Why do people disagree on the condition(s) for salvation?

[Phil W]

Too many do not know the difference between the initial, born again experience and the ongoing "salvation of the soul". Being born again is instant and costs nothing. To experience the salvation of the souls costs everything you are and takes a lifetime. "Salvation" has become a code word for not going to hell when you die. It really means deliverance from the old nature, sin, self, Satan and the world system.

Why does it take a life-time when Jesus has already conquered sin?

 

[Phil W]

Right, so as long as we are in this body of death, we remain sick and, therefore, remain in the condition required for salvation.

The body of death is destroyed in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
It happens at our "immersion" into Christ's death and burial.

 

[Phil W]

Yes. Those who are born again have the great opportunity to be set free, but we never reach perfection in this life.

I couldn't disagree more.
You are assigning sin to those reborn of God's seed.

 

[HTacianas]

So what?
If a doctrine accommodates sinful behavior it is not "submission to God".

The JWs don't tolerate sin and will excommunicate a member.

 

[Sabertooth]

Even though Jesus purchased the salvation of His people by His life and His death, we still feel like we need to contribute in some way.

Surrendering is an act of the will. And He DOES place a burden/a yoke upon us, but it is more bearable than the one He takes away.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me,
for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30 NKJV

 

[Tone]

The body of death is destroyed in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
It happens at our "immersion" into Christ's death and burial.

And, a little further in...

Romans 7
"14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do."


*The whole "already and not yet".


*Galatians 5:17
For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want.

 

[truthisfreedom2019]

(Luke 17:33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it; and whoever loses his life will preserve it.) My thoughts are to love God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul. Worry not about your life but make God your everything for every moment.

 

[redleghunter]

Since Jesus Christ walked the earth, the question has always been the same:

Jesus asks: “Who do you say that I am?”

 

[redleghunter]

Jesus also said in John 3:

4Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” 5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7“Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8“The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[timothyu]

Since Jesus Christ walked the earth, the question has always been the same:

Jesus asks: “Who do you say that I am?”

Yet His point was not who He was but who's truth we were to follow, the Father's or man;s.

 

[redleghunter]

Yet His point was not who He was but who's truth we were to follow, the Father's or man;s.

No the passage does not say that.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Whether one is saved or not is of utmost importance. Why can Christians not agree on this topic?

There should be one common thread
if not we've got a problem.

Through Christ alone.
It ain't me.
M-Bob

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
web.mit.edu › jywang › www › cef
Bible Gateway John 3 :: NIV - MIT

 

[royal priest]

Surrendering is an act of the will. And He DOES place a burden/a yoke upon us, but it is more bearable than the one He takes away.

"Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me,
for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30 NKJV

Yes
Even though God tells us we are saved by faith, His moral expectation remains the same: be perfect as your Father is perfect.
The burden of that standard is infinitely more bearable for a Christian because his salvation does not depend on this need to be perfect, but on the forgiveness he receives because of Christ's perfection.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I couldn't disagree more.
You are assigning sin to those reborn of God's seed.

I'm assigning nothing. The new spirit that God gives us does not sin. But if we say we have no sin, we lie and the truth is not in us. When John wrote those words, he was writing to born again Christians. You can't just pick and choose Bible verses to suit your own ideas. You need the whole counsel of God. The fact is that Christians are still able to sin. I've never met anyone who has never sinned from the day that they were born again. Your belief makes out that a good deal of the New Testament is a lie.

 

[timothyu]

No the passage does not say that.

Yet He said His church is built upon the foundation of God's truth, not of man. That was the point of His question.

 

[Salvadore]

Yep, you are using 1 Cor 15:1-4 for that belief which is correct.

The main confusion is that some Christians read what Jesus said in the 4 Gospels, and they are confused because some of what he said seems to imply that they need to do works in order to be saved.

Some of these include Matthew 7:21 and Luke 10:25-37

Good works are a side-effect of having a change in attitude. I would be surprised if a Christian didn't do something good after being given such a gift as salvation. Christians should not argue about salvation by faith alone or faith plus good works. If a Christian doesn't want to do something good for the world, he or she should ask God for help and read the Bible. There are lots of opportunities!

 

[Salvadore]

The JWs don't tolerate sin and will excommunicate a member.

How are there any members then?

 

[Salvadore]

The JWs don't tolerate sin and will excommunicate a member.

How are there any members then?

I couldn't disagree more.
You are assigning sin to those reborn of God's seed.

Are you perfect Phil?

 

[Phil W]

The JWs don't tolerate sin and will excommunicate a member.

But how many other doctrines do they have that thwart the love of God?
Ask any JW if he commits sin, and I can almost guarantee he will reply in the affirmative.

 

[Salvadore]

Edited; I hope someday we can all agree on this topic. It's important, and I hope that more and more souls will look into this issue deeply.

What is your position on salvation?