastor who it turned out was abusing his wife. When it became clear, there were three shocks for our elders. First was that our pastor was doing that - he showed no signs that we saw. Second was that several women in the church did know about the abuse, but had not brought it to us because they assumed we could tell what he was doing or they promised to keep it quiet. Third was the number of women in the congregation who, once it became public, were willing to state that they had also been abused.

Of course the 20% of men abusing (if I did remember right) aren't minimizing it but certainly are not going to focus on eradicating abuse.

Fixing the problem you state will take a lot of work and steps. Something catastrophic can certainly cause that to happen for a small group of people. Outside of that it will take a lot of work to help people understand that abusers can look and act just like those who do not abuse their spouse.
 
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Root of Jesse

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I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.

So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.
Define "abuse". Defining what it is, and what it is not, is very important. It is outrageous, to be sure, that any people abuse any other people. As in the other thread, women are not defenseless, though. They certainly stand to lose more when they take action, but abuse of people happens all the time. My wife is a prime target for abuse. Not physical abuse, or mental abuse, but people abuse her kindness and generosity, myself included. In my case, when I started living Ephesians 6 and the Beatitudes, my blindness was taken away, and I saw how I mistreated her. Now I see how family and friends will abuse her, and try to stop it.
As another said, being outraged is one thing, but only the abused can actually help themself. Their first step is to make it known to someone that they are in a bad situation and need help getting out of it.
 
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Paidiske

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Wolfgate, great post. I suspect you've hit the nail fairly squarely on the head for many.

Define "abuse". Defining what it is, and what it is not, is very important.

As another said, being outraged is one thing, but only the abused can actually help themself. Their first step is to make it known to someone that they are in a bad situation and need help getting out of it.

While I'm aware that there are other types of abuse - financial abuse, spiritual abuse - for the purposes of this thread, I'd be really happy if we could honestly acknowledge the level of physical abuse as a starting point.

I actually disagree that nobody can help someone who is being abused. I mentioned earlier the work my diocese is doing on this; one part of it is a great deal of what they're calling "active bystander" training; helping people to recognise and intervene in situations where they can make a difference.
 
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Kersh

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I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.

So why, instead of being outraged and working with us to eradicate this, do so many men seem to want to minimise or deny it?

I honestly don't understand what good comes of trying to pretend this isn't real.

DV is a multifaceted problem. Yes, there are many households in which men assault their femall partner. This is wrong, and should be addressed. There are also many households in which women assault their male partner who opts not to report it because he is ashamed. There are also households in which women assualt their female partner or where men assualt their male partner. There are also households where one partner routinely accuses the other of DV as a means of control. All of these other scenarios are no less evil than the the first, but these are largely ignored.
 
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Circle Christ

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I see this happen time and time and time again.

The statistics are there. They're not invented and they're pretty frightening, when we look at the reality of what proportion of women are abused in their own home.
I think what would help in this is if you put those statistics in here.
 
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WolfGate

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Circle Christ

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Great links as a start. Thank you both. :)

Here is a more recent study for Australia so as to give context to the difference between 2012 statistics of domestic violence and that of 2015.
Key facts
The following basic statistics help demonstrate the prevalence and severity of violence against women:
  • On average, at least one woman a week is killed by a partner or former partner in Australia.1
  • One in three Australian women has experienced physical violence, since the age of 15.2
  • One in five Australian women has experienced sexual violence.2
  • One in four Australian women has experienced physical or sexual violence by an intimate partner.2
  • One in four Australian women has experienced emotional abuse by a current or former partner.3
  • Women are at least three times more likely than men to experience violence from an intimate partner.4
  • Women are five times more likely than men to require medical attention or hospitalisation as a result of intimate partner violence, and five times more likely to report fearing for their lives.5
  • Of those women who experience violence, more than half have children in their care.6
  • Violence against women is not limited to the home or intimate relationships. Every year in Australia, over 300,000 women experience violence – often sexual violence – from someone other than a partner.7
  • Eight out of ten women aged 18 to 24 were harassed on the street in the past year.8
  • Young women (18 – 24 years) experience significantly higher rates of physical and sexual violence than women in older age groups.9
  • There is growing evidence that women with disabilities are more likely to experience violence.10
  • Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women experience both far higher rates and more severe forms of violence compared to other women.1

I admit when I read the topic title of this discussion I was thinking the material would pertain to men's physical abuse in domestic violence situations. These statistics at the link do refer to those as well. Abuse is never OK for anyone.

In the 2012 link that you posted it is shocking to read that according to the numbers of abuse tallied between the years 2008 and 2010 to about one woman per week dying at the hands of someone in their house. :(
 
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Root of Jesse

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Wolfgate, great post. I suspect you've hit the nail fairly squarely on the head for many.



While I'm aware that there are other types of abuse - financial abuse, spiritual abuse - for the purposes of this thread, I'd be really happy if we could honestly acknowledge the level of physical abuse as a starting point.

I actually disagree that nobody can help someone who is being abused. I mentioned earlier the work my diocese is doing on this; one part of it is a great deal of what they're calling "active bystander" training; helping people to recognise and intervene in situations where they can make a difference.
My point was that nobody can help unless it's made apparent to them, either by the victim making it known, or if it's in public, which is rare. There is also a point where someone can be seen as invading a family's personal space. It's ok to forcefully extract someone from an abusive situation, but unless and until they want to be extracted from it, they will go back and it will continue. The first step in any problem resolution is recognizing that you have a problem. Second is doing something about it, even if it is just enlisting help from a friend or from authorities.
 
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