Why do people think Romans 9 is about absolute individual predestination?

Dr. Jack

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If I understand what you are alluding to . . . you are offering that we should reject the plain and literal meaning of what Paul writes, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (wherein individuals referred to by name, and subsequent references employing singular pronouns) in favor of an allegorical interpretation?

It's a bit surreal that someone would make such an argument to defend a dispensational theological position against a Reformed/Covenantal view.
When Paul wrote the inspired words of God, he wrote ...

9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Romans

Paul was referring to this text, written by Moses ...

4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Exodus

The PURPOSE of God's hardening was Pharoah's heart is clearly presented in the narrative ...

"but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go"

This has NOTHING to do with predestination; therefore it is Reformed Theology that is inserting predestination into the narrative.
 
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msortwell

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When Paul wrote the inspired words of God, he wrote ...

9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Romans

Paul was referring to this text, written by Moses ...

4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Exodus

The PURPOSE of God's hardening was Pharoah's heart is clearly presented in the narrative ...

"but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go"

This has NOTHING to do with predestination; therefore it is Reformed Theology that is inserting predestination into the narrative.

First . . . It seems clear that you believe that you have made a point with the text you cited, but you will have to actually EXPLAIN what YOU believe it means, and in what way it conflicts with the Reformed position.

Second . . . Just to be clear, the 9th chapter has to do with unconditional election rather than predestination. THAT God sovereignly chooses, not WHEN God chooses.
 
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Dr. Jack

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First . . . It seems clear that you believe that you have made a point with the text you cited, but you will have to actually EXPLAIN what YOU believe it means, and in what way it conflicts with the Reformed position.

Second . . . Just to be clear, the 9th chapter has to do with unconditional election rather than predestination. THAT God sovereignly chooses, not WHEN God chooses.
That is the point. God did chose to harden Pharoah's heart ... for the purpose stated in the narrative. The narrative of Exodus 4 is NOT election for salvation, It does however show the sovereignty of God in that He can, and does chose to use whomsoever He wishes, in the way He wishes.

In Romans 9, Paul addressed the fact that God chose to use the bloodline of Israel to bring forth Christ. God also chose Israel to be those who were to be His representatives to the heathen.

They failed miserably. God chose to use Pharaoh, a worldly king to show His own people, and the Egyptians Who He was/is.

God in His sovereignty chose to harden Pharoah's heart ...

9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Romans

Compare ...

4:21 And the LORD said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. Exodus

By God hardening Pharoah's heart that he didn't let the people go, did God not shew my [His] power in thee, and that my [His] name might be declared throughout all the earth?

That has NOTHING to do with either Unconditional Election or Predestination.
 
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ralliann

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If I understand what you are alluding to . . . you are offering that we should reject the plain and literal meaning of what Paul writes, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (wherein individuals referred to by name, and subsequent references employing singular pronouns) in favor of an allegorical interpretation?

It's a bit surreal that someone would make such an argument to defend a dispensational theological position against a Reformed/Covenantal view.
I do not even know what I think on these things. It was a sincere inquiry.
 
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