Why do people disagree on the condition(s) for salvation?

[Phil W]

And, a little further in...
Romans 7
"14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do."

This is Paul's remembrance of his prior life in the flesh, as a Jewish Pharisee.

*The whole "already and not yet*.
*Galatians 5:17
For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.

I'ld advise folks to walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
We can't walk in both.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
Are we Christ's?

 

[Phil W]

I'm assigning nothing. The new spirit that God gives us does not sin. But if we say we have no sin, we lie and the truth is not in us. When John wrote those words, he was writing to born again Christians. You can't just pick and choose Bible verses to suit your own ideas. You need the whole counsel of God. The fact is that Christians are still able to sin. I've never met anyone who has never sinned from the day that they were born again. Your belief makes out that a good deal of the New Testament is a lie.

John was writing about two very different kinds of men and their very different kinds of walk.
Some of 1 John 1 is in regard to those walking in darkness, sin, and other parts regard those walking in the light, God; wherein is no sin.
Those who walk in darkness (sin) are the ones who cannot say they have no sin, or that they have fellowship with God.
But if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ has washed away ALL our sins.
From that point on, it in our ability to remain in the light.
Those called Christians are "able to sin", but it would mean they are not born of God or that they are really Christians.
It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)

 

[redleghunter]

Yet He said His church is built upon the foundation of God's truth, not of man. That was the point of His question.

The Truth is built on the confession Peter made that we all must make.

 

[Phil W]

How are there any members then?
Are you perfect Phil?

Yes, if by perfect you mean freed from sin. (Rom 6:7)

 

[timothyu]

The Truth is built on the confession Peter made that we all must make.

What? That Jesus said 'Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.' ... ' upon this rock I will build my church' That truth comes from the Father and not from man? That was His point... not who He was.

 

[Salvadore]

Yes, if by perfect you mean freed from sin. (Rom 6:7)

So, you do not need to ask forgiveness any longer?

 

[redleghunter]

What? That Jesus said 'Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.' ... ' upon this rock I will build my church' That truth comes from the Father and not from man? That was His point... not who He was.

Once again you introduced a point after you were shown you were incorrect.

 

[Neogaia777]

Whether one is saved or not is of utmost importance. Why can Christians not agree on this topic?

As to the OP title question or statement, mainly because people disagree on mankinds ability to judge one another for sure or with 100% absolute surety, or 100% totally and truly justly, etc, and think that only God, or only one who is claiming to be God, can have that exclusive right or position or kind of authority, etc...

Anyway, I think that is one of the main and/or primary issues involved, etc...

And there are a lot, "a lot", of people on here trying to be or play or claiming to be God, whether they are fully aware of that fact or not, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

John was writing about two very different kinds of men and their very different kinds of walk.
Some of 1 John 1 is in regard to those walking in darkness, sin, and other parts regard those walking in the light, God; wherein is no sin.
Those who walk in darkness (sin) are the ones who cannot say they have no sin, or that they have fellowship with God.
But if we walk in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ has washed away ALL our sins.
From that point on, it in our ability to remain in the light.
Those called Christians are "able to sin", but it would mean they are not born of God or that they are really Christians.
It is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
It is written..."We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not." (1 John 5:18)

1 John in the entirety of his or that book, makes it very clear elsewhere in it of both the command or commandments he is speaking of, and the sin or sins he is speaking of also, and it is mostly about love vs hate, etc, but your twisting it the way you want and for it to be, etc...

Anyway, caught you in the sin of lying or being decptive yet again @Phil W...

Anyway,

God Bless!

 

[timothyu]

after you were shown you were incorrect.

In what way?

 

[redleghunter]

Let’s review the main points.

Since Jesus Christ walked the earth, the question has always been the same:

Jesus asks: “Who do you say that I am?”

Then you responded.

Yet His point was not who He was but who's truth we were to follow, the Father's or man

The entire questioning in Matthew 16:13-16 is about Who Jesus is.

Matthew 16: NASB

13Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” 14And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.” 15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

 

[Phil W]

So, you do not need to ask forgiveness any longer?

No, thanks be to God.
By the grace and provision of God I have killed the old man with the affections and lusts and been reborn with Christ to walk in newness of life.
I am a new creature.

 

[timothyu]

The entire questioning in Matthew 16:13-16 is about Who Jesus is.

I strongly disagree. It is about where truth comes from. It is about building the church on the truth of the Father, not of man. Too bad Christians are not more discerning in realizing man kinda took over the church but the truth of the Father is still there.

 

[redleghunter]

I strongly disagree. It is about where truth comes from. It is about building the church on the truth of the Father, not of man. Too bad Christians are not more discerning in realizing man kinda took over the church but the truth of the Father is still there.

I guess you can disagree on what is actually written.

 

[Phil W]

1 John in the entirety of his or that book, makes it very clear elsewhere in it of both the command or commandments he is speaking of, and the sin or sins he is speaking of also, and it is mostly about love vs hate, etc, but your twisting it the way you want and for it to be, etc...
Anyway, caught you in the sin of lying or being decptive yet again @Phil W...
Anyway,
God Bless!

I haven't twisted anything.
It is written in plain English..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Why can't one who is walking in the light, God, say he has fellowship with God and has no sin?
I'm not walking in darkness anymore.
Thanks and glory to God and His Son Christ Jesus.

 

[timothyu]

I guess you can disagree on what is actually written.

Not so.. and in context to boot.

A lot of people have trouble seeing it properly because their church has taught them something other than God's truth simply because the church was built upon man's version of the truth. In this way they were able to avoid following the Kingdom of God, instead setting up a kingdom of their own in their own image and by their own rules here in earth. How else could a church claiming to represent the Kingdom/governance of God, instead takes sides with the governance of Rome and other worldly governments until today. They betrayed the Kingdom instead of acting in it's ways, yet still preach their own form of salvation that self justifies their betrayal. They used God to become a power and an oppressor, rather than teach we must change and live by the will of God, not man.

 

[Neogaia777]

I haven't twisted anything.
It is written in plain English..."But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
Why can't one who is walking in the light, God, say he has fellowship with God and has no sin?
I'm not walking in darkness anymore.
Thanks and glory to God and His Son Christ Jesus.

He says that the commandment is/are "Love", and that the one walking in darkness and not love (or the light) is the one still hating his brother or neighbor, etc, which is sin against the commandments of Love, etc, in it's context of course, etc...

He did not mean one would not ever sin in other ways or have other kinds of sins still sometimes, or that they would never again ever get tripped up anymore by them or some of them ever again, etc, just that the commandment to and about Love (vs hate) etc, still needed to be perfectly kept and/or obeyed, etc... Or that one is walking in darkness and not in the light, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Salvadore]

Phil, I am a bit concerned about your reply re: asking God for forgiveness. Asking forgiveness is very humbling. There is something about it in the Lord's prayer.

Oh, I just read your latest post. I will try to understand what you are trying to say.

 

[anna ~ grace]

What is your position on salvation?

That our salvation is a journey, in which God's grace saves us through our faith in Christ, and our obedience to Christ, both of which we can only do with God's help. So, it's not just about faith, but discipleship, nor is it a one-time thing, but an unfolding thing.

 

[timothyu]

If God showed up today, He would ignore those who waited until His arrival to give up their power and will (if they even do) and turn it over to Him, the new governor. He would look to those who gave it up long before, putting His will before our own in their lives.