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Featured Why do People Fight so hard for Their Own Free Will ?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by John tower, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    And where in scripture is that taught?
     
  2. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Yes offended indeed and arrogant to think that man, a creature, has any say whatsoever on how God deals with His creation. I have yet to see how they interpret Romans 9.
     
  3. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Throughout scripture... when you reconcile the scriptures that talk about man's (free) will and predestination of or by God...

    Guess some of you don't know how to do that though...?

    God Bless!
     
  4. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why you assume this if it’s not scriptural
     
  5. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Nah this is mans sinful tendency. To elevate himself as god. Definitely not scriptural
     
  6. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Look I'm not gonna dig up "all the scriptures" and connect "all" the dots for you...

    But, if you wish to provide me with some or the scriptures that say it's absolute either way, I'll try to explain it, without it turning into an entire book, on the subject, K...?

    God Bless!
     
  7. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    K, again, you explain to me why you think God is in control of "every little thing", and I'll respond, K...?
     
  8. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Gods commanding doesn’t equate to mans ability. You make the same God dishonoring claims as Pelagius. So amazed how this heresy is so widely accepted today. And how ignorant so many who promote free will sovereignty are blind to the fact they hold and believe this heresy
     
  9. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Nah you are the one who said God doesn’t. So you prove from scripture God isn’t in control of every little thing
     
  10. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    I see no scripture in there...?

    Guess that must be your (own) (man's) reasoning or logic then, right...?

    How is it God dishonoring again...?

    Cause I think your point of view is...

    God Bless!
     
  11. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    God has ordained and decreed all things, including evil
     
  12. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Reread the thread and many other threads relating to this topic. I’m sure I’m casting pearls before swine
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    If he was, (as I have said over and over and explained in this thread already), a perverted view of God's (absolute, extreme) sovereignty, leads to God being absolutely responsible for everything, including man's (our) sins, meaning God is the guilty one...

    Are you claiming that... Cause you basically are...

    And, if your not claiming that, can you explain how you "are not" claiming that...?

    The burden of proof is on you, so you provide the scripture and I'll try to explain, if not, then I'm done here...

    I would direct you to my posts #44, 47, 48, 49 for explanations, and also #158, 159, 225, 229, 231, 237,and 238 for the rest, along with many other responses by many other in and throughout this thread...

    God Bless!
     
  14. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Your saying he (God) is the cause and source of all evil, and we are completely innocent of any and all wrongdoing...?
     
  15. Philip_B

    Philip_B all shall be well and all shall be well and ... Supporter

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    If I stand in the sun and consider my shadow is it right to think that I have created the shadow or that the sun has created the shadow?

    I know that might be a bit Jungian but there you go.
     
  16. MDC

    MDC Well-Known Member

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    Like I said you make the same claims any sinner would make. Romans 9, Paul rebukes such assertions and arrogance by anticipating your question. Although God decrees, man carries out what is decreed of him willingly. So therefore held accountable for his own sinful desires and actions. As in the case with Pharaoh. And the example of those evil men who carried out Christ’s murder. Is God unjust? Has not the potter have the right to do as He pleases with the clay? According to you He doesn’t. What is meant for evil in man, God means it for good
     
  17. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    So, God knows what we are going to choose, before we choose it...? How does that make God (and not us) accountable...?

    In the case of the example of Pharaoh... God knew that he (Pharaoh) was going to choose wrong or evil before he was going to choose it... So, he (God), let him (Pharaoh), choose the evil (and set that evil before him) that he (Pharaoh) was (already) set or had purposed, in his (Pharaoh's) heart to do, and he (Pharaoh), chose it, correct...?

    But, how is that a choice...? And... Is that the case with "everybody", or just some...? (And I already tried to explain in another post how I thought that could be so with "some" but not necessarily "all") (apparently I did not make that point clear enough, I guess)...

    Cause if it was "all" then that does not change the fact that if it is truly "all" (and not just the specific ones, (or things) God chooses)... Then God is guilty (of all) and we are not, but are innocent, and that, I just will not believe...

    I believe he purposes that with "some", but not "all", and not everyone, everybody, and certainly not everything... But "some" (people, places, things)... And, not "all", cause that would make him (God) guilty (of all)...

    What do you say to this...?

    God Bless!
     
  18. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    BTW, even Paul himself said He "had not counted himself to, as of yet, to have fully apprehended" (all)... yet... when he (they) was/were writing about such things...

    So, some of it, is left to us to figure, find, or search out... But, only, according to, or based upon (the foundations of) what they (back then) wrote, or wrote about...

    God Bless!
     
  19. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

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    Or how do you explain (cause I think Paul did know something about this) where Paul said things like "We (those chosen by God, chosen vessels of his) are slaves, but you (who are not) are free...?" And, "whatever state in which each one was called, let him so remain in it...?" (In Christ) (In the express will of God)... "Whether slave, or free"...

    (having trouble finding the specific scriptures, but, bear with me and I will try to find them...)

    (maybe someone could help me maybe...?) (I know they are there...)

    These touch on it... (1 Corinthians 7:21-24) (1 Corinthians 12:13) (Romans 6) (Ephesians 6:8) but may not be the exact ones I am looking for...

    And, after these things (are realized)...? (Galatians 3:28) (Colossians 3:11)...

    And lets not forget, (after these things are realized) (or apprehended or come to)... "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make or set you free." (of this)... (John 8:32)... (So that, "you now choose", and make your (own) choice(s) from there)...

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  20. Micah888

    Micah888 Well-Known Member

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    You will be for ever talking past those who make God responsible for all the sin and evil in the world and claim they are upholding God's *sovereignty*.

    There is no question that God does decree some things. But no one who knows the Word of God will ever dare claim that God decrees wickedness in any way, shape, or form.

    A decree is an enactment, a statute, a law, an ordinance, or a commandment of God (Strong's 2706). Who would dare accuse God of commanding wickedness, sin, and evil?
     
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